Converting to the DB2 as the DS4 just plain SUX...

[FellowTraveler]

OK, I’ve decided to go with a DB2 just haven’t decided which one yet. I see many surplus pumps new, rebuilt and used but I’m looking for one with all the brackets included ‘found a few already however they are 24v so I have to change out the solenoid to 12v etc.’

Am I correct ‘that the newer DB2 pumps use the same injector lines as the DS4, or?’

I know I’ve advocated w/vigor the dual thermostat setup for a long time however I’m guessing a later model HMMWV single thermostat housing will be just fine and clear the DB2 linkage etc. reducing my need to fabricate. If it proves to be a problem then I can fabricate something.

I’m at a loss since the flooding here I lost 90% of my shop equipment and replacing all of it now, most of the tools have been cleaned and oiled while cleanup goes slow.

I’m digging into the service manuals electrical schematics to create a plan of attack, I think I remember in8n8or making some comment about the crank sensor being used instead of the TPS for stand-alone transmission controller he used.

I welcome any input or ideas as it relates to this conversion I’m mulling switching the t-case to a NP241 because of the AutoTrac I have but would consider keeping the NP246 if I do a ‘work around to keep it functioning.’

Tanking everyone in advance!

 

[Will L.]

Dont sell your vssb you still need it.

2 wire crankshaft sensor
Part # 5714531
Or NSN # 01-455-8424
This will take the place of your 3 wire, but idk if it is needed if you use an optishift to control the trans. Having control over the trans would be a nice thing, seriously consider getting a stand alone. Instead of crank sensor you could get an ESS- Engine Speed Sensor which is an oilpump drive with an rpm sensor on top. This is required to send signal to the TCM, which you'll have to buy from 95 or older Hummer, any hmmwv that had 4l80e, 93?-92? Or older truck/van.

The db2 should have a tps on it, but if you get 24v, you have to buy 12v also
By the time you buy: tcm,cps or ess, consider you still don't have "control" of the trans, it just works. Thats why I mention really looking into stand alone units vs all this, and oh yeah, the wiring between all these items.

Iirc Leroy is using a db2 and a dual thermostat, but he flipped the stat housing upsidedown. Idk if he is able to use throttle and cruise control that way. Search his thread on p400 -iirc.

On the old db2 the fittings for the lines were different thread, but enough people have removed db2 from military take outs they should be cheap.

If your timing cover does not have the score mark in it for timing the db2, timing it will be annoying. Used to be multiple tools available like the snapon with the pickup device that wears out as you use it. Or the Mac ET18DPM diesel pulse adapter which requires a timing light also.
There is a kentmoore tool for stamping the timing mark in the cover, but I forgot that number. Knowing the exact sound of your engine, you can time I to mimic the same sound, but it wont be perfect.

And since I like pictures:


Incase anyone sees one with words rubbed off ata yard sale for $20...youll make your money back. Yes thats the instructions paper incase anyone needs a copy.

I bet an electronics guy like @greenmeanh1 could build a unit like my Mac and sell them for extra cash (hint), I remember seeing lots of guys looking to buy the snapon because it was more popularly known to exist. But imo one that doesn't have parts to wear out is better and gets its signal from the injector firing instead of an adjustable timing tab.

Remember to lower your LP pressure, unless you get a moose or have uniquediesel.com build you a custom one...

There has to be more I can ramble on about but Im sure someone can post the same thing in 1/4 the space...

 

[Will L.]

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/the-db2-conversion-guide.30127/#post-354912

All db2 conversion threads are required by 6.5 law to include this link.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

You will need a tps for any stand alone controller, and an engine speed signal is highly reccomended. Going to the expensive oil pump drive with the speed sensor would be foolish when you already have the crank sensor with a hall effect sensor and a 4 tooth tone wheel right on the crank. Myself I would go with a single stat system as they have been proven to be more than adequite.

