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Pulling apart the old 6.5L before purchasing a new one

R.A.G.S

R.A.G.S

Member
Messages
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Location
Sydney, Australia
Hello again Gents

Here is where I will start the new thread regarding the replacement vs repair of the 6.5L Optimizer Engine in my GU Nissan Patrol.
I am in everyone here’s debt up to this point, (I would mention names but am still learning how to navigate around the site)

As a matter of fact I do have a couple of photo’s to share with the oil pan off see below…

1638649609801.jpeg1638649813233.jpeg1638649648745.jpeg
 
Read his signature line for description, a side read where the conversation started

Another Newbie

Good day everyone I have joined the forum to hopefully learn more about the engine I have chosen in my 4x4 besides the bit I have learnt in the past 2 1/2 years. The engine in question is a 6.5L Optimizer anyone that can help me it would be greatly appreciated!
www.thetruckstop.us

Yeah, now with seeing it opened up...that is some major shreading. Oil cooler and the lines are suspect. Depending what type they are probably replacing them is safer.
I would disassemble the turbo for inspection.

That shaving does match the scenario where he found a lifter roller bearing- then the destroyed lifter rides the camshaft for the next approximately 4,000km (2,500ish miles).

For a shop to jump straight to new long block- doesn’t prove they are a rip off shop - just maybe they are not capable of an engine rebuild. There are shops that just remove/ replace major components. But when you are dealing with an already somewhat pricey engine and have to have it shipped from the other side of the Earth, Without a tear down doesn’t seem like the most economical option to me. But every shop I worked at from small to dealership- all would have called you and said- 100% engine comes out for complete rebuild or replacement. Then given you the option to pay 1-2 hours labor for complete disassembly and inspection to determine what in the engine is ok and what is bad.

Most engines are in the $4000 range but that is a complete assembled engine. So jumping to new engine makes sense often. Ours as a long block is double that. If new ip, lines, injectors, water pump, timing cover gets included like other engines the price is a couple thousand higher yet. (I would do new water pump but reuse the rest personally). So I would REALLY EXPECT a shop to have you gamble $100-$200 labor on maybe rebuilding it. They are going to have to strip it down to a long block anyways to get all the other parts off it, right? Idk, maybe shop rates are much higher there?

Many of the folks on this forum- rebuilding an engine is beyond their capacity from experience or tooling. But almost everyone here can rent an engine hoist and swap the engine themselves. Is this not an option for you? The few tools needed outside basic sockets and wrenches would be air compressor, impact wrench, long extension and impact swivel socket to reach bell housing bolts. And the cost of labor out weighs all that even if one time use and you sell the compressor for half afterwards.
Granted there are a couple points where a second person is really helpful like aligning the new one going back in.
 
Before the replacement engine (which I now worry is a recon job not brand new) I had an offer from a well regarded engine reconditioner that if I had another vehicle repairer remove the engine they will strip it down and clean it to see exactly where the problem lies for $500.
I have my own mechanic who has always changed oil and basic tasks, replace individual parts etc but he said this job is beyond him, the car hoists he has are not made for cars this big, That is 3300kgs

I am also counting on having the car back before the end of January for my next big holiday, which won’t happen if I opt for further investigation first. That being said I’m poised to purchase a second car anyway, I clock 95% of my miles/kilometres up for work purposes. (60,000kms a year)

So I feel like I’m wasting my pride and joy for work instead of keeping it for play so to speak. That is the first reason to buy a another car. The second being we need a tow vehicle for our off road camper trailer next month if this one is off the road for a while.

Yes btw everything is much more expensive here, fortunately I’m paid very well, it is going to set us back a few years to borrow more money but we’ll be back on top again in a few years.
The new engine (recon engine) was offered with a 3 year warranty and 60,000kms, the owner of the business has been using some new German brand of piston which goes in every motor he sells now.

I will call him today and enquire about if a brand new engine from a GEP distributor is an option.
 
I should also mention that the new engine is coming from the other side of the country, it’s a long way away and we here in Sydney are currently not welcome in Western Australia yet due to covid restrictions.

