• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

Banks sidewinder exhaust manifold group buy.

Well its not uncommon for NA 6.2 trucks to get 24mpg with DB2. My thought is a 6.5 DB2 or DS4 NA should do the same, and thats probably 2wdRC trucks?? I would love to hit that #. I also plan on LPG injection to further reduce cost per mile.
On DS4 a multi position tune would optimize the theroy. One for eco one for power......ect.

Side note: discovered today the 6.5 crossover flange is not the same as the 6.2/Banks manifold. I found a flange and had a short pipe made today. Still waiting on a few parts to come it. Will post as I procede.
 
JayTheCPA said:
How much more $ for the better flowing up-pipes?
Click to expand...

Fleabay had them about 50-60 for stock style, 80 for better ones. (Each). I didnt know about the better ones when i bought the one i needed or i would have bought the set of high flow ones. I still might if i ever get rich and famous.

Leroy
I am a db2 fan, but I would think the ds4 would work better, program 1 for n/a, program 2 for turbo. Or can that not be done on the fly? Idk. My rule is Will + electronics = raging fireball of terror, soon replaced by manual everything.
 
Tune can be switched on the fly. Im actually going to switch my 96 back to DS4, but in OBDI.

I don't think a high flow version would have any real world affect on performance or MPGs were talking what 1/4"-1/2" bigger dia? but its pre turbo and such a short run. I don't think you would ever know the diff.
 
Burning oil said:
Tune can be switched on the fly. Im actually going to switch my 96 back to DS4, but in OBDI.

I don't think a high flow version would have any real world affect on performance or MPGs were talking what 1/4"-1/2" bigger dia? but its pre turbo and such a short run. I don't think you would ever know the diff.
Click to expand...

Switching from obd2 to obd1 just peaked my interest. I'm all ears!

Source Unknown
 
I/we have been thinking for years how to build an adaptor cable to convert OBDII to OBDI or maybe sell a guide to depin/repin the ECM.
But thats another thread for a future time :burnout:
 
Easier/cheaper tuning and the ability to run a multi tune switch on the fly chip

Sent from my Studio 5.0s using Tapatalk
 
Will L. said:
why obd 1 instead of 2?
Click to expand...

Cheap (-er) reprogramming.

Can support multiple flash chips.

If you're really good, you can get "real time tuning" up and running on OBDI.

But IMHO, OBDI is a step backwards.

OBDII is more "tuneable", has more "depth" and as such has more potential/possibilities.

My 98 turns eyes wide every time I hit the go pedal and it's mostly the calibration. My missus gives me a standard warning about "throttle application" everytime she gets in the truck now.

:lol:

It's about what a stock LB7 is, maybe a smidge more. It could be hotter, but durability of the whole driveline would start to suffer at that point. As it is, I'm a bit over the OEM ratings for the 4L80E. I wouldn't want to push it much harder and expect it to live a long and happy life.

I've found multitune chips to be pretty much.....well, lets just see I don't see the point anymore.

I've tuned a couple trucks (non 6.5) that have had multitunes on them. I can always get just what the owner is looking for without "switchable" tunes. Most guys come back after a couple months and are completely happy with the truck and have pulled the selector out of the dash. I've even gotten referrals from people, but I only do this for fun not money. Lots of guys get turned away, I'm not interested in doing it a lot. It's fun working on a truck I've never worked on before, but I do it when I want to or to help someone out that I know. It's not a business and lots of guys don't get that so they go away disappointed. Young kids get turned away right off. Last thing I want on my conscience is some dead kid who put it sideways in the ditch because he goosed 'er at exactly the wrong moment and my power broke him loose...No thank you. Mention "smoke" and they're gone too. Like I said: I'm not a business. I decide what they get, not my wallet.
:)

I often get a little internal giggle when guys talk diesel at the shop and brag about 5 tune this or 6 tune that. When they start bragging about how much HP they have because they can blow black "ditch to ditch" I just quietly turn and walk away.

A properly set up "tune" will tow, get good fuel mileage and still have excellent performance. It can burn so clean that people won't know it's a diesel until they see the tiny puff as you stomp it or hear the "clatter".

We'd probably have less enviro groups breathing down our diesel necks if more people understood that. The "Black smoke bunch" are gonna kill it for all of us....they've already hobbled us (DPF, regen, etc).

Mine sniffs clean too. NOx is a little high because I run my tune a touch on the "hot" side, but flick the water on and NOx drops right off. Problem is; particulate and MO goes up. You have to find that "sweet spot" if Using WI to hit the specs the gov't is looking for. Mine has not catalytic convertor either. Plans are to put one back in once I find one that meets my satisfaction. Then it's back to finding the balance....;)

I also do my own tuning, so i don't pay 500 bucks a pop for a recalibrated PCM and I fine tune mine to where I want it. A "tow haul" mode is only a 10 sec reflash away with my "on board" tuning setup if I want longer shift points or more engine braking. If I'm towing, I'm doing it all day long so a minute or two to in the morning change the calibration is no big deal. Takes a couple miles for the adaptive learn to get it's feet back under it, but then it's off an running fine.

About the only place a "multichip" is better is to hold a "tow haul" like the newer trucks. Even then, it's transmission recalibration that makes the real difference. That's all that's different in my tow tune and everyday tune. Any tune that runs "hot" is never good for the truck.

But I digress form the OBDI/II discussion and I'm getting a little "ranty", so I'll sum up with:

If you want to DIY, you can get up and running for around 300 bucks with OBDI. OBDII is going to cost you around a grand.

:)
 
great white said:
Cheap (-er) reprogramming.

Can support multiple flash chips.

