Ed HD
Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY
It's a Dodge, don't you do an Oil Change and a trans R&R every 7k? :hihi:
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The Stealth BOMB'r is under the knife
- Thread starter Cumminalong
- Start date
searstractorfan
New Member
Just for giggles, if say a person walked into your shop and wanted done what you have done(minus all the fancy touches like the battery relocation and the hitch and misc stuff like that) about what would it cost??? I see all this performance and all the upgrades, but how bad does it hurt your bank account??
Ozzie
Snow looming...run!!
I'm betting the parts don't even come close to comparing to the time for fabrication.
Pretty amazing all the work he's done here.
Pretty amazing all the work he's done here.
searstractorfan
New Member
id say i can safely say that I cant afford the mods hes done if a shop did them for me....Yes the time factor would KILL the bill....
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
First, let me preface this with this. I WILL NOT do half azz work. If you don't want it done right and don't want to spend the money on good parts, I'll tell ya to take it somewhere else. Doing things half azz because someone is being cheap causes me azz pain. Cheap parts get cheap results, it's as simple as that. Can you cut corners on some things? Sure. Just don't ask me to do it on a motor or trans, otherwise I'll tell ya to find someone else to do the work. It's always the guy that cheaps out on a build that is the first to bad mouth you and say you don't know how to build something. It's that same guy that wants 700 HP and wants to use his stock turbo as the secondary on a set of twins or thinks he can get away with just a billet input shaft on the trans. His crap breaks and the next thing you know he's on the forums going, "Rich's built me a POS motor." No, no, no, knuckle nuts, you're the tool bag that wanted to turn 4200 RPM's and make 70 lbs of boost but thought you'd be okay on stock valve springs and pushrods.
Okay, rant off.
When I added up what the bill would have been in labor if I had to pay someone to do what I did during the motor build, it was rediculous.
I had 54 actually working days x 6 hours a day x $55 an hour. This was conservative as it was actually closer to 8 hours a day on average.
Total labor bill would have been $17,820, not including fluids, shop supplies, etc.
That's just strait labor and doesn't include the fab and or electrical work.
My normal strait labor rate is $55 an hour.
Electical is $75.
Fabrication is $95.
That's actually pretty cheap, mainly because I don't have huge over head. I only have 2 guys that work for me, but I have lots of folks on "shop credit".....ya know, that 16 year old kid that doesn't have money for brakes or ball joints or a battery or whatever. 1 hour of my time = 4 hours of their time. Need things cleaned, painted, stuff taken to the dump, run the parts to the parts store.......you get the idea. Never underestimate the value of cheap labor.
Now, the actual labor cost for something like this, including labor, electrical and fab work would have been $23,760.
Now, a simple trans R&R, that's about $700 not including parts and fluids. When you start wanting custom valve bodies, increased clutches, steel inserts in the aluminum cases, oversized shafts, etc.....that gets expensive. If you want a torque converter freshened, that runs between $350 and $600.
Everything is relative and the HP to cost curve gets really steep, really fast.
My total in parts on this wasn't that rediculous. Rough estimate.....I'd say I spent $5K in parts. I could have cut that by $1500 if I didn't have to buy a new set of pistons after they F'd mine up.
Okay, rant off.
When I added up what the bill would have been in labor if I had to pay someone to do what I did during the motor build, it was rediculous.
I had 54 actually working days x 6 hours a day x $55 an hour. This was conservative as it was actually closer to 8 hours a day on average.
Total labor bill would have been $17,820, not including fluids, shop supplies, etc.
That's just strait labor and doesn't include the fab and or electrical work.
My normal strait labor rate is $55 an hour.
Electical is $75.
Fabrication is $95.
That's actually pretty cheap, mainly because I don't have huge over head. I only have 2 guys that work for me, but I have lots of folks on "shop credit".....ya know, that 16 year old kid that doesn't have money for brakes or ball joints or a battery or whatever. 1 hour of my time = 4 hours of their time. Need things cleaned, painted, stuff taken to the dump, run the parts to the parts store.......you get the idea. Never underestimate the value of cheap labor.
