A military rebuilt 6.5

[n8in8or]

You made some good progress there. I have most everything done. Need to finish the turbo oil supply and drain lines. The drain line is in place, just needs the rubber coupler tightened. The supply line is also in place. But, since this is a 90 6.2 block it doesn't have the supply port in the front of the block. I had an extension made for the stock supply line and in place. I just need to finish routing the stock supply line and tighten it.

I started to install the passenger side glow plugs, but have been having headaches trying to figure out how to route the wires and keep them from touching the hot exhaust pipe. Several years ago I installed a Diamond Eye exhaust system, and the 3" down pipe takes up a bit of space there. The wires are not in real good shape at 21 years old, so I'm seriously considering upgrading them real soon. I just need to find a source for the high temp coated wires, and, or, high temp slide on sleeves to protect the wires.

I did enough cranking before installing the turbo to get oil pressure up and into the turbo supply line, prior to starting glow plug install. While in church today I realized I never tightened the grounds post at the auto trans dipstick, so I'm hoping that is why I never saw any mist coming from the glow plug holes while doing the cranking.

Looking at your pics, where you put the cold temp sensor is the same place I put the sensor for the coolant gauge. I figure that since that is supposed to be the warmest location in both heads that would be the best place to add a gauge to compliment the stock gauge.

It sounds like the rain has either stopped, or slowed down enough to go out this evening and continue with the install (I'm working in my driveway). This afternoon the rain was pouring off the roof in buckets quantities. I've had to work in that type of rain, and it is not fun.

Don

Glad to hear you're making progress. I've done engine and trans swaps in rain and snow and it is no fun at all. I hope you get a break in the weather. I got some sleeving off of Amazon for mu glow plug wires because the plastic sleeving I had on there was all melted.

Seems like a good idea putting the temp gauge in that spot.

 

[n8in8or]

Music to my ears.

A couple small hiccups after it was started but now it's all sorted. I've only driven it 10 miles so far but already I can tell it's so much smoother than before. I used to be able to feel the engine in my feet going down the road, and that's with a Fluidampr! Nice and smooth now. I think it might be a little quieter out the exhaust now too but it's too early to tell for sure. The smoothness makes me love the truck ao much more now, it used to drive me nuts before. I just wish I knew if it was the cam or the incorrectly installed flexplate that caused the shakiness. So happy now. Can't wait to put some miles on this thing now!

 

[Paveltolz]

I know how good you feel with it starting and also running smooth.
Flex plate being part of the rotating assembly might cause a shakiness but if the cam was off, then the firing would have been too. I know one of the earlier companies that tried to do grinds didn't get the lobes correct and so one side (passenger vs. driver) was way off and caused a lot of issues. They gave up, sold the design to another company that claimed to have it right.
I like mine in that I've spun it up to 4500 a few times on runs and other's like SS-Force, Big-T and his son, Devildogadam and 635 have hesitatingly run it up to 4000 as well and it was very smooth.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences, successes and failures. Its good to learn others who are more capable than I have to 'adjust fire' now and again. Just the thought of dropping in a motor solo makes me bow in reverence to those who do it. 15 minutes! That's talent. You guys are my hero's!

 

[n8in8or]

I know how good you feel with it starting and also running smooth.
Flex plate being part of the rotating assembly might cause a shakiness but if the cam was off, then the firing would have been too. I know one of the earlier companies that tried to do grinds didn't get the lobes correct and so one side (passenger vs. driver) was way off and caused a lot of issues. They gave up, sold the design to another company that claimed to have it right.
I like mine in that I've spun it up to 4500 a few times on runs and other's like SS-Force, Big-T and his son, Devildogadam and 635 have hesitatingly run it up to 4000 as well and it was very smooth.

Sounds fun!

 

[Burning oil]

Nice, not sure if its the mic or? but it sounds good, like it has a little more "pop" than other 6.5s I've heard. What LP you running? Have you timed it yet?

