Brake upgrades using factory parts for GMT-400(88-00 OBS), and 94-99 DODGE 2500/3500

[tanman_2006]

Looking to do the brakes on my 95 C3500 srw. I get the upgrades to the front but I ran into an issue on my rears.

It seems to have the 2.5" drums that are behind the hub. Is there an easy way to put in 3.5" drums or is it best to find a whole different axle?

If the solution is a different axle then a new spring kit, dually cylinders, and shoes it is and I will be on the look out for a diff lol.

 

[jrsavoie]

Looking to do the brakes on my 95 C3500 srw. I get the upgrades to the front but I ran into an issue on my rears.

It seems to have the 2.5" drums that are behind the hub. Is there an easy way to put in 3.5" drums or is it best to find a whole different axle?

If the solution is a different axle then a new spring kit, dually cylinders, and shoes it is and I will be on the look out for a diff lol.

I thought you could replace the backing plate. I just looked into this when working on the 96 K1500 Suburban - in 2018, I believe - I might have posted about it, or may have even posted on this thread.

I know it was do-able.

 

[staatsof]

I'm finally putting the parts list together for rebuild of the entire rear axle braking system. I am going to replace the prop valve.
I found the recommended uprated rear shoes from the tech bulletin. But the pads they suggest gm 12471685 don't confirm as fitting my 99 K2500 Suburban with 454. The alternate part number with those pads definitely says that it does not fit.

For the rear shoes this is what's on there now and due to the system being constantly maladjusted as well as that prop value issue they still have lots of wear. But ... they've been on there forever and I'm going with all new parts in the rear.

https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=4000

I've also used these on the front till last year when as an emergency my mechanic put "something on". Well "something" is now already shot.

https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=2795
I had two sets of these pads on for a span of 80K miles and 11 years which isn't too bad.

What's not very clear about the GM/AC Delco recommended parts is whether they truly are higher performance or just longer lasting.
I'm after performance.

This why I went with the Porterfield in the first place: https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/images/portstrt2008_11_06_02_45_30.pdf

Even with these in place the braking has deteriorated terribly and so I'm just replacing everything in the rear and putting new pads on the front. It got new slotted rotors two years ago and new powder coated rebuilt OEM calipers up front with new stock hoses one year ago.

I'm going to try and replace all of the hoses with the SS braided ones but as noted already references for this vehicle are hard to fine. I see a Russel kit and one from Inline which fits the K1500 suburbans. When I called they said that it also fits the K2500? Hmmmm.
Presumably then so would the Russel kit.

https://www.inlinetube.com/products/CT1012

This kit from Goodridge 14116 Gstop does claim to fit. It doesn't have any abrasion cover though and braided SS can do a lot of damage.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goodridge-USA-14116-G-STOP-SS-Braided-Brake-Line-Kit/302887203325?fits=Year:1999|Model:K2500+Suburban|Submodel:LS|Engine+-+Liter_Display:7.4L|Make:Chevrolet&epid=1617867533&hash=item46857bf1fd:g:~oEAAOSwj8hboA0J:rk:6f:0

Your suggestion for a set of rear wheel cylinders @ 1 3/16" creates some issues. I can't confirm if it will mount and clear properly. But the inlet port is definitely different. Since I am going to be replacing the rear axle hard line with a preformed one from Inline it's going to have the oem size fitting on it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-99-Ch...h=item5d5e6bb426:g:slwAAOSwo6lWKqXp:rk:5:pf:0

What's the thinking on the larger diameter? While it should provide more leverage it's also going to require longer pedal travel.

I know the Porterfield pads will fit but which ones from GM that will amongst those so called upgraded ones isn't clear.

Thanks for any input other than suggesting discs on the rear.

So I got a hold of Russel and they definitively do not have a hose kit to fit.

I spoke with Goodridge out of LA and it took a while but they think a 14116C kit will fit but it does not have the rectangular banjo fitting on the end for the front two hoses. Looking at my caliper up front I think that's pretty important to prevent rotation.

The Inline kit is said to fit but it's also listed for way too many Suburban versions from that era which do have differing OEM hoses so I'm not feeling very certain. The do claim to offer a custom hose service which I will investigate. None of these possibilities have the center support bracket and none have a sleeve over the fittings. Ideally the entire hose should be sleeved to protect it and anything it might rub on which should not be case anyway ...

I think Inline will have the proper end fittings, not sure about the center bracket though. So maybe if I send them an OEM set new they can copy those? But then when I look at the kit they think fits if has the round banjo fittings?