Now, the actual labor cost for something like this, including labor, electrical and fab work would have been $23,760.
Now, a simple trans R&R, that's about $700 not including parts and fluids. When you start wanting custom valve bodies, increased clutches, steel inserts in the aluminum cases, oversized shafts, etc.....that gets expensive. If you want a torque converter freshened, that runs between $350 and $600.
Everything is relative and the HP to cost curve gets really steep, really fast.
My total in parts on this wasn't that rediculous. Rough estimate.....I'd say I spent $5K in parts. I could have cut that by $1500 if I didn't have to buy a new set of pistons after they F'd mine up.
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Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
You must have never seen what the big HP Duramax's run behind them......a 48re.
The allison is the best trans in stock form, but in built form, it has too many parts and isn't as strong as a 48.
TorqueShifts.......well, let's just say it's a typical Ford product. That friggin thing soaks up 60 hp just turning it.
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
Okay, I've been asked this a time or two, so I figured I'd break it down Crayola style so folks could see what you're REALLY in for when you start thinking about going buck wild with the mods.
This is an approximation of what you'll spend on PARTS ONLY to make a given amount of HP. This does not include labor or parts you can sell to recoup cost, etc.....this is just strait parts to make a truck that is POWERFUL and RELIABLE and can do everything you'd expect to do with a truck.
Remember, there are 3 things you can have when you do a build. You can have it Cheap, Reliable and Powerful.....but, you only get 2 of those at any one time. (i.e. it can be cheap and reliable, but it won't be powerful, etc.)
In the chart below, the yellow, orange and red marks represent a few key spots. These are mainly places that you need to upgrade shafts (i.e. input, intermediate, output). The 600 HP mark is where it gets a LOT more expensive for the Duramax's. This is where the motor needs to come out and rods need to get replaced and you might as well do the whole motor at this point.
This is an approximation of what you'll spend on PARTS ONLY to make a given amount of HP. This does not include labor or parts you can sell to recoup cost, etc.....this is just strait parts to make a truck that is POWERFUL and RELIABLE and can do everything you'd expect to do with a truck.
Remember, there are 3 things you can have when you do a build. You can have it Cheap, Reliable and Powerful.....but, you only get 2 of those at any one time. (i.e. it can be cheap and reliable, but it won't be powerful, etc.)
In the chart below, the yellow, orange and red marks represent a few key spots. These are mainly places that you need to upgrade shafts (i.e. input, intermediate, output). The 600 HP mark is where it gets a LOT more expensive for the Duramax's. This is where the motor needs to come out and rods need to get replaced and you might as well do the whole motor at this point.
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- Staff
- #348
Quite a few of em are getting away from the DURAFLITES because of all the torque converter freshenings that are needed. Several of teh top trucks now are backed by ALLISONS as the development has come quite a ways in recent years with ECM tuning and trans mods, as well as the new clutch materials that are coming out. Trents in the 9's without hardened shafts in his truck right now.
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
There's always a way and every situation is different.
What works for one guy doesn't work for another.
Trent's truck is a trailer queen, Pro Street truck on a diet. It comes in on and leaves on a trailer. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a purpose built truck.
The only way you'll get stock shafts to run in the 9's is as EXTREMELY light weight truck or you have a torque converter that is so loose that it doesn't stall until way past the engines TQ peak. If it stalls at a point that the motor is under 1000 ft/lbs, then sure, the stock shafts will last, but that's not a trans you can daily drive or tow with.
That's why you see less breakage in the high RPM motors than you do with guys trying to keep the RPM's in the torque peak.....torque is what breaks the parts. Once you get the enignes up past 3000 RPM's, you're outside that peak and breakage is a lot less likely. Push mid 4000's to mid 5000's and you're making torque similar to a gas motor. That's how you avoid the breakage in the trans.
I see guys at the track running auto's with no trans coolers; nothing more than a piece of stainless braided that goes out and comes right back in. It's also the same ones you see with a leaf blower pointed at it between rounds to cool it off.
Everything has an application and there are ways to accomplish anything. But, I would much rather freshen a torque converter than have to freshen the trans all the time.
