• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

New Nozzle question

AK called and the decision is to go with the Bosch India Nozzles he has and rebuild mine to pop evenly. I called one of the nozzle suppliers I wrote of initially and his opinion was that the units they sell are good, made by Denzo (sp) and their customers have done well with them. They also sell a Chinese nozzle that they have had pretty good luck with but, 'if its for a truck you plan to keep, then you can't go wrong with Genuine Bosch (not Bosch CKO).'

Gentleman actually talked me out of buying from them since I can purchase AK's set. 'No use buying more of what you don't need.'
I'll pull out the set I have in there now and see what's what. Thought is to rebuild one and swap it in after a few thousand miles and test the pulled unit to see if it is maintaining pop setting and spray pattern.
More to follow.
 
I have heard of diesel getting old in an injection pump sitting on a stock shelf and getting parts stuck. Expereinced it on the rack of a small kubota diesel IP.

@sctrailrider

Asking as I don't know....

I wonder if there is any area that could be coated to improve friction - sticktion to help injectors balance easier ???? I don't think it will increase throughput but wonder about crispness of event to improve atomization. The spring and maybe body of the needle (but not on the sealing pintle surface). Those are the moving parts right?

Or coat the shims and springs to prevent any ionic - catatonic - chemical reaction???? with fuel and dissimilar metals.? That might make it more robust but probably not worth the cost or effort if its driven semi regularly. Bad fuel is bad and sitting is also hard on moving parts both will ruin things so I doubt coating would be a fail safe.
 
schiker said:
I have heard of diesel getting old in an injection pump sitting on a stock shelf and getting parts stuck. Expereinced it on the rack of a small kubota diesel IP.

@sctrailrider

Asking as I don't know....

I wonder if there is any area that could be coated to improve friction - sticktion to help injectors balance easier ???? I don't think it will increase throughput but wonder about crispness of event to improve atomization. The spring and maybe body of the needle (but not on the sealing pintle surface). Those are the moving parts right?

Or coat the shims and springs to prevent any ionic - catatonic - chemical reaction???? with fuel and dissimilar metals.? That might make it more robust but probably not worth the cost or effort if its driven semi regularly. Bad fuel is bad and sitting is also hard on moving parts both will ruin things so I doubt coating would be a fail safe.
Click to expand...

Good question Hubert, I don't know, logic would say yes to coating the moving parts that rub each other would greatly reduce friction & wear.. it wouldn't be that difficult to apply and it wouldn't affect clearances, it would be worth a try...

BUT...

I don't know how it would be tested to show any improvement vs cost to anyone...
 
My concern with coating inside an injector would be, how well would it hold up and last? That's not exactly a friendly enviroment inside an injector with heat, pressure, wear, and harmonics working similiar to an ultrasound with everything going on. I do know coatings is what they found to be the #1 problem inside of common rail fuel injectors as ball seat erosion is what normally leads to high return rates(this doesn't completely apply to LB7 and 5.9L CR Cummins injector failures as they had VCO nozzles that work great in apop design, but just don't holdup to continuous high pressures). They started using a hard chrome coating on the ball seat parts to resist wear and erosion caused by the high pressures, and the effects of micro air bubbles wearing parts under extreme pressures essentially acting like an edm hone. Maybe a phone call to a company like EXERGY to inquire about the coatings used inside of modern injectors to combat wear under extreme pressures.
 
But the modern injectors that are having the problems run much higher pressures than a 6.5. I would think that would cause more of the issues. Less pressure means less heat, different harmonics, etc.
 
Anyone have a cutaway pic of a 6.5 injector. This is the closest generic one I found.

I would also think the slower mechanical injectors would be a better application.

I didn't think the small ID of the nozzle could be coated. How about coating the face of nozzle to retard heat transfer to injector? Warmer diesel burns better so might not improve things. The injection pump likes cooler Diesel but the injection event at cylinder likes it warmer.