Too bad about the Russel hoses because these look like would work, fit the bill but must not be the correct length? Anyone know if perhaps I've been misinformed by Russell?

 

[tanman_2006]

I thought you could replace the backing plate. I just looked into this when working on the 96 K1500 Suburban - in 2018, I believe - I might have posted about it, or may have even posted on this thread.

I know it was do-able.

I knew someone tried it but didn't remember if there was any success

 

[jrsavoie]

I knew someone tried it but didn't remember if there was any success

I was missing the other backing plate. I had several State trucks earlier and should not have sold them I could have used the parts. I had recently sold a bed and rear axle for something like $150 I could maybe just used the whole rear end, brakes and aLL. But then I probably would have had to change the gears in the rear. But I have a full set of gears new in the box in the tool shed - If anybody wants them - I will get info. I think they are 3.73 and may have been for my 94 - Might be 3.42.

Anyway, had I not got rid of everything, I could have upgraded for next to nothing

 

[tanman_2006]

I'll keep those gears in mind. I know my c3500 6.5 has 3.73s. Probably a custom ordered fleet truck, it might also have had the diff swapped and the only axle they found in 3.73 was a 2.5" brake set up. With 330k on it its hard to know.

 

[staatsof]

A question .........

I see that you're on another forum discussing these brake hose kits.

So you did or did not install the inline kit and on which vehicle.

Ditto for the Russell kit?

Bob S.

 

[jrsavoie]

I'll keep those gears in mind. I know my c3500 6.5 has 3.73s. Probably a custom ordered fleet truck, it might also have had the diff swapped and the only axle they found in 3.73 was a 2.5" brake set up. With 330k on it its hard to know.

The 89 C2500 I had - I think was 3.73 IIRC I know it was not a 4.10

I'm sure it's posted on the forums someplace from back when I knew

 

[jrsavoie]

I see that you're on another forum discussing these brake hose kits.

So you did or did not install the inline kit and on which vehicle.

Ditto for the Russell kit?

Bob S.

I had a couple of inlinetube kits. I was very happy with them On one of the vehicles - I think the Tahoe - I got the wrong line coming from the fuel tank. I found a schematic with the proper line and sent it to them. They sent me another full kit. Problem was, it was the same as the first kit. The 3rd time they just sent the line that was wrong.

I forget what I ordered for stainless flex lines. I was told they came complete with the plates. When I got them they were bare. I ran out of time and probably ended up just using AC Delco Professional lines.

I try to remember to finish the story when I post, But sometimes time doesn't allow for that. And after 30 seconds or so, I can't remember anyway.

 

[jrsavoie]

I'll keep those gears in mind. I know my c3500 6.5 has 3.73s. Probably a custom ordered fleet truck, it might also have had the diff swapped and the only axle they found in 3.73 was a 2.5" brake set up. With 330k on it its hard to know.

I might have posted them up for sale here before. If you remind me I will check out and get the numbers, so you know exactly what I have. I'll never need them unless I get rid of them. I do not drive enough miles anymore to maximize mileage and driving comfort. The favorite setup I ever had was the 89 with the 5 speed Getrag and I believe it was the 3.73 gears

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

The backing plates are the same for 2.5 or 3.5" shoes on the 10.5" axle, it's the drums that are different. Sounds like you got a truck that somebody swapped rear diffs in. All 3500's and burbs got drums that slide over the hub and 3.5" wide shoes, 2500's got the drums behind the hub and only got 2.5" wide shoes because that is all the room you had with the drum set inward. Also, iirc the 2500 axle with the behind the hub drums is narrower than the burb/3500 axle with the drums that slide over the hub.

As to brake lines, I have a set of Russel's on mine that have been on it for 14 years now. I don't know what part number they were, but they were listed for 2500's when I bought them.

 

[staatsof]

As to brake lines, I have a set of Russel's on mine that have been on it for 14 years now. I don't know what part number they were, but they were listed for 2500's when I bought them.

They list them only for some 2500's now and when I asked pointedly about my Sub K2500 with all of it's specs they said that these are very specific and if they don't list the vehicle then it won't fit. So ... whats a fellow to think? I could order set and see how they compare. I think one might be able to transfer the center support from an OEM style hose. I've located those for as little as $9 so an extra $18 isn't a deal killer just an enormous PITA. Those have to be crimped and rotationally oriented as well. I don't have a workshop now which means my mechanic has to do this. That might be a problem.