If you want performance on par with a maxxed out ds4 tune, then skip any of the stock gm db2's as they cannot push as much fuel as the ds4 can(been proven a 4911 pushes around 82-85mm3 of fuel iirc whereas a ds4 can push 92mm3 of fuel or so. Pretty sure you will need lines no matter which db2 you go with as the fittings are physically smaller on a db2 vs a ds4.

If you decide to ditch your autotrac case, I got pretty much everything you need sitting in my shed collecting dust. I've got both driveshafts(rear shaft was almost new when I put it in the shed in 09) and the transfer case. The inly piece you will need to find is the shift arm that ataches the transfer case shift linkage to the case. I had to use it for my swap as the 261's arm was the wrong length for the mechanical linkage of the gmt-400(i stuck the 261 arm back on the 241 case). I'd let it all go cheap to get it out of my way if you come and load it up(my back wont let me do squat anymore).

 

[FellowTraveler]

You will need a tps for any stand alone controller, and an engine speed signal is highly reccomended. Going to the expensive oil pump drive with the speed sensor would be foolish when you already have the crank sensor with a hall effect sensor and a 4 tooth tone wheel right on the crank. Myself I would go with a single stat system as they have been proven to be more than adequite.

If you want performance on par with a maxxed out ds4 tune, then skip any of the stock gm db2's as they cannot push as much fuel as the ds4 can(been proven a 4911 pushes around 82-85mm3 of fuel iirc whereas a ds4 can push 92mm3 of fuel or so. Pretty sure you will need lines no matter which db2 you go with as the fittings are physically smaller on a db2 vs a ds4.

If you decide to ditch your autotrac case, I got pretty much everything you need sitting in my shed collecting dust. I've got both driveshafts(rear shaft was almost new when I put it in the shed in 09) and the transfer case. The inly piece you will need to find is the shift arm that ataches the transfer case shift linkage to the case. I had to use it for my swap as the 261's arm was the wrong length for the mechanical linkage of the gmt-400(i stuck the 261 arm back on the 241 case). I'd let it all go cheap to get it out of my way if you come and load it up(my back wont let me do squat anymore).

I suspect I'll make things as easy as possible as my back is shot too & w/all the titanium holding it together limits my movement, I get it done but slowly.

I'm going to PM you, I like the NP241 & making a shifting arm is no biggie, I'm guessing your about 1 hour or a little more from me.

 

[Will L.]

Now Ferm, no taking him for a ride in the duraburb until his first project is done. Get him hooked on that nextyear.

Two broken old guys getting together better hire a young pup or two for getting it loaded, or youll be visiting the e.r. (Says me after needing a break working on the 300d for only 3 hours).

 

[n8in8or]

Not mich to add that hadn't already been said except that now that I've done my swap so far I have no regrets going to the single stat. I've noticed my water temps actually stay much more constant than they did before with the dual stats and I had the good Delco stats in it.

For the US Shift you don't NEED an RPM signal, but it does give the unit more functionality and you have all the pieces there already to do it.

Good luck! I don't regret my swap one bit.

 

[Will L.]

Yeah, the 2 wire rpm sensor is only required by the GM tcm as far as I can tell.

@n8in8or your single stat has the block off style tstat, right?

 

[n8in8or]

Yeah, the 2 wire rpm sensor is only required by the GM tcm as far as I can tell.

@n8in8or your single stat has the block off style tstat, right?

Yes it does. I imagine that's part of the improvement - the bypass flow restrictor we do in the dual stat system is an improvement, but not a fix-all.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Now Ferm, no taking him for a ride in the duraburb until his first project is done. Get him hooked on that nextyear.

Two broken old guys getting together better hire a young pup or two for getting it loaded, or youll be visiting the e.r. (Says me after needing a break working on the 300d for only 3 hours).

I'm only 35, so I would normally be categorized as one of the young pups, but stupidity is painfull, and I was just in the ER last week for problems.

And I'm about an hour and 15 minutes away from you if traffic through Brookesville is light.

 

[Quadstar Tuning LLC]

I'm working to tweak the obd2 PCM code to TCM only but it's not ready yet. That would make your life much easier.