 

[n8in8or]

Nice, not sure if its the mic or? but it sounds good, like it has a little more "pop" than other 6.5s I've heard. What LP you running? Have you timed it yet?

I'm running your Raptor lift pump. I'm running 12-13 psi at idle.

No I haven't timed it yet. I'll be doing that in the next couple days.

 

[Chevypoor]

Sounds good, glad to hear it is up and running and looking for your feedback on how it drives!

I agree with Leroy, sounds a different than other 6.5s I have heard.

 

[n8in8or]

Nice, not sure if its the mic or? but it sounds good, like it has a little more "pop" than other 6.5s I've heard. What LP you running? Have you timed it yet?

I just listened to the video for the first time and I think it sounds a bit different in the video than it does in reality. I will still be checking my timing this week though.

I didn't unbolt the IP from the front cover when I disassembled the engine, but I did do 2 things:
1) I retarded the pump a fuzz because of what I saw on the #8 piston...it made me wonder if I was running a bit too advanced, especially when loaded
2) I installed a new timing chain. When I put the engine together this spring I just reused the original 2004 chain because it was well below wear specs and the engine obviously had low miles. This time I had some extra money so I put a brand new Cloyes chain on it. It was definitely tighter than the old chain, so that would have advanced the timing a little I'm guessing.

I'll hook it up to Car Code Thursday night and see where I am and if I should adjust it any.

Sounds good, glad to hear it is up and running and looking for your feedback on how it drives!

I agree with Leroy, sounds a different than other 6.5s I have heard.

As far as how it drives, I'm so much happier than how it was before! For the past 6 months I've been irritated with how much this engine shook. Going down the residential street on the way to work, the whole truck would bounce when the engine would be just off idle going 23-ish mph. And then at all speeds I could feel the imbalance through my feet and watch mirrors vibrate....so annoying. Now it's nice and smooth and finally feels like it should. I only wish I knew whether it was the cam or the incorrectly installed flexplate that had caused it. Now that it's smooth I feel much more confident that once it's broken in it will more readily deal with a bit more power being put to it.

In fact, I'm kind of going the route you have gone....after reading how 3500_6.5's mechanical conversion and quest for more fuel has gone, I got in contact with Conestoga Diesel this summer. I asked them about how much fuel the Bull Moose could put out and if they could do the same stuff they do to the Ford pumps to the GM pumps. They said they could. After a few more questions and stating what my goals were they told me that they had a rare opportunity to build a really nice pump. They just happened to have a marine DB2 core they could rebuild....and then if they did one of there Omega Moose builds to that pump they figured they'd be at the 120mm^3 number that 3500 is! So that's the direction I'm going and one of the reasons I wanted to get that header built. Of course this rebuild has set me back a bit both financially and with the time waiting for the engine to break in again, but it's still happening! They're building the pump this month but I'm going to wait until after the holidays to buy the transmission controller to complete the mechanical conversion. I'm really excited about this upcoming upgrade! It runs pretty strong, but after about 50% pedal I don't feel much more power coming on. In fact I'm only running 16psi of boost and I still only see a haze, no black, so I feel like I still have room to turn the boost up and be able to handle more fuel.....with 50% more fuel than what the DS4 can put out, I'm really stoked at the possibilities!

So far my experience talking to Conestoga has been great, how has your experience been?

 

[n8in8or]

Did a couple things last night.

First I changed the oil filter because I reached 100 miles since initial fire up. The oil seems to be staying cleaner on this rebuild more than on the last one. With the previous rebuild I set all of my piston ring gaps to the high end of the tolerance in the manual (and in fact I went a little over that with the 2nd rings by accident). My thinking was that there was a good chance I'd be pushing the engine harder than normal and so I wanted to give the rings the extra clearance for them to expand and not collide. After doing that, I started to second guess myself on that thinking, but it was too late of course. I was always disappointed with how dark my oil was (based on War Wagon's experiences with gapless rings), but the one time I checked compression I had good compression, so it was fine, just probably not ideal. So for this rebuild I had decided that I wouldn't run the gaps so large. One difference though was that the rings that came with the pistons were not file-fit rings - I checked the gaps and they were all in the middle of the range so I felt better about that. And now it seems that so far the oil is cleaner. We'll see if that continues to hold.

