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Pulling apart the old 6.5L before purchasing a new one

Oh yeah $3000 more for the 300 hp injection pump...
unless there is a metric hp - something is off here.
Get the specs of that pump. More importantly ask which company is building it. The ou have the same issue of injection pump builders- DARN FEW that do it right- most have problems right in the first 6 months and I would say half of the pumps that are built for that power do not last 100,000 miles.

In fact, I can not think of one reputable builder in the last 20 years that ever advertised their pump as a “250hp” or “300hp” pump. Why? Because it doesn’t work that way. It is as bad a rip off as the hacks on ebay selling injectors as “+40hp” units.

what gave them a bad name?
How about the fact that they listed authorize company name but they buy the engines under is a different listed company name than you are buying it from. Why is that? Because once they burn GEP, GEP will not deal with them anymore. And all of the customer complaints come up that they were bought from Bostic motors or New York motors or US diesel motors or what was the name they gave you this time? Get it? The business shell game. Once they Get sued bad enough that the government orders them to close down and seize their assets, they have already sold off all those assets to another company. A company could be owned by their next-door neighbor, or a cousin. And that outfit continues on.

I hope SO MUCH you get a great engine and enjoy your truck For years to come. I hate to see anybody unhappy. You can lead a horse to water but can’t make them drink. I’m trying to leave you away from poison water, but can’t stop you from drinking. Best of luck
 
Because I’m not in the trade and still learning all of this I don’t remember names as well as I probably should someone has to literally beat me around the head a bit before it sinks in, it is likely I have mixed up names and figures, I am expecting an official quote for all of this later today, I maybe able to extract parts of that quote to put up here later on, I do understand you have my best interests at heart, it’s all good!

I can give bullet a call today and see what they have to say about it all, I think they were the mob dealing with twisted steel from memory?

Anyway the deal that’s looking like going ahead at the moment comes with a 36 month warranty and 60,000kms so hopefully that will be enough for any floors to show themselves…

the guy doing all these 6.5‘S does hundreds of conversions just like mine every year, I am not on any social media platforms like fb so it’s hard to hear anything negative but I don’t see a lot of bad press regarding Brunswick Diesel but I’m sure it is out there…
 
R.A.G.S said:
The mechanics bill including the repairs to the turbo if any and the radiator etc is going to be around $4500
The bill for the engine complete with injector pump will be $15500 but I’ll get $3400 back when I return them the old engine complete with old injector pump, so all told figure around $17000…
Click to expand...

Does this price come with some KY lube or are they raping you without? o_O💫

The engine longblock is USD $7,349.00. An IP is $2,000 tops. Your shipping may be high but 2X the cost of the engine you posted is INSANE.

Posted price:


I would re-consider another vehicle or a different engine to re-power this with. This 6.5L setup of yours is blowing engines in extremely short times and frankly isn't doing the job relibily. It's a disposable and expendable engine and the Military treats it as such. 30,000 miles and they can be scrap metal. 2500 (4023 kms) mile oil changes when towing. I have put a lot into a pickup with this 6.2/6.5TD engine and the engines didn't hold up to make all the effort worth a F___

You may need to make other changes like 18:1 low compression pistons for going high HP. What turbo and it hadn't better be a GMx Asthma Attack turbo unless you are running TWO: one on each bank. IMO get ahold of @Twisted Steel Performance and/or his partner in your area.

IMO yours could be rebuilt for less than a new longblock.

You have some options at this point and IMO you had better check them out so you at least get some lube with that price... 🤪
 
WarWagon said:
Does this price come with some KY lube or are they raping you without? o_O💫

The engine longblock is USD $7,349.00. An IP is $2,000 tops. Your shipping may be high but 2X the cost of the engine you posted is INSANE.

Posted price:


I would re-consider another vehicle or a different engine to re-power this with. This 6.5L setup of yours is blowing engines in extremely short times and frankly isn't doing the job relibily. It's a disposable and expendable engine and the Military treats it as such. 30,000 miles and they can be scrap metal. 2500 (4023 kms) mile oil changes when towing. I have put a lot into a pickup with this 6.2/6.5TD engine and the engines didn't hold up to make all the effort worth a F___

You may need to make other changes like 18:1 low compression pistons for going high HP. What turbo and it hadn't better be a GMx Asthma Attack turbo unless you are running TWO: one on each bank. IMO get ahold of @Twisted Steel Performance and/or his partner in your area.

IMO yours could be rebuilt for less than a new longblock.

You have some options at this point and IMO you had better check them out so you at least get some lube with that price... 🤪
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It’s still too early to call Bullet but judging by the feedback I’m getting you can count on me calling them.
I also owe the seller of the proposed new engine a call today again too early to call them yet but you can count on a lot of questions..