The seller also will be sending me a new oil cooler free of charge and I have asked for a brand new set of injectors, they will not allow the engine to be started until the turbo has been checked and rebuilt if necessary as well as any other suspect parts. The radiator which I only just had rebuilt has to go away to be checked again as well, but other than that I believe all other pumps etc will be reused.
 
R.A.G.S said:
Can someone explain to me exactly what a P400 is? I know the engine recon guy here has the option for P400 but I am confused, is it a whole engine or just the heads? What makes them so much better than Optimizer heads?
Click to expand...
Complete engine, or just the heads if You can find them.
I dont know all the particulars but from what I have read it is the most desirable engine to be had.
 
p400 is a 6.5 engine with option designation. Like making a car a convertible.
Really,

The p400 is a complete different engine that share same parts. Block, crankshaft, rods, pistons, heads are all different. The oil pan will sit lower because the p400 has a full girdle/ aka bed plate. Basically the US military uses the 6.5 in hmmwvs. And when the weight kf the vehicle trippled, and they wanted it faster also- they built the 6.5 engine into dream like performance and life span status skipping only 3 items to make it a hand built perfect engine. Many of us had piggy banks saving up money for the day we bought ours. Now wish we had gone intk debt to get them when we could.

They quit making the block and bed plate because of ending the endless war in the Middle East. All the replacement parts like heads are still made. If they have any NEW p400 you can buy STRONGLY consider it. There is one in a motor home that a forum member here built a few years back that caught fire. Probably 20 people seriously trying to figure a way to buy it from the insurance company. A similar story with a guy that his hummer got totaled snd insurance is selling it off, people talking about buying it and putting in regular 6.5 then reselling it hoping to loose only a few thousand in doing so.

If they have a p400 that can be rebuilt STRONGLY consider it.

The difference in a short block and long block is the heads being installed. All the parts that go with it- push rods, rockers, valve covers, etc are all exactly the same parts 6.5 and p400. Difference in optimizer heads versus p400 heads is $600ish more for the set. But they flow better (hair better power and mpg), don’t suffer the heat damage of cracking between the valves, longer time between valve jobs. Won’t warp as bad for next rebuilding time.
The best engine improvements to make that are in this price range
Balanced flow water system with best fanclutch and fan.
Balancing the lower rotating assembly, and gapless rings
Fluidampr balancer with billet pulley.
Upgraded fuel system- lift pump/filtration with pressure gauge.
P400 heads

Improving cooling system is a must or it will destroy any engine including a p400.
Then balanced lowers obviously has to happen with engine apart.

the fluidampr and pulley can be done anytime and new engines always hae new balancer so you can drive 100,000 miles while saving up for it. If the engine is rebuild- do it now because rebuilders will use the old one since that is normal practice for most engines.

Obviously heads are best during build.
 
R.A.G.S said:
I am also counting on having the car back before the end of January for my next big holiday,
Click to expand...

Bluntly this is a very bad idea and a unrealistic expectation. Some part is going to be delayed, something will leak, not be right, a bolt will break adding 3 days to the job, and then need 500 miles to "break in" before towing. You are spending a lot more money to "hurry up" and may not get results: new longblock or not.

I would make other plans that do not involve this vehicle being "ready".

The engine may just need a cam, new lifters and new bearings. Do gapless rings or any rings while you are there.

The P400 may have trouble fitting, need a custom oil pan, etc. Well worth the trouble if you can get your hands on one.
 
Well said. I type books and forget paragraphs I meant to include.
Buy a beater for your trip and re sell it after the Nissan is finished properly.
Full coverage insurance on the beater with towing is a good idea. Small break down= tow and repair. Major break down, hopefully it also tears a fuel line and burns to the ground so insurance buys it from you and now you don’t have to sell it later.
 
Hello Gents
I have an update, yesterday the seller of the new engine called as well as the mechanic that will be doing the job.
The car wont have work started on it until the 25th of January. This means I will have to purchase another towing vehicle, more on that later.