 

[tanman_2006]

The backing plates are the same for 2.5 or 3.5" shoes on the 10.5" axle, it's the drums that are different. Sounds like you got a truck that somebody swapped rear diffs in. All 3500's and burbs got drums that slide over the hub and 3.5" wide shoes, 2500's got the drums behind the hub and only got 2.5" wide shoes because that is all the room you had with the drum set inward. Also, iirc the 2500 axle with the behind the hub drums is narrower than the burb/3500 axle with the drums that slide over the hub.

I believe the axle swap idea is very possible, the truck had been T Boned in the bed when I bought it for the optimizer engine. The rear axle has all new studs suggesting a JY axle that had sat in the dirt

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

They list them only for some 2500's now and when I asked pointedly about my Sub K2500 with all of it's specs they said that these are very specific and if they don't list the vehicle then it won't fit. So ... whats a fellow to think? I could order set and see how they compare. I think one might be able to transfer the center support from an OEM style hose. I've located those for as little as $9 so an extra $18 isn't a deal killer just an enormous PITA. Those have to be crimped and rotationally oriented as well. I don't have a workshop now which means my mechanic has to do this. That might be a problem.

I'm pretty sure mine don't have those clips on them and I've never had an issue.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

I believe the axle swap idea is very possible, the truck had been T Boned in the bed when I bought it for the optimizer engine. The rear axle has all new studs suggesting a JY axle that had sat in the dirt

There's a good chance of that because the 3500 srw rear axle is pretty rare.

 

[staatsof]

This TSB was quite helpful.
I've ordered the appropriate brake balance valve.
I'm willing to try the rear shows they specify instead of the high perf Porterfield shoes this time. Those still have a ton pad on them, probably for a variety of reasons.

But the front pads they mention simply do not fit my 99 Suburban.

So ... I'm guessing those are made of the same pad material as the rear shoes?

But when you go shopping for brake pads in the correct configuration there are so many GM/AC Delco based variations that I'm lost looking.

Does anyone have any tips.

Otherwise I'll put the Poterfield pads on the front. They seemed to work fine. The emergency set I put on about a year ago (unknown quality) are already about shot.

And ... currently the car stops like crap. It wasn't THIS bad years ago so that's why I'm doing a complete redo of the rears including the backing plates which look like something off of the Titanic. Ditto the drums.

Thanks.

Here is where I got the part number I posted, I know the 92-94 Suburbans use a different ABS unit than the 95-99s. So that's probably one reason for the different part number don't you think?

I hope you don't mind I posted the TSB technical info here.

https://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/project-rear-disc-brakes.45238/ post #57 and #58

Found the Suburban Brake TSB. Note the comments about having to file the steering knuckles to get proper caliper clearance. First I've heard of that. Sounds like a great overall engineering effort. Oh and I found this in a thread where the guy had wrecked his truck because of the crap brakes. Said he was only getting 8K to 10K miles out of the pads.

Caliper TSB

Tech - Brake Lead/Pull and Frt Brake Wear (Repl. Frt
Brake Pads, Rr Brake Shoes) #99-05-24-001A
Brake Lead/Pull and Front Brake Wear (Replace Front Brake Pads And/Or Rear
Brake Shoes)
1992-1999 Chevrolet and GMC C/K Cab Chassis, Crew Cab, and Pickup Models
with Power Brakes (RPO JB8)
1992-99 Chevrolet and GMC C/K Suburban Models with 8600# GVW (RPO C6P)
1996-2000 Chevrolet and GMC G Vans with Power Brakes (RPO JD7 & JB8) and
GVW's of 7,700# up to 9,500# (RPO's
C3F, C6P, & E23)
This bulletin is being revised to update information in the Models Section
and Correction Information. Please discard Corporate
Bulletin Number 99-05-24-001 (Section 5 -- Brakes).
Condition
Some owners may comment about the vehicle leading or pulling to either side
while applying the brakes, and premature front
brake wear, especially vehicles that have been used to tow a heavy load.
Cause
The condition may be caused by wearing of the front brake material.
Improvements to the above conditions can be gained
through brake material modifications. On the Suburban models, the best
performance from this new brake material can be
achieved with replacing the brake combination valve.
Correction
Replace the rear brake shoes with P/N 18029651. THIS FIX DOES NOT APPLY TO
THE 13 x 2 1/2 BRAKE,
DURASTOPT P/N 18029650, OR ANY OTHER SIZE. On Suburban models, a brake
combination valve must be
replaced. ALL OTHER MODELS (C/K, G Van), NO BRAKE COMBINATION VALVE CHANGE
IS REQUIRED.
Refer to the Drum Brakes or Hydraulic Brakes subsection of the appropriate
Service Manual. For G2/G3 Series Vans only
(with GVW's of 7,700# up to 9,500# -- RPOs C3F, C6P, E23) also replace the
front brakes pads with P/N 12471685.
Refer to the Disc Brake subsection of the appropriate Service Manual.
Important
The new front brake pad material has been selected for improved wear
characteristics. Some customers may experience
increased brake noise from this brake pad and should be advised that some
squeal is a characteristic of this particular material.
Important
If you encounter disc brakes that are extremely worn on the inboard side,
with very little wear to the outboard side, verify the
clearance between the caliper and the steering knuckle bracket stops.
MEASURE THE CLEARANCES INDIVIDUALLY AND ADD THE CLEARANCES TOGETHER FOR
TOTAL
CLEARANCE BEFORE REMOVING THE CALIPER. If the caliper (total clearance) to
the steering knuckle stops is under
0.26 mm (0.010 in), correct this by filing metal off at the steering knuckle
stops in order to obtain a total clearance of
0.26 to 0.60 mm (0.010 to 0.024 in). DO NOT FILE METAL OFF OF THE CALIPER.