So if the 6.5L Optimizer is really a disposable engine as you say why do people devote they’re time to a forum dedicated to it?
I must be missing something, isn’t the whole idea to start with a good reliable engine and then talk to similar minded and well educated people on the engine to enable us to keep them running for a long time?
 
Most kf the people running 6.5 have them because they are cheaper than modern diesels. Out of the first 200 members on this forum, I bet 199 of them would trade for a duramax if that was an option. Probably 20% of 6.5 owners are kids and this is their first diesel, again because of price.

The 6.5 CAN BE a good engine for certain applications. It was good in the 1980’s when it came out. But you have to understand the weaknesses of this engine and do something to mitigate them. Pushing enough fuel for 300hp should put you in the 625 torque range.

You need a BIG turbo for that along with a complete custom build- STRONGLY suggest some kind of girdle, reducing compression, HAVE TO balance the lower end, better rod bolts, DEFINITELY head studs, yada yada yada.

ADDING 50% of the rated peak power for this engine is no joke. This is a fuel sipping economy engine, and meant as such. When the 6.2 came out (6.5 is a bored out 6.2) it was a whopping 130 hp engine without a turbo.

People that do modified trucks or cars and get a really long life out of them almost always do it by knowing the engine and truck inside and out. Not picking on you but you really don’t know this engine. You are wanting a really long life with pretty high bump in power.
Seems like someone is good at advertising what they do.

When you asked about long life from this engine (300,000-400,000 miles) yup, you can do that.
When people ask about 300hp yup you can do that.

There is not 100 people in the world getting 300 hp AND 400,000 miles from this engine.

If you got a p400- yup- 300hp AND 400,000 miles provided they balanced the rotating assembly, tighten the bearing clearances to minimum spec, and you are on top of maintenance.

whoever is selling you this deal- they aren’t your friend. I don’t care what ya think, they are not doing you any favors.

Take the most powerful built 6.5 and the longest running 6.5-
Take any cummins and add $2000 to it and it has more power and longer life.
Same for duramax.
The 6.5 is economical. Thats it. I only started wrenching on them professionally in the late 80’s (when they were 6.2) while still in school. If the US military didn’t get knee deep in these decades ago- most the parts would have dried up long ago.

I don’t want to scare you away, but man ya need to understand this engine better first.
 
R.A.G.S said:
So if the 6.5L Optimizer is really a disposable engine as you say why do people devote they’re time to a forum dedicated to it?
I must be missing something, isn’t the whole idea to start with a good reliable engine and then talk to similar minded and well educated people on the engine to enable us to keep them running for a long time?
Click to expand...

Because they can't lock all of us up in the padded rooms. I have the room at the head of the hall...

GM cast 6.2 and the punched out 6.5 6.5TD are known as scrap in the Professional Engine Rebuilder world. The main bearing webs crack in the block, the rear cylinders are known to crack, the heads crack between the valves... It's difficult to get a good rebuildable core on the GM cast stuff.

Optimizers are improved and have a better chance on not being cracked to scrap.

The P400 is the best odds of being rebuildable.

"isn’t the whole idea to start with a good reliable engine"

Sorry to break the bad news to you: Suggesting a Beancounter cheap GM 6.2/6.5 diesel is reliable is pushing the limits of my medication! The very 6.2/6.5/6.5TD Detroit Diesel (that GM OWNED at the time) told GM to use forged cranks in and "Like a Snap!" GM didn't. GM used a timing chain while other Diesels used gears: lets let it have nearly 1" of chain slop from the IP shock loading and pound the hell out on the exhaust valve tips. 3 bolt starter HAHA No: cheap 2 bolt block buster.

Look up the Oldsmobile 5.7L Diesel Hand Grenade. The very same (suggested failed) part number for the lifter is in your engine.

The people spending this kind of money go drop a 5.9 Cummins or Duramax in their Hummers and call it a day.

No, the reason this forum exists is for those of us who wind up with a forgotten GM diesel somehow and a few who push the limits in and or all of: Power, ability, frugal, or "insane". (At one time I was getting good used take out 6.2L CCUV Military Diesels for under $1500.00 each. So if I blew one up: So What?! )

I would give you good odds of getting 250K miles out of a 4.3L V6 GM gas engine because that what we got out of them in the Oilfields. The 6.2's, if they didn't eat their own glowplugs to commit suicide, may make 200K before the head gaskets and TTY bolts give it up.

Again this is merely to help you set your expectations accordingly. Esp. spending this kind of coin. IMO your engine failure(s) are more "normal" than unusual for this engine.

We love the company in the asylum. So don't let me discourage you.
 
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Not all of us feel they're disposable but they definitely have some weaknesses. Alot of people buy them cause they're cheap and assume they can tweak them like a gasser. They can be tweaked but don't expect it to be like a Cummins with a hell for stout bottom end, the Cummins started out as an industrial engine that they stuffed in a truck.
I love my 6.5 but I know their weaknesses and how to address them and they've served me well.
 
