ATT Dyno #2

[OrionThade]

So here's my question:

NMB2, how much customization did you have in your 6.9 and how much real money (not including whatever discounts you got for your IP and turbo) did you spend to get numbers you dyno'd at? What was it, 300 HP and 650 ft/lbs TQ?

6.5, now much customization did you have in your 6.5 and how much real money did you spend to get the numbers you dyno'd at? (274 HP and 450 ft/lbs TQ)?

I ask because it seems like, after reading the build thread from NMB2, that he has a LOT of investment in customization on his rig to get the numbers he did.

Not trying to start a fight ... but NMB2 came to this forum with a bone to pick and a chip on his shoulder regarding the 'inferiority' of the GM platform vs the Ford platform. 274 HP is a respectable power output, IMO.

 

[Cumminsfever]

274 is VERY respectable, considering what hasn't been done to the truck!

 

[6.5L]

Truck: $2000
Optimizer 6500: $2000
DB2831-4911 Rebuilt with Upgraded Head and Rotor Assembly: $700
AFE Stage II: $300
FULL BOAR 4in Exhaust System: $350
Pressure Matched German Bosch 2300psi Injectors: $400 (included is a $10/injector core charge)
A-Team Turbo w/ Blanket: $927 (Included is $60 shipping)
Clutch: $300 (Truck came with Solid Mass Flywheel if anybody cares)
A-Pillar gauge cluster with Boost and Pyro gauges: $250


Total Cost: $7227 total investment

 

[OrionThade]

Truck: $2000
Optimizer 6500: $2000
DB2831-4911 Rebuilt with Upgraded Head and Rotor Assembly: $700
AFE Stage II: $300
FULL BOAR 4in Exhaust System: $350
Pressure Matched German Bosch 2300psi Injectors: $400 (included is a $10/injector core charge)
A-Team Turbo w/ Blanket: $927 (Included is $60 shipping)
Clutch: $300 (Truck came with Solid Mass Flywheel if anybody cares)
A-Pillar gauge cluster with Boost and Pyro gauges: $250


Total Cost: $7227 total investment

Did you do anything to the Optimizer? Head gaskets, ARP studs, etc?

 

[Paveltolz]

Truck: $2000
Optimizer 6500: $2000
DB2831-4911 Rebuilt with Upgraded Head and Rotor Assembly: $700
AFE Stage II: $300
FULL BOAR 4in Exhaust System: $350
Pressure Matched German Bosch 2300psi Injectors: $400 (included is a $10/injector core charge)
A-Team Turbo w/ Blanket: $927 (Included is $60 shipping)
Clutch: $300 (Truck came with Solid Mass Flywheel if anybody cares)
A-Pillar gauge cluster with Boost and Pyro gauges: $250


Total Cost: $7227 total investment

Adds up quick doesn't it? I'd hate to run my numbers but may do so and post up on my build thread so as not to clutter yours.

Good job on the build and thanks for making the dyno runs.

I'll be up that way eventually, hope to link up.

 

[6.5L]

Nope, block has not been touched. I have been nothing but impressed with the 6500. I am going to leave it stock. It has taken quite a beating so far and held up great. I even ran 23psi through it with my GM-3 and it didn't blow a head gasket and it has survived countless 4000rpm shifts. I'm very happy with it.

 

[OrionThade]

Nope, block has not been touched. I have been nothing but impressed with the 6500. I am going to leave it stock. It has taken quite a beating so far and held up great. I even ran 23psi through it with my GM-3 and it didn't blow a head gasket and it has survived countless 4000rpm shifts. I'm very happy with it.

Good to know. So you're getting 274HP with, essentially, nothing but bolt-on mods. Damned impressive in my book.

 

[6.5L]

One of the main points of my build was to prove what was capable with just bolt on mods. 95% of people don't have to time to be tearing into their motors for things. I sure don't. I can't afford more than a day of downtime with my truck. It is my daily driver and I have nothing else to drive.

 

[nmb2]

So here's my question:

NMB2, how much customization did you have in your 6.9 and how much real money (not including whatever discounts you got for your IP and turbo) did you spend to get numbers you dyno'd at? What was it, 300 HP and 650 ft/lbs TQ?

Not really a whole lot of custom in my 6.9 itself. Just a rebuilt, re blueprinted, and studded engine. I shaved the pistons myself, I built the turbo kit myself, and I started the DB4 pump program.

I dynoed those numbers with a version 1 prototype pump, which I was lied to about its actual specs, which is why both of my peaks were @ about 2200rpms. The new pump, which I myself modified will be done soon and I'm pretty optimistic the new numbers will pay off this go around. As for money into my engine alone.... I'm in the $6k-$7k range for a 0 mile, fresh engine.

 

[6.5L]

Now factor in the cost of the truck and transmission into what you have just into the motor. I can imagine it gets pretty pricey.

 

[nmb2]

Now factor in the cost of the truck and transmission into what you have just into the motor. I can imagine it gets pretty pricey.

Paid $1500 for my truck, it came with a 5spd and I had to spend $1,000 on a clutch to hold the power. I already had a stereo to put into it, I had a friend do the paint/body work, another friend do the powdercoat.... and a friend of a friend doing my interior.... Guess I know some pretty good friends... but I don't get stuff for free, I pay my friends... I just trust them to do it more than I trust joe-blow's shop down the street.

All in all, probably about $12k into the truck, not that I intend on selling it, but that's not bad considering my insurance company came out and did a stated value on it, for the full coverage and valued it @ $17,500.

