Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
Holy shit!
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Going mechanical with a Moose Omega Marine IP
- Thread starter n8in8or
- Start date
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity Dog!!!
TAG
Member
HOLY SMOKES NATE!!!! On winter fuel yet! You da man!!
pacificdrumma
Well-Known Member
John @ unique diesel had previously recorded 304rwhp. Aside from him, I don't know of any CREDIBLE hp claims.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
Which means of course that you could very easily be approaching 400hp at the crank!
Be interesting to see how close all the pulls are...
Ratman
6.5 Diesel NUTCASE
With the auto trans, I would have to say that you are probably 100% correct sir!!
Congrats to Nate on this awesome endeavor! The persistence and motivation involved in this project is really something amazing as we all know.
Nate, my hat is off to you!
Rich.
uniquediesel
1/4 mi. Fan
- Messages
- 245
- Reaction score
- 38
Good work. I knew when I saw your videos of the acceleration that you'd take the new record. My truck hasn't run in 4 years, lots changed in my life so everything has been in storage.
Those are some awesome numbers.
Those are some awesome numbers.
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
AWESOME!
- Staff
- #770
What correction factor was used? Did they connect a rpm sensor to the harmonic balancer? Your numbers figuring a 15% drivetrain loss(pretty close to what you would expect from a 4l80e locked in 3rd) would be a little over 400 at the flywheel, and around 725 for torque. That's pretty well inline I believe with peninsular's top output 6.5l. At 2900-3000 rpm's you should be pushing around 130-140 cc's of fuel based off your numbers, so that's inline with idi efficiency.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
How much did you pull back is what I am wondering. Pulled back the boost, puff limiter stealing some juice, and -winter blend fuel-really? Anything else I'm missing here.
I wonder what the heck you could do with a p400 and a fat budget!!
I wonder what the heck you could do with a p400 and a fat budget!!
Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
AND add WMI to that!
Great work Nate, makes all the work feel good me thinks...
I'm guessing you have video coming when ya finish celebrating ....
A new bar has been set for the rest of us...
I'm guessing you have video coming when ya finish celebrating ....
A new bar has been set for the rest of us...
n8in8or
I never met a project I didn’t like
Hi guys! Thanks for all the encouragement. Sorry about the delay, but now I'm ready to share everything. I'm going to start on my phone because it's easier to share pictures, then I'll switch to the computer and do videos and more typing. I'm going to have to do multiple posts, so bear with me.
Here are some pics of the hoe on the dyno
Here are some pics of the hoe on the dyno
n8in8or
I never met a project I didn’t like
Here are screen shots and print outs from each run. Sorry about the quality, I just took pictures of them so I could get them posted. When I get to work Monday I'll scan them and get them posted proper.
Run 1:
Run 2:
Run 3:
Run 4:
Run 1:
Run 2:
Run 3:
Run 4:
n8in8or
I never met a project I didn’t like
Ok, I'm on the computer now. The first thing I should tell you is that the dyno operator let me drive the truck during the pulls! It was a pretty surreal experience. It's weird not moving and yet the speedo says you're doing 80! That's also why Run #2 is shorter than the others. In the first run, it was kind of sensory overload and I finally realize, "hey dummy, it isn't gaining any rpm, let off!!". So in the second run I was a little more "with it" and when it sounded like it wasn't gaining more I let off.....well I let off too soon. Finally for runs 3 and 4 I was deliberately watching the tach and I wasn't letting off until I hit about 3650. It was weird, it would quickly get up to about 3100 and then just creep up the rest of the way.
There's something else I should share about the tach signal too: we weren't able to get it to run off of the crank sensor. And I didn't think to bring my Ferret timing adapter, so we used the roller speed to calculate RPM. This worked reasonably well since I had my converter in full lockup, but I'm sure there was some descrepancy in actual RPM and what was being recorded. In fact, after the 3rd run we could smell burning rubber from tire slippage, so we aired down the tires to get a little better grip. He was out of VHT compound to make the rollers more sticky. Next time I run, I'll bring the timing adapter.
Regardless of that, it definitely was only pulling hard until about 3000-3100 and I expected it to pull hard until about 3500-3600 based on the fuel curve of the pump. Well, my fuel supply isn't a rock-solid 25psi all the time, which is what the IP is calibrated for....and based on conversations with Joel, it was on the top end that the inlet pressure made the biggest difference, so I'm sure that's where my top end power went. Unfortunately I didn't watch the fuel pressure gauge during my runs, so I have no idea how low it went during the runs. On the way home though, during just a gentle roll-on, the pressure dipped to 19psi, so it was at least that low, and likely lower, during the dyno pulls. Moral of the story there: I have more power left in this configuration if I can get a better fuel supply system going!