Second I checked the timing. Below are the screen shots of the screen before and after TDCO relearn. The -2.02 is where I had it set the last time I did it. After the relearn I'm at -1.67. I'm just going to leave the pump where it is because based on everything I've read that should indicate that I have the pump in a good place. Also Pump Timing and Desired Pump Timing are closer to each other now, so I think that's further evidence that I'm doing ok.

Initial scan:



After TDCO Relearn. FYI, I was going to try doing the TDCO Relearn with Car Code, but I was having laptop issues, so I just used the KOKO procedure and verified the results with Car Code later.

 

[SS FORCE]

They're building the pump this month but I'm going to wait until after the holidays to buy the transmission controller to complete the mechanical conversion. I'm really excited about this upcoming upgrade! It runs pretty strong, but after about 50% pedal I don't feel much more power coming on. In fact I'm only running 16psi of boost and I still only see a haze, no black, so I feel like I still have room to turn the boost up and be able to handle more fuel.....with 50% more fuel than what the DS4 can put out, I'm really stoked at the possibilities!

So far my experience talking to Conestoga has been great, how has your experience been?

With my 97 running the hx-35 @ 18psi and the custom tune from Heath that Paveltolz coined the "SMOKER" I had the same, no more grunt after 50% throttle, that your talking about. Granted that was on the stock lift pump, and after I did the FTB mod and installed the pressure gauge I found the lift pump to be a very weak link. Changing turbos to the ATT really changed the throttle response. I got more out of my top 50% throttle but still lacked fuel. It will be very interesting to see what happens when you up the boost and put in the moose pump. Can't wait to see what you do next.

 

[n8in8or]

With my 97 running the hx-35 @ 18psi and the custom tune from Heath that Paveltolz coined the "SMOKER" I had the same, no more grunt after 50% throttle, that your talking about. Granted that was on the stock lift pump, and after I did the FTB mod and installed the pressure gauge I found the lift pump to be a very weak link. Changing turbos to the ATT really changed the throttle response. I got more out of my top 50% throttle but still lacked fuel. It will be very interesting to see what happens when you up the boost and put in the moose pump. Can't wait to see what you do next.

Those are interesting results you had. I think an ATT with a bunch of fuel would be cool to try. I read that a guy is trying one on a 12V Cummins. It may have been on the Facebook page. I hope he posts the results, it would be interesting to see.

 

[Chevypoor]

[QUOTE="

So far my experience talking to Conestoga has been great, how has your experience been?[/QUOTE]

I have been very pleased. Running the Bull Moose and I love it. No issues with the pump and the folks with Conestoga have been great to work with. have a video in the projects section of this forum that shows how she runs at idle.

I will be interested to see hear how the conversion goes with an auto. I feel like the Electronic 6.5s felt hotter but oddly the mechanical pumps seem smoother. Love the reliability- NO PMD and or ELECTRONIC GREMLINS!!!

 

[n8in8or]

[QUOTE="

So far my experience talking to Conestoga has been great, how has your experience been?

I have been very pleased. Running the Bull Moose and I love it. No issues with the pump and the folks with Conestoga have been great to work with. have a video in the projects section of this forum that shows how she runs at idle.

I will be interested to see hear how the conversion goes with an auto. I feel like the Electronic 6.5s felt hotter but oddly the mechanical pumps seem smoother. Love the reliability- NO PMD and or ELECTRONIC GREMLINS!!![/QUOTE]
Good to hear! I'll have to look up that post. Thanks.

 

[Will L.]

No pmd feels really good to me. No grounding scares,no spare, no cares.