I could have had a Duramax for what I paid for My truck, at that time. The thing that got to Me about the more modern diesels is, the cost of maintenance items. A 6.5 can be tuned up and most all of the uprated components installed for about the price of tuning up a Duramax.
Forget the Dodges wit the cummins, they dont make a crew cab diesel in the year range that I could have afforded, 12 valve.
I wanted a CC and a diesel for pulling my boat or the small camper occasionally. That and the fuel mileage. With the work I have done to this engine it gets 18 MPG if I keep it under or at 75 MPH.
Besides, having been a mechanic for the Montana DOT over here, I got fairly familiar with the 6.5 at the taxpayers expense. 😵‍💫🤷‍♂️😹
 
With the options for an engine that You have stated, You might be better off finding a 12 valve cummmins, or possibly a Perkins diesel to stuff into that beast.
believe Me, I love My 6.5 but for the coin You are talking for an engine and the amount of miles You would like to get from it, Cummins and the conversion kit might be money more well spent.
 
I have been in touch with the owner of the company (Bullet) doing business with the twisted steel performance mob, he does 95% super chargers on diesels these days, he does do a few engine rebuilds and has an in house engine reconditioner that works on all they’re engines, he’s booked out till February currently and does not get parts from Twisted steel, when he does need 6.5 Optimizer parts he buys all his parts from the same guy supplying my engine but with a catch, he demands the engine blocks be freighted separately to the heads so that he can inspect every component himself.
I also took a lot of the advice given and asked my supplier first hand what’s the deal with the expense on many parts of the engine.
From my own experience and what I have been told things are simply much more expensive here in Australia, if you hadn’t already worked that out.

Also we are around 0.75 cents to the American dollar add shipping costs on and the cost of living in Australia and whammo your hit with an expensive engine or just about everything imported.

I have reached my decision and I’m sticking to it, the new 6.5 Optimizer is going in.
This time round things will be significantly different to the last one, it has people I trust putting the engine in and testing and tweaking the car before they will give it back to me, I’m not going to hassle them or rush them, I don’t care if they keep it for months if it gets a good quality job done at the end of it all. It will be garaged most of time from now on, used only for towing and weekend drives and holidays, gone are the days of wasting on my work related driving, I’ll get another car for that.

I don’t have a choice on engine anymore, I’m not going through the pain and expense of changing the gearbox supports and engine supports and all the other engineering that goes into another motor and gearbox, I also don’t have a choice on where I get the motor from, fortunately I talk to this guy almost daily lately and we have been talking car related stuff for 2.5 years since the first one went in, whilst I have not met him face to face I still believe I have built up a relationship of sorts in that time, he knows all the s**t I’ve been through with the old engine and he has been a big support to me for parts and knowledge of the engine he has also been in much conversation with the mechanic removing the old and refitting the new engine I trust him basically. He’s giving me a good warranty period of 3 years as well.

If serious faults did come up he would cover it if he doesn’t I‘ll call my lawyer hopefully it won’t come to that.
 
MTQ Turbo I don't know the details but when I get home from my work trip I'll post a photo.
The engine is going to have the new pistons replaced( yes new pistons in a brand new block removed) with some German brand that are stronger but don't allow too high compression as the standards.
An up spec injector pump and lifter pump.
The Turbo will be the same but most likely bearings and seals replaced and rebalancing will be done.
He's giving me for free the lifter pump and oil cooler.
 
Since the pistons are coming out I can't suggest Gapless Rings highly enough. I could see the markings through the oil at 3000 miles with them vs. instant black on an oil change. They keep that much blowby and soot out of the engine oil.

It's only the 2nd ring that's gapless and last I checked Total Seal will make your set gapless for $90 USD. Due to shipping I would just order a complete set from them.

Oil sample results and info here. Ran them in two 6.X engines. "What Blowby?" There was none at 38K miles.

Total Seal Gapless rings?

Any comments about using a gapless ring set in a turbo 6.5? (Yes my 6.2 turbo hybrid needs a ring set.) Curious about power, MPG, blowby vs. standard gap rings. Will be used for towing... Do they have a 1st/top ring gapless set vs. the 2nd middle gapless ring? I would be concerned about...
www.thetruckstop.us
 
Sounds to me like you’re on the right track then.
having it ship separately makes sense. Really push for the p400 heads- worth the difference in cost.
Also tell them you want the lower rotating assembly balanced. Again more cost but like the heads will pay for itself in longer life and better running the entire time.

Sounds like Bullet learned how to defeat the shenanigans of the NY outfit. Good. If they know it is getting inspection in detail- they probably won’t pull any silly stuff.

Definitely the wise long term choice to take your time and get it right.