Oh yeah, another thing about the dyno. So the way a Mustang dyno decides how much to load the engine is by vehicle weight. It must try to recreate a real world situation by allowing the rolls to accelerate as fast as the car would accelerate based on the weight...........or something, dunno. So the first run had the true weight of the truck which is 5700 pounds. Since I only saw about 22 pounds of boost he added another 5000 pounds of vehicle weight to the calcs. That seemed to help as torque went up a little, but still not a ton of boost. He ended up adding 5000 more pounds for run 3 and the torque went up even more. You can watch the vids and see that I only hit about 23-24 pounds of boost during the runs, so it wasn't loading the turbo as much as I can in the real world. Having said that, you can also see in one of the videos that the exhaust is really clean, so I don't think I needed more boost anyway. Now if I had all of my fuel supply, then maybe the rest of that boost (air) would have helped? That will be determined in future runs.
Ha, so yeah....seeing the exhaust. You know I made a vent tube for the run. Well while getting it hooked up and run out the door my dad was pulling on it to try to get the most length out of it and he pulled the stuff right apart at the first bend! I don't know if you've ever worked with this stuff, but it's just a strip of aluminum wound in a spiral and crimped together, so if you pull too hard you can pull the crimp right apart. No biggie, I brought some duct tape with me, just in case. Well if you look closely in the first video you'll see it blow apart at the duct tape, ha! So the other runs after that were run without a tube. The guy was really cool about it. He was expecting Cummins-like smoke, so the fact that the 6.5 doesn't do that helped in this situation. Oh and that's also why you'll see something that looks like an exhaust tip on my tailpipe - that's the 4-6 adapter for the ductwork still on my tailpipe. I'll make something more robust for future runs.
Ok, I think that's all I can think to type, so now it's time for videos! I took EGT & Boost videos for each run since I was driving and then my brother took videos from the outside for each run. The process we used for the runs is to slowly get up to the speed where my converter would lock in 3rd gear, then I'd drop rpm a little, then ease up to 2000 rpm before hitting it. Again, this was a really cool experience driving it myself!! Although seeing it from the outside could have been really cool as well. Oh yeah, speaking of EGT....it was a lot lower than I expected! So was that because I wasn't hitting the boost level I normally do, or is it the new air filter? I've hit 1250 getting on the highway unloaded, no problem, in the past. Honestly I haven't thought to look at EGT when driving around since air filter installation so I'll need to do that. Maybe the Donaldson filter was really that much of a restriction? If so, I am SO glad I put the aFe one in!!
VIDEOS:
Run 1 EGT & Boost
Run 1 Outside (this is when the tube blows off)
Run 2 EGT & Boost (you can see how I let off earlier)
Run 2 Outside (you can see how I let off earlier)
Run 3 EGT & Boost
Run 3 Outside (this one was from behind so you can see the exhaust)
https://youtu.be/_umWKVHwM5Q
Run 4 EGT & Boost
https://youtu.be/-C2xUFbG610
Run 4 Outside (my brother recorded the dyno screen during the run)
https://youtu.be/NW6vrrPlIzY
I think I've covered everything. If I think of anything else I'll be sure to share. Thanks for following along with me!
There's something else I should share about the tach signal too: we weren't able to get it to run off of the crank sensor. And I didn't think to bring my Ferret timing adapter, so we used the roller speed to calculate RPM. This worked reasonably well since I had my converter in full lockup, but I'm sure there was some descrepancy in actual RPM and what was being recorded. In fact, after the 3rd run we could smell burning rubber from tire slippage, so we aired down the tires to get a little better grip. He was out of VHT compound to make the rollers more sticky. Next time I run, I'll bring the timing adapter.
Regardless of that, it definitely was only pulling hard until about 3000-3100 and I expected it to pull hard until about 3500-3600 based on the fuel curve of the pump. Well, my fuel supply isn't a rock-solid 25psi all the time, which is what the IP is calibrated for....and based on conversations with Joel, it was on the top end that the inlet pressure made the biggest difference, so I'm sure that's where my top end power went. Unfortunately I didn't watch the fuel pressure gauge during my runs, so I have no idea how low it went during the runs. On the way home though, during just a gentle roll-on, the pressure dipped to 19psi, so it was at least that low, and likely lower, during the dyno pulls. Moral of the story there: I have more power left in this configuration if I can get a better fuel supply system going!
Oh yeah, another thing about the dyno. So the way a Mustang dyno decides how much to load the engine is by vehicle weight. It must try to recreate a real world situation by allowing the rolls to accelerate as fast as the car would accelerate based on the weight...........or something, dunno. So the first run had the true weight of the truck which is 5700 pounds. Since I only saw about 22 pounds of boost he added another 5000 pounds of vehicle weight to the calcs. That seemed to help as torque went up a little, but still not a ton of boost. He ended up adding 5000 more pounds for run 3 and the torque went up even more. You can watch the vids and see that I only hit about 23-24 pounds of boost during the runs, so it wasn't loading the turbo as much as I can in the real world. Having said that, you can also see in one of the videos that the exhaust is really clean, so I don't think I needed more boost anyway. Now if I had all of my fuel supply, then maybe the rest of that boost (air) would have helped? That will be determined in future runs.