 

[staatsof]

Just bought the Russel hose kit, got a deal impossible to refuse with free returns. I also bought an example of each of the stock hoses for a total of $16. So I'll be able to compare them soon back to back. If those don't work out I can send the el cheapo hoses to Inline for them to match.

With the center support bracket in place I don't think that the lack of a square banjo is nearly as important.

 

[jrsavoie]

The backing plates are the same for 2.5 or 3.5" shoes on the 10.5" axle, it's the drums that are different. Sounds like you got a truck that somebody swapped rear diffs in. All 3500's and burbs got drums that slide over the hub and 3.5" wide shoes, 2500's got the drums behind the hub and only got 2.5" wide shoes because that is all the room you had with the drum set inward. Also, iirc the 2500 axle with the behind the hub drums is narrower than the burb/3500 axle with the drums that slide over the hub.

As to brake lines, I have a set of Russel's on mine that have been on it for 14 years now. I don't know what part number they were, but they were listed for 2500's when I bought them.

I'm not sure what I was working on last. It seems like it may have been the 1996 K1500 Suburban. I would have to go back to the threads to see what I was trying to do.

 

[staatsof]

The 1", 1 1/16", & 1 3/16" wheel cylinders all mount and connect the same. I've swapped them all and had zero problems hooking them up. I'm currently running 1 3/16" drw wheel cylinders in the back of my k2500 burb with the acdelco durastop rear shoes from the tsb with my 13 x 3.5" drum brakes. I put the proportioning valve in 9 years ago to correct my brake bias after the duramax swap. I've never heard of the porterfield brake parts. I normally use raybestos advanced(which is what I have on the front), but I switched to the durastops in the back as per the tsb and they're definately a much more aggressive material. They also wear a good bit faster than the oem did. Not rapidly, but they actually wear down whereas my stock shoes still had good meat left at 200k miles(almost new thickness still), the durastops showed noted wear after 50k miles.

Thanks. The specifications show a differing inlet thread size on the stock wheel cylinder versus the 1 3/16" diameter one?

The specs on the Rockauto website for the 1 3/16" Raybestos wheel cylinders appear to be incorrect. Hence my confusion.

So I'm going to try them out. With these, upgraded hoses, the new shoes and the differently biased prop valve I sure hope I'm not leaving two black strips of rubber from the rear whenever I put on the brakes! As if!

My prop valve arrived. I never could tell if it's already been replaced. I have a braking system pressure gauge so I'll be measuring everything. I can't check the rears now because the bleed screws are rusted in place and I didn't want to risk breaking one. I have SS bleed screws for the new ones and the same are already on the front calipers.

The el cheapo brake hoses arrived so I can compare them with Russel hoses which arrive today. Fingers crossed.
Inline sent me a complete SS brake line kit for $186 which was the only way I could get the two rear sections which are spiral wrapped.

I went with Performance Friction 370.20 pads up front and the TSB recommended rear shoes.

Next is new drums and backing plates. This time of year those might take a while to get here. Usually it's via UPS and their service is horrific here this time of year.

 

[Will L.]

It would be cool to see 60-0 (or whatever similar you can do in your area) stopping results before and after.

Also if your going to do the pressure tests on everything, please post those too. Ya never know when that info of real life testing comes in handy for the next person doing this fix.