What exactly wears out on an injector? Clearance on the seat/pintle or nozzle clearance to body of pintle to nozzle dia such that the pintle doesn't move back as much for a low volume injection?




generic-injector.PNG
 
I thought about about just adding some Liqui-Moly to the fuel, that stuff adds platelets to components.
If components are showing some wear, that might help.
My only fear of that would be if it might add too much then create some sticking and binding of components.
Also, the Liqui-Moly is black so a person would not want to add too much at a time as that would create problems with the optical sensor.
 
schiker said:
Anyone have a cutaway pic of a 6.5 injector. This is the closest generic one I found.

I would also think the slower mechanical injectors would be a better application.

I didn't think the small ID of the nozzle could be coated. How about coating the face of nozzle to retard heat transfer to injector? Warmer diesel burns better so might not improve things. The injection pump likes cooler Diesel but the injection event at cylinder likes it warmer.

What exactly wears out on an injector? Clearance on the seat/pintle or nozzle clearance to body of pintle to nozzle dia such that the pintle doesn't move back as much for a low volume injection?




View attachment 51254
Click to expand...
The greatest wear area is the nozzle seat and corresponding area of the pintle where the two make contact. The pintle hitting the seat as it closes is like hitting a nail with a hammer. If the two are of the same hardness, then the wear will be gradual and uniform (in theory). If one is softer than the other, the softer part will wear faster and unevenly. You will eventually lose the integrity of the sealing surface between the two, the result of which will be an uneven spray pattern leading eventually to "pissing" when open and "dribbling" when closed.
 
MrMarty51 said:
I thought about about just adding some Liqui-Moly to the fuel, that stuff adds platelets to components.
If components are showing some wear, that might help.
My only fear of that would be if it might add too much then create some sticking and binding of components.
Also, the Liqui-Moly is black so a person would not want to add too much at a time as that would create problems with the optical sensor.
Click to expand...
If you're concerned with wear from frictional losses, especially since the introduction of ULSD, then you are far better off using a Diesel Fuel supplement with lubricity additives (like DieselKleen), using a B2-B20 pump blend (biodiesel is much "slicker" than Dino), adding a quart of low ash 2-Stroke motor oil to every tank of fuel or adding a quart of ATF each fill.
 
Husker6.5 said:
If you're concerned with wear from frictional losses, especially since the introduction of ULSD, then you are far better off using a Diesel Fuel supplement with lubricity additives (like DieselKleen), using a B2-B20 pump blend (biodiesel is much "slicker" than Dino), adding a quart of low ash 2-Stroke motor oil to every tank of fuel or adding a quart of ATF each fill.
Click to expand...
I have been using the Cenex Road Master fuel and also adding measured amounts of Stanadyne performance formula diesel additive.
I have been thinking about the two stroke oil and adding that to the fuel also.
 
As far as injector wear the pintle needle and seat is the biggie followed by the pintle sticking in it's bore. Which I believe is from carbon build up. I would think that the bore of the nozzle and the body of the pintle would benefit from an anti stick coating while the actual needle and seat would benefit from an anti wear coating and if possible the anti stick coating as well.
Pretty small parts so not sure how doable it would be.
 
Size is relative, the etching & coating, curing would be the same as with any other part so to speak... their are a small few shops that coat carbs & their internal parts for racing applications, I haven't done any and don't plan to at this time.

@ak diesel driver , you are correct that is the area that would benefit from a slick coating...
 
For the cost of nozzles, idk that I would do it unless you were doing a bunch of other stuff anyways yourself and can pop test your own at home to check on them every 25-30k miles. A good lubricant added to the fuel makes a huge difference. And running atf even in a ds4 helps a lot because of the detergent in it.

Some of the bad pattern sprays comes from carbon build up on the face. Wmi helps so much it is amazing. Even if you dont run wmi, doing the spray bottle method once in a while is a good idea.

One of the things I would like to do to the nozzle parts is cryogenic treating. The strength gains are not needed, but it does improve wear from impact by usually 10%. Just not the spring.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top