Get the injectors tested so they release within 25psi of each other as maximum tolerance. That makes a big difference in smooth engine.

Get a metal “Tee” installed at the ip inlet for source of a fuel pressure gauge mounted in dash so you can see while driving. Fuel pressure is critical for ip long life as well as performance. Normal db2 is 3-5 psi and ds4 is 8-14 psi. But being a modified ip, you need specs from the builder.
 
I still would not trust ANYTHING that comes from International Diesel or ANY of their banckruptcy/lawsuit avoiding subsidiaries, ESPECIALLY concerning ANY claim about ANY 6.5 coming from them, EVER!

On another 6.5 forum, about 16 years ago, one of the forum members had bought what was supposed to be a totally remanufactured, complete "drop in" 6.5TD from them, based off of their glossy website and claims of being "diesel experts" with "decades" of experience rebuilding/remanufacturing diesel motors from nearly all manufacturers and dyno testing every rebuilt motor before it leaves their shop.

His engine overheated and destroyed itself within the first 20 miles of its installation - which included a new radiator in his vehicle. International claimed the warranty was void because the heat tabs on the heads indicated that the engine had been overheated. His contention was that their "build" caused the overheat and engine failure almost immediately after being put into service, as it indicated normal temp on the gauge and then all hell broke loose as the temp gauge pegged and the motor went Old Faithful out the tailpipe.

He was a doctor, lived in Pennsylvania, got a lawyer involved who got the Pennsylvania AG's Fraud Division involved, who got NY State's AG involved, too. Had an independent, SAE Certified diesel repair instructor tear down engine to see if he could determine cause of catastrophic failure.

International bragged on its website that they supplied reman 6.5s to the Military, well evidently they also were taking those military blocks they got in to reman and were also just exterior cleaning them, slapping reman heads on, painting them and shipping them back out to Uncle Sam as long blocks to keep up with the demand for "new" motors over in Southwest Asia.

The block's casting numbers came back to being a lot put into Military Humvees and the independent diesel tech almost immediately discovered that #8 cylinder wall was DOA when he pulled apart the bottom end. Seems that International's techs just assumed all military overheats they got in for "remanufacturing" were just cracked heads in the valve seats and just popped new Humvee heads on them, cleaned them, painted them and shipped them back out.

It appeared that the forum member's "drop in reman" was a fried military block that had never been disassembled/checked/rebuilt and instead that had pickup heads put on it along with intake, exhaust manifolds, turbo, water pump, IP, injectors of unknown parentage, painted and shipped as was to him.

It was about a month after as that thread all unfolded over a couple of months on that forum that I went to International's website and was redirected to another "company" with a similar name's website that was "located" in another town on the outskirts of NYC and that, in amazing "coincidence" uses many of the same photos/video clips/descriptions that International used on their now unavailable website to show off their "facility" and "processes".

I'd trust anything to do with International or its multiple spin-off shell companies about as much as I'd trust that fraud huckster shilling his special pillows, magic slippers, quality cheap sheets and other crap in his late night commercials on obscure TV channels.
 
@R.A.G.S You'd be dollars ahead and way better off dropping in the basically plug-and-play, fully self-contained (even includes stand-alone ECM and throttle drive-by-wire pedal assembly and all harnesses, just supply power and an ignition keyed source) 2.8L I-4 Cummins Diesel. It can even be fairly easily modified (via tuning and upgraded turbo) to put out over 300 hp. In stock form it's far lighter than a 6.5 and puts out stock 200+ hp that the 6.5 does, and far more fuel efficiently. I also belive you can get the 4.2L V6 Cummins as a drop in kit, also. It weighs less than the 6.5 and it's 300hp out of the crate and can be easily tuned to 400hp. Both are FAR better options for the money you're going to spend on a replacement 6.5 and parts are readily available from either Cummins or Ram/Fiat/Chrysler in Australia.
 
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Forum like this is not because we love the engine.
Some of us already bought a truck with this engine and we need/want to keep it running without buying another truck.
Mine is used for going to the grocery if my Toyota is out with other family members. LOL!!!
So at this point, in its life, it is living a cushy life.
Occasionally, we need to haul heavy or long stuff (flooring, fence materials, moving household items, etc.) in town which is perfect for that purpose.

I keep it because I don't want a payment and it almost have no real value if I sell it.
 
Right now I could sell My truck for several thousand more than I paid for it. That would not cover the cost of the upgraded components I’ve added to it but it would be close.
The guy I bought it from, He wants it back, badly. Of I ever would decide to sell it, He would get it back, just for what I paid him for the truck.
He has a huge appreciation for this foundation and He keeps them on the road. He still has two more that He uses daily on the farm.
The farm, that why there was a couple or five bushels of wheat chaff between the radiator and the condenser. 😳😹😹😹😹
 
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