Ha, so yeah....seeing the exhaust. You know I made a vent tube for the run. Well while getting it hooked up and run out the door my dad was pulling on it to try to get the most length out of it and he pulled the stuff right apart at the first bend! I don't know if you've ever worked with this stuff, but it's just a strip of aluminum wound in a spiral and crimped together, so if you pull too hard you can pull the crimp right apart. No biggie, I brought some duct tape with me, just in case. Well if you look closely in the first video you'll see it blow apart at the duct tape, ha! So the other runs after that were run without a tube. The guy was really cool about it. He was expecting Cummins-like smoke, so the fact that the 6.5 doesn't do that helped in this situation. Oh and that's also why you'll see something that looks like an exhaust tip on my tailpipe - that's the 4-6 adapter for the ductwork still on my tailpipe. I'll make something more robust for future runs.
Ok, I think that's all I can think to type, so now it's time for videos! I took EGT & Boost videos for each run since I was driving and then my brother took videos from the outside for each run. The process we used for the runs is to slowly get up to the speed where my converter would lock in 3rd gear, then I'd drop rpm a little, then ease up to 2000 rpm before hitting it. Again, this was a really cool experience driving it myself!! Although seeing it from the outside could have been really cool as well. Oh yeah, speaking of EGT....it was a lot lower than I expected! So was that because I wasn't hitting the boost level I normally do, or is it the new air filter? I've hit 1250 getting on the highway unloaded, no problem, in the past. Honestly I haven't thought to look at EGT when driving around since air filter installation so I'll need to do that. Maybe the Donaldson filter was really that much of a restriction? If so, I am SO glad I put the aFe one in!!
VIDEOS:
Run 1 EGT & Boost
Run 1 Outside (this is when the tube blows off)
Run 2 EGT & Boost (you can see how I let off earlier)
Run 2 Outside (you can see how I let off earlier)
Run 3 EGT & Boost
Run 3 Outside (this one was from behind so you can see the exhaust)
https://youtu.be/_umWKVHwM5Q
Run 4 EGT & Boost
https://youtu.be/-C2xUFbG610
Run 4 Outside (my brother recorded the dyno screen during the run)
https://youtu.be/NW6vrrPlIzY
I think I've covered everything. If I think of anything else I'll be sure to share. Thanks for following along with me!
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
Nice!
n8in8or
I never met a project I didn’t like
Oh yeah, I hadn't thought about winter blend. Dang!
Yeah, I think so! A little better than the 180 stock, eh??
Looking at them now, they're all pretty close. You can see the torque rise as more resistance was programmed in, but the last 2 runs were at the same setting and they were within 2 ft-lbs of each other.
With the auto trans, I would have to say that you are probably 100% correct sir!!
Congrats to Nate on this awesome endeavor! The persistence and motivation involved in this project is really something amazing as we all know.
Nate, my hat is off to you!
Rich.
Thanks Rich! When I got the 6.5, I found the lack of documented info troubling. People would say something could be done (or not done), but there wasn't a lot of evidence. We now love in an age of technology where it's easy to give evidence, so that's what I wanted to do. Whatever I did, I would share it. If it worked, great! If it didn't work, also great! At least someone else wouldn't make the same mistake.
Wow. You are one of the pioneers for getting performance out of the 6.5 I feel, and you were one of the few that did have some documentation (I loved watching your truck run on the strip on YouTube!). I'm humbled, John, thank you. I hope you get that truck back out, we'd all love to see some more runs!!
Thanks FT!
Hmmm, I didn't ask him which correction factor he used, just that he was using one. You can see on the screens that there is an Actual number and then a number with correction factor (WCF). Unfortunately we had to calculate RPM since we couldn't get my crank sensor to work for the dyno. Next time I'll bring my Ferret adapter.
Hmmm, yeah, there's still a little left on the table. There will be more runs and I'll dial all of that out of it.
....coming in 2017!
It does feel good Chris, really good! Thanks man, I appreciate that!
n8in8or
I never met a project I didn’t like
Looking at the graphs some more....I think the peak numbers are fairly representative of the power I'm putting out, but the shape of the graph isn't right. I'll still use this place for some more testing because they're close and good to work with, but I think I'll have to hit a dyno used to working with diesels to get a true curve.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Im thinking your fuel pressure wasn't where it is supposed to be, so the fuel is cut back. That's why the lower egt numbers and not overpowering exhaust with the lower boost on the turbo. Once you correct the fuel pressure the desire for that boost will get at ya.
Running my high pressure db's a couple of pounds off the top end made a big difference. That rate of acceleration drop you are seeing around 3100 will improve too.
Sweet man. Love to see it. Chris' comment of raising the bar is no joke-
Running my high pressure db's a couple of pounds off the top end made a big difference. That rate of acceleration drop you are seeing around 3100 will improve too.
Sweet man. Love to see it. Chris' comment of raising the bar is no joke-