Sent from Tapatalk

 

[Will L.]

N8in8or,

Ok, thought so. Forcing all the coolant to keep flowing through the engine makes it heat up all the water more evenly instead of dead heading the pump.

It's funny so many people have better run with single- just seems counter intuitive, but results dont lie.

Ferm, some say age is a state of mind, I say state of body- and with your issues you get a few years in the penalty box. It's ok- so do I. Im 45 going on 60 with my hiccups.

 

[n8in8or]

I'm only 35, so I would normally be categorized as one of the young pups, but stupidity is painfull, and I was just in the ER last week for problems.

And I'm about an hour and 15 minutes away from you if traffic through Brookesville is light.

Watching my dad's quality of life after abusing his back makes me think twice before I just grab onto something. It seems to be a fine line between using it and getting stronger and abusing it and blowing it out.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Heredity plays a roll in back issues too.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Watching my dad's quality of life after abusing his back makes me think twice before I just grab onto something. It seems to be a fine line between using it and getting stronger and abusing it and blowing it out.

Mine was ultimate stupidity. Played crash test dummy when I was 20(passenger in a 60mph head on with an oak tree), was told I wouldnt make it through the night, then I'd never walk again, and just to prove them wrong I kept going at it hard. Turned 32 and the brick wall SLAMMED me right smack in the face. Now at 35 I can barely walk without screaming unless I'm on narcotics, and forget doing anything. The doc that patched me up the 1st time around told me, I told you to take it easy, all I could say was I'm not wired to sit around and take it easy, I'm either sleeping, or killing myself working. So I look at things differently now, just wished now I would have listened 15 years ago, maybe then I wouldnt be chained to a pain management doctor and pills just so I can play housewife watching my 2 boys.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Now Ferm, no taking him for a ride in the duraburb until his first project is done. Get him hooked on that nextyear.

Two broken old guys getting together better hire a young pup or two for getting it loaded, or youll be visiting the e.r. (Says me after needing a break working on the 300d for only 3 hours).

It's takes a toll when you get injured, when your'e young you can mostly shake it off however it always comes back to haunt you later. At times I feel all the pain from all those years and remember exactly what caused it, I've beaten back the pain by keeping my mind occupied with everything that interests me and it works for the most part use little or no pain med's and one other med.

Anyway, I like the the Benz 300d.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Not mich to add that hadn't already been said except that now that I've done my swap so far I have no regrets going to the single stat. I've noticed my water temps actually stay much more constant than they did before with the dual stats and I had the good Delco stats in it.

For the US Shift you don't NEED an RPM signal, but it does give the unit more functionality and you have all the pieces there already to do it.

Good luck! I don't regret my swap one bit.

Your conversion inspired me.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I'm only 35, so I would normally be categorized as one of the young pups, but stupidity is painfull, and I was just in the ER last week for problems.

And I'm about an hour and 15 minutes away from you if traffic through Brookesville is light.

Wish you well with your medical issues, keep that brilliant mechanical mind distracted and the pain will not take a front seat so often in your future IMO, it works for me.

 

[FellowTraveler]

N8in8or,

Ok, thought so. Forcing all the coolant to keep flowing through the engine makes it heat up all the water more evenly instead of dead heading the pump.

It's funny so many people have better run with single- just seems counter intuitive, but results dont lie.

Ferm, some say age is a state of mind, I say state of body- and with your issues you get a few years in the penalty box. It's ok- so do I. Im 45 going on 60 with my hiccups.

Yep, I'm making the switch to the military single stat found most of the parts already, just have to hit up Leroy for the TC.

On another note: Suffering in later years from many accumulated injuries get's tough however IMO pain med's are a patch best avoided if you want a better quality of life. I'm constantly getting relatives and close friends to get rid of or reduce their dependency on pharmaceuticals period..natural/organic is hands down the best way to go but costly too.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I'm working to tweak the obd2 PCM code to TCM only but it's not ready yet. That would make your life much easier.

Sent from Tapatalk

Interesting, any ETA yet, or?