I asked the seller about the new engine, it is a brand new engine direct from GEP motor and heads.
He buys a lot of the other parts from Stanadyne, the motor is sold to him from a company based in New York correct me if I’m wrong here please but I think he said International Engine something something…

I have asked for the up spec 300 hp injector pump, it’s costing an extra 3k but unlike the 200 hp injector pump on it now will never be working to capacity, he’s throwing in a better brand lifter pump for free.
he‘s basically going to prepare a complete working engine and bench test (I have asked him to adjust the fuel on the lean side rather than the rich side this time) then pack in a crate and sent to the East coast where the mechanic will have already removed the old engine and sent away the turbo for inspection and repair if necessary.
 
So you see there won’t be any rushing and basically the mechanic won’t be rushed anyway, he plans on keeping the car for a week after it’s completed to drive here and there and test and adjust accordingly.

I have no idea when I will get my car back and it’s an hour away from my place so it’s not like I can just pop in when I want. It will be out of my hands until I’m asked to come pick it up.
The mechanics bill including the repairs to the turbo if any and the radiator etc is going to be around $4500
The bill for the engine complete with injector pump will be $15500 but I’ll get $3400 back when I return them the old engine complete with old injector pump, so all told figure around $17000…
 
I qouted my post from your first thread. Pay attention to who we said to avoid- guess where that engine is coming from.
I will be honest and say I was 99.99% sure where it was coming when you said they would buy the destroyed one back. See the list below and note which is in NY.

Will L. said:
Leroy Diesel is a trustable vendor here.

Unique Diesel is partners with Twisted Steel Performance- another trustable vendor here.
Twisted Steel actually works with an Australian company that makes superchargers and custom intake that has a water to air cooler inside it. He is the one you should probably work with. Any internal upgrades like gapless ring he MIGHT be able to do before it ships to you. Or if you get a short block and buy p400 heads which is more money but way better. I am trying to scrape together money to put p400 heads on my optimizer.
He also does coatings, porting, custom pistons, etc.
Send him a PM .
@Twisted Steel Performance

For future reference:
Predator on the list is questionable- work seems ok but price is crazy and not always honest. Hummers primarily.

Kascar also hummer primary, good company.
Rubber Duck another hummer good company.

US engine production- HELL NO! They have multiple business names they operate under and with. One of which is Bostic mentioned above. Do not trust a thing they say or do.



View attachment 69093
Click to expand...
 
So back to the “other towing vehicle”, this vehicle not only needs to tow my camper trailer this time round but will become my full time work vehicle for the foreseeable future, I have made a choice based on a few mechanics I know recommendations.
I‘m looking for an Isuzu engine called a 4JJ 3.0L, Isuzu put them in 2 cars here in Australia the D-Max and the Mu-X.
Im looking for an Mu-X ideally more suited for work purposes but I won’t rule out the Dual cab Ute completely.
 
I have no earthly idea what it would take for you to buy an engine directly from one of the other companies listed.
Kascar
Leroy
Rubber Duck
or Unique

Use any of them. I get no free stick of bubble gum from any of them. I just been in the 6.5 world since it was the 6.2 world before anyone had a turbo on any of them. I have seen TOO MANY HEARTACHE STORIES.
I know this engine and recommended it many times. If that supplier is your only option- then walk away and get a Cummins or LS or Toyota engine instead.
I know a guy here in Las Vegas that bought a NEW one from them. He wanted to do some upgrades like balancing lower rotation assembly. So first thing done was to pull apart the new engine and it was CLEARLY a remanufactured one and it was done WRONG! That engine would have failed within a year of easy use. He lost 2,000 after returning it. SO MANY PEOPLE had nightmares from those pukes.
 
Will L. said:
I qouted my post from your first thread. Pay attention to who we said to avoid- guess where that engine is coming from.
I will be honest and say I was 99.99% sure where it was coming when you said they would buy the destroyed one back. See the list below and note which is in NY.
Click to expand...
Well what can I say? I have no control over those details, I trust my seller and he has been affiliated with that company for a long time, I guess if they have that many subsidiary companies under them there’s going to be dodgy dealings somewhere along the way…
As far as I’m concerned a brand new engine is a brand new engine, there has to come a point where you trust someone at face value…
Wouldn‘t you think my seller would have been burnt at some point through dealing with them by now?

What have they been up to in the past that’s given them such a bad name around here ?
I am curious…
 
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