If you're really good, you can get "real time tuning" up and running on OBDI.

But IMHO, OBDI is a step backwards.

OBDII is more "tuneable", has more "depth" and as such has more potential/possibilities.

:)
Click to expand...

6.5 community sure could use a good reliable, afordable, timely tuner.
As for me the learning curve would be to big to get into it. I also don't have the time. (atleast I think those are my excuses, maybe its a simple thing?). Im 100% ignorant to the process.
 
Burning oil said:
6.5 community sure could use a good reliable, afordable, timely tuner.
As for me the learning curve would be to big to get into it. I also don't have the time. (atleast I think those are my excuses, maybe its a simple thing?). Im 100% ignorant to the process.
Click to expand...


Meh, affordable is a relative term to me.

I would argue there are affordable options on the market already. While 500 bucks is a fair bit of coin to the average joe, it's reasonable considering what a "tuner" has to put in to it for the minimal returns it will bring.

It takes anywhere from 1,000-3,000 (-ish) just to get the equipment for OBDII. OBDI is a bit better, but you're looking at somewhere around 500-1000 for commercially viable stuff. Reputable tuners who do it as a business aren't going to mess with freeware stuff, they want support so they can overcome difficulties quickly. That's why more for the OBDI stuff than one would think.

Then there's learning what you need to do. That is literally hundreds of hours tuning and testing. That labor costs money. Then there's the cost of destructive errors. It happens when you are learning. Thousands there at least.

Now add into that the 6.X market share is infinitesimal. Literally infinitesimal compared to the Duramax, Powerstroke and Cummins crowd..

There's just no viable return on investment for it. Not if you're doing it as a business that is.

I do it as a hobbiest for my own enjoyment, nothing more. I don't charge guys for my work. I don't think I could even recoup my costs if I charged 500 bucks for a PCM. I'm only into OBDII tuning for around 1500 bucks (can do all years) but my labor time in learning it would be huge. About 3 years in my spare time and more Dyno time than I care to think about (although I don't pay for dyno time with the deal I have worked out). Guys like Westers and Kennedy may have dyno's in house which speeds the process up, but then there's the price of the dyno to recoup plus their labor. Guys like Bill learned it by (if I'm not mistaken) run and gun. That takes absolutely FOREVER to get it right. Trust me; forever.

If I was to make back any money at it, it would be from the modern diesels and even that would be "iffy". I wouldn't even consider trying to market a 6.5 solution, even if I did use tunercats dealer kit or by PCM exchange.

Personally, I don't know how someone stays in business only asking 500 bucks for a 6.5 PCM. It's just not viable. Too much cost to get it done, not enough market to make sales volume.

So I would call 500 bucks an affordable option, given the situation. Guys lament not having a $100-ish solution. That's just not realistic, although an understandable view seeing most don't have perspective on what it takes to get it done. 500 isn't bad at all, all things considered.

It just stings a guy in the wallet pretty hard when you can just barely afford one of these old hacks to begin with....
 
great white said:
Meh, affordable is a relative term to me.

I would argue there are affordable options on the market already. While 500 bucks is a fair bit of coin to the average joe, it's reasonable considering what a "tuner" has to put in to it for the minimal returns it will bring.

It takes anywhere from 1,000-3,000 (-ish) just to get the equipment for OBDII. OBDI is a bit better, but you're looking at somewhere around 500-1000 for commercially viable stuff. Reputable tuners who do it as a business aren't going to mess with freeware stuff, they want support so they can overcome difficulties quickly. That's why more for the OBDI stuff than one would think.

Then there's learning what you need to do. That is literally hundreds of hours tuning and testing. That labor costs money. Then there's the cost of destructive errors. It happens when you are learning. Thousands there at least.

Now add into that the 6.X market share is infinitesimal. Literally infinitesimal compared to the Duramax, Powerstroke and Cummins crowd..

There's just no viable return on investment for it. Not if you're doing it as a business that is.

I do it as a hobbiest for my own enjoyment, nothing more. I don't charge guys for my work. I don't think I could even recoup my costs if I charged 500 bucks for a PCM. I'm only into OBDII tuning for around 1500 bucks (can do all years) but my labor time in learning it would be huge. About 3 years in my spare time and more Dyno time than I care to think about (although I don't pay for dyno time with the deal I have worked out). Guys like Westers and Kennedy may have dyno's in house which speeds the process up, but then there's the price of the dyno to recoup plus their labor. Guys like Bill learned it by (if I'm not mistaken) run and gun. That takes absolutely FOREVER to get it right. Trust me; forever.

If I was to make back any money at it, it would be from the modern diesels and even that would be "iffy". I wouldn't even consider trying to market a 6.5 solution, even if I did use tunercats dealer kit or by PCM exchange.

Personally, I don't know how someone stays in business only asking 500 bucks for a 6.5 PCM. It's just not viable. Too much cost to get it done, not enough market to make sales volume.

So I would call 500 bucks an affordable option, given the situation. Guys lament not having a $100-ish solution. That's just not realistic, although an understandable view seeing most don't have perspective on what it takes to get it done. 500 isn't bad at all, all things considered.

It just stings a guy in the wallet pretty hard when you can just barely afford one of these old hacks to begin with....
Click to expand...

Not to mention all the tech support after the sale.

I'll be posting in the future about a OBDI conversion in the future in another thread.

Now back on topic please. Here are a few pics of the Banks manifold. Im trying to show the flow path is much more effecient, its a direct shot right at the turbo from the crossover.
 
Is that an egt bung already cast in from factory? Nice. The turbo should spool wicked quick compared to the stock gm manifold
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top