 

[6.5L]

Point being you had to spend substantially more. You make more power than mine, but as far as money/power ratio goes, I think the 6.5L is well ahead of the 6.9/7.3. I'm not dogging on the 6.9/7.3 at all. I like them. I'm mainly pointing out that the 6.5L is not the dog that everybody thinks they are. Once I finish tweaking some things here in the next few weeks, torque should come up very substantially and horsepower I sure hope will crest the 300rwhp mark. I am not getting my hopes up but I think it's possible in time. Not bad all things considered.

 

[buddy]

You might actually surpass nmb2's dyno numbers after you turn up your stock pump a little and add water meth Then we will have to calculate the fuel to power ratio, and realize that it can be more efficient than thought.

 

[nmb2]

Point being you had to spend substantially more. You make more power than mine, but as far as money/power ratio goes, I think the 6.5L is well ahead of the 6.9/7.3. I'm not dogging on the 6.9/7.3 at all. I like them. I'm mainly pointing out that the 6.5L is not the dog that everybody thinks they are. Once I finish tweaking some things here in the next few weeks, torque should come up very substantially and horsepower I sure hope will crest the 300rwhp mark. I am not getting my hopes up but I think it's possible in time. Not bad all things considered.

Here is the point you guys seem to keep missing though. I elected to go this far with my build. I didn't have to take it as far as I did to get those, but I did, because I don't cut corners. You act as if 300/650 is the peak potential of my engine... I'm simply running an injection pump that is only capable of 300/650 on my engine... I'm out of fuel. This new pump is going to SMASH those numbers. Also, I make 200rwtq more than you, 1,000rpms sooner than you, in a drive train with more drag than yours. If you want a dyno queen then rpm doesn't matter. If you want a work horse, it does.

Lets Compare ET/trap times. Lets strap a 12,000lb trailer behind both rigs, go hit up Vantage or the like... and see who wins to the top. I would bet my annual salary it would be me, by a substantial margin.

I want to see your dyno sheet. Lets compare HP and TQ at the same RPM and see how it looks.... I want to know how much HP and TQ you made between 1600-2500rpm

If you want to compare apples to apples, compare your build to Racin's build. He has a 100% stock 7.3 long block. Built his own turbo kit, and used an XX31 turbo cal. 240rwhp/480rwtq, at a usable RPM... and once again.. out of fuel.

You guys make HP the same way a honda B18 does. With high RPM's. Thats why you have good looking HP, and lousy torque.

I don't know how this turned into a debate about an IH IDI vs a DD IDI again.... but if you set the hook, I'll take the bait everytime.

 

[buddy]

Not all of them make their power at high RPMs, stock with the electronic DS4 is rated at 430ftlbs at 1800rpm. It can do a lot more. You can see this with the dyno sheet from a DS4 and GM4 turbo truck. That still make max hp at 3400rpm, but have flat torque from 2000 to 3400rpm. It depends how fast your fuel comes on, how much fuel you have and how fast your turbo spools. This just happens to be where 6.5L likes his truck. And he is at high elevation, comparatively, so not great to get on the pedal real quick.

 

[nmb2]

Not all of them make their power at high RPMs, stock with the electronic DS4 is rated at 430ftlbs at 1800rpm. It can do a lot more. You can see this with the dyno sheet from a DS4 and GM4 turbo truck. That still make max hp at 3400rpm, but have flat torque from 2000 to 3400rpm. It depends how fast your fuel comes on, how much fuel you have and how fast your turbo spools. This just happens to be where 6.5L likes his truck. And he is at high elevation, comparatively, so not great to get on the pedal real quick.

Post a sheet up.

 

[OrionThade]

This new pump is going to SMASH those numbers.

Game, Set, Match.

I made a whole long post ... but this says it all. You're an arrogant, self-righteous, pious a$$. This is EXACTLY what you said when you started your build. You kept up with this piety until your dyno numbers came back at 100 HP lower than you 'guaranteed' they would hit.

Here are the facts: A stock 6.5 with bolt on mods made 20 HP/200 TQ less than your engine that has a larger displacement and longer stroke and has quite a few internal mods.

Also, comparing a 7.3IDI to a 6.5L is NOT an apples to apples comparison. The 7.3 has a larger displacement and more than a half-inch longer stroke. And yet it pulls lower HP than 6.5l's rig.

Say what you will, but again I say that you're an arrogant a$$.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

opcorn:

 

[littleboy]

Raw torque is where it's at an that's something the 6.5 lacks.

 

[nmb2]

Game, Set, Match.

I made a whole long post ... but this says it all. You're an arrogant, self-righteous, pious a$$. This is EXACTLY what you said when you started your build. You kept up with this piety until your dyno numbers came back at 100 HP lower than you 'guaranteed' they would hit.

I was lied to about my Injection pump. I was told I had a 150cc pump that would max fuel to 2700rpm. I had a 120cc pump that max fueled to 2300. Pretty big difference.

Here are the facts: A stock 6.5 with bolt on mods made 20 HP/200 TQ less than your engine that has a larger displacement and longer stroke and has quite a few internal mods.

Everything on my engine is considered bolt on as well, is it not? It came naturally aspirated remember. Other than my shaved pistons, what internal mods do I have?

Also, comparing a 7.3IDI to a 6.5L is NOT an apples to apples comparison. The 7.3 has a larger displacement and more than a half-inch longer stroke. And yet it pulls lower HP than 6.5l's rig.

6.5l's engine made 30rwhp more @ 800rpm higher. 50rwtq less @ 1000rpm higher. I thought the pride and joy of a diesel was torque? Not spinning Gasser RPM's to get your power up.

Say what you will, but again I say that you're an arrogant a$$.

Thanks br0.