That's the only reason there's not a 6.5 burb in the driveway right now. I can't get away with a converted ds4:db2 because of smog. If I found a descent condition & price stock db2 burb...

 

[FellowTraveler]

Great build!

 

[n8in8or]

Great build!

Thanks FT.

 

[n8in8or]

I changed my oil and filter the other night at 240 miles. All is still well and I'm so happy with how the thing is running finally.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Did a couple things last night.

First I changed the oil filter because I reached 100 miles since initial fire up. The oil seems to be staying cleaner on this rebuild more than on the last one. With the previous rebuild I set all of my piston ring gaps to the high end of the tolerance in the manual (and in fact I went a little over that with the 2nd rings by accident). My thinking was that there was a good chance I'd be pushing the engine harder than normal and so I wanted to give the rings the extra clearance for them to expand and not collide. After doing that, I started to second guess myself on that thinking, but it was too late of course. I was always disappointed with how dark my oil was (based on War Wagon's experiences with gapless rings), but the one time I checked compression I had good compression, so it was fine, just probably not ideal. So for this rebuild I had decided that I wouldn't run the gaps so large. One difference though was that the rings that came with the pistons were not file-fit rings - I checked the gaps and they were all in the middle of the range so I felt better about that. And now it seems that so far the oil is cleaner. We'll see if that continues to hold.

Second I checked the timing. Below are the screen shots of the screen before and after TDCO relearn. The -2.02 is where I had it set the last time I did it. After the relearn I'm at -1.67. I'm just going to leave the pump where it is because based on everything I've read that should indicate that I have the pump in a good place. Also Pump Timing and Desired Pump Timing are closer to each other now, so I think that's further evidence that I'm doing ok.

Initial scan:

View attachment 46487

After TDCO Relearn. FYI, I was going to try doing the TDCO Relearn with Car Code, but I was having laptop issues, so I just used the KOKO procedure and verified the results with Car Code later.

View attachment 46488

1.67 is where my 6.5 likes to be too!

 

[n8in8or]

Update: I have almost 800 miles on it and I'm happy to report that all is well so far....well I should clarify, the engine is fine. I did an oil change at 640 miles and I'll be doing another one around 1150. I got a sample kit from Blackstone labs so I can do my first ever used oil analysis. We'll see what that says.

Last week when I started up the truck in the morning my Low Coolant light came on. Based on my earlier experiences with low coolant my b-hole instantly puckered (you know the feeling). That is what prompted me to get the oil analysis kit. But then I did a physical check later in the day and noticed that the block heater was weeping.....AGAIN . It had been slowly leaking before so I changed the center screw o-ring when the engine was apart....well that didn't work obviously. So I did some research and found that people are happier with the Zero Start block heaters, so I picked one of those up. And my brother told me that they put Aviation Sealer on the ones they do, so I decided to do that too. So last Saturday night I pulled the truck in the barn to cool overnight so I could do the block heater swap on Sunday....when I went out to do it Sunday I found another small puddle on the floor...under the core support! Yup, the radiator was leaking too!! So I ordered a new one off Rock Auto (sorry Leroy, I didn't have the cabbage for one of your sweet rads ). Last night I did the radiator and block heater swap, so now I should be leak-free finally. The radiator was the last old part of the cooling system so it didn't bother me too much to change it, but it was still annoying. It's all going to be a new truck soon!

 

[FellowTraveler]

Music to my ears.

A couple small hiccups after it was started but now it's all sorted. I've only driven it 10 miles so far but already I can tell it's so much smoother than before. I used to be able to feel the engine in my feet going down the road, and that's with a Fluidampr! Nice and smooth now. I think it might be a little quieter out the exhaust now too but it's too early to tell for sure. The smoothness makes me love the truck ao much more now, it used to drive me nuts before. I just wish I knew if it was the cam or the incorrectly installed flexplate that caused the shakiness. So happy now. Can't wait to put some miles on this thing now!

Sounds good, how does it feel at speed?