Remember, it's a LOT easier to build a one hit wonder (i.e. race or sled truck) than it is to build one that can do everything. Purpose built makes it easy, the path is strait and narrow. One that you can do everything with and still stomp the snot out of the hot rods is a totally different animal.
What works for one guy doesn't work for another.
Trent's truck is a trailer queen, Pro Street truck on a diet. It comes in on and leaves on a trailer. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a purpose built truck.
The only way you'll get stock shafts to run in the 9's is as EXTREMELY light weight truck or you have a torque converter that is so loose that it doesn't stall until way past the engines TQ peak. If it stalls at a point that the motor is under 1000 ft/lbs, then sure, the stock shafts will last, but that's not a trans you can daily drive or tow with.
That's why you see less breakage in the high RPM motors than you do with guys trying to keep the RPM's in the torque peak.....torque is what breaks the parts. Once you get the enignes up past 3000 RPM's, you're outside that peak and breakage is a lot less likely. Push mid 4000's to mid 5000's and you're making torque similar to a gas motor. That's how you avoid the breakage in the trans.
I see guys at the track running auto's with no trans coolers; nothing more than a piece of stainless braided that goes out and comes right back in. It's also the same ones you see with a leaf blower pointed at it between rounds to cool it off.
Everything has an application and there are ways to accomplish anything. But, I would much rather freshen a torque converter than have to freshen the trans all the time.
Remember, it's a LOT easier to build a one hit wonder (i.e. race or sled truck) than it is to build one that can do everything. Purpose built makes it easy, the path is strait and narrow. One that you can do everything with and still stomp the snot out of the hot rods is a totally different animal.
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Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
Here we go again.
Time to rip it apart and make room for the new twins. The setup is going to be a Borg S364 over a Borg S480.
Time to rip it apart and make room for the new twins. The setup is going to be a Borg S364 over a Borg S480.
83GMCK2500
Active Member
HOLY CRAP! You just took it off of the rack. I'm starting to think you need different knife threads. Engine rebuild, trans rebuild, twins upgrade... 
Please continue, it is great to read and see the pictures.
Please continue, it is great to read and see the pictures.
red
Being a lake bum in Texas
looking foreward to this step
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
The motor will be out tomorrow, so long as the hoist holds out.
We were putting the motor back in the Chevelle a few weeks ago and the ram started leaking.
The new ram will be here this week, but I want the motor out and on the stand today.
Got about an hour or so of work left to disconnect the accessory crap and gauges and then it'll be ready to lift.
We were putting the motor back in the Chevelle a few weeks ago and the ram started leaking.
The new ram will be here this week, but I want the motor out and on the stand today.
Got about an hour or so of work left to disconnect the accessory crap and gauges and then it'll be ready to lift.
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
HOLY CRAP! You just took it off of the rack. I'm starting to think you need different knife threads. Engine rebuild, trans rebuild, twins upgrade...
Yeah, I just got it back on the road and noticed the head gasket leaking.
I re-used the head studs, which I told myself not too, after I had loosened and re-torqued them a few times and they stretched the first time I really smashed it and lifted the head.
Broke one of my own rules and it bit me in the azz.
Soooooo, other than the bigger twins going on, I gotta replace the head gasket and put the new studs in.
No regular studs this time, it's getting the ARP 625 Custom's.
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
Heeeeey, look kids.....It's Big Ben....Parliment.
Seems like we were just here not too long ago.
Seems like we were just here not too long ago.
red
Being a lake bum in Texas
looks oddly familiar
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
Yeah, not the look I was going for this soon.
:mad2:
:mad2:
red
Being a lake bum in Texas
any progress lately or are you waiting for parts to arrive as well?
Cumminalong
Doghouse Diesel Performance
Got the motor back together yesterday.
Just gotta start working the turbos now and it'll be ready to go back in.
Sorry, these are all the pcitures I got....had distraction after distraction yesterday.
Just gotta start working the turbos now and it'll be ready to go back in.
Sorry, these are all the pcitures I got....had distraction after distraction yesterday.
- Staff
- #360
Looks good Rich. It will look even better once it is back where it belongs.....