Hey, I am just saying hello and saying thanks to the creators of this site. I have been checking it out for a couple of weeks now and like what I see. I've been driving a 1994 6.5td Suburban for a few years now and am always looking for good sources of info to help me keep her running smoothly. My family completely depends on this vehicle for routine transportation, vacations, towing, offroad adventures and work - lots of work involving trailers of all types. So far I have found some really useful information this site. Thanks!
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Hello, All!
- Thread starter DMT
- Start date
Hello good to talk with you.
Post your question about tee, Im sure someone will remember.
Post your question about tee, Im sure someone will remember.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Welcome DMT. Good lookin rig, that looks like you put it to good use.
Hi, and thanks for the comment, Will. It does get out on some trails from time to time. And Leroy, thanks for the comment. For everyone, I would appreciate some help with a little problem that appeared over the weekend. I was pulling a heavy trailer on a particularly tricky stretch of I-15 south of SLC, where there is a lot of road construction. Out of no where I saw my temp gauge shoot up to the red zone in under a minute. As it turns out my new hi-flow water pump very efficiently pumped all of my coolant out of a pinky sized hole in the heater hose elbow near the air intake, dumping coolant over the intake and block. The engine was already pretty hot (210) from towing heavy for over a couple hours. When that coolant hit the hot parts of the motor, it was quite spectacular. At least a lot of passersby had a good show. I wasn't amused. Neither was my wife, who is already scarred for life when the PMD failed in a very dangerous curved and wet highway at rush hour, in the rain, with a load of little kids coming back from a birthday party. She doesn't trust the 6.5 so much and I am doing what I can to turn that around, and then my coolant system pulls this one on me.
So now I am wanting to go overkill and make sure that never happens again. What is the most bullet proof heater hose, T-fitting, elbow set up you are running on the 6.5?
Thanks!
Mark
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Bullet proof?
I used to own a truck equipment company that we literally made trucks- many suburbans- bullet proof.
Nothing will make hose failure perfect. Closest thing you could get is brazing on fittings to your heater core and radiator, then having double wall hydraulic lines made. $2000 should do it. That's how we did all the gubmint trucks for DOD and municipalities.
Next to that is Icore hoses.
Other than that replace all the hoses every 5-6 years to ensure they are not getting old and cracked. Silicone hose is about the best quality affordable priced hose.
I use brass t fittings on my rear heat i my suburbans and throw away this junk quick connect for the assembly line speed and ease fittings from the factory.
I'm really surprised you don't overheat with all the blockage in front of your radiator. Most guys can't get area with blocking the factory snorkels in the bumper.
I'll agree on pmd failure always at worst possible time. I won't own a ds4 engine again- only db2 for me.
I used to own a truck equipment company that we literally made trucks- many suburbans- bullet proof.
Nothing will make hose failure perfect. Closest thing you could get is brazing on fittings to your heater core and radiator, then having double wall hydraulic lines made. $2000 should do it. That's how we did all the gubmint trucks for DOD and municipalities.
Next to that is Icore hoses.
Other than that replace all the hoses every 5-6 years to ensure they are not getting old and cracked. Silicone hose is about the best quality affordable priced hose.
I use brass t fittings on my rear heat i my suburbans and throw away this junk quick connect for the assembly line speed and ease fittings from the factory.
I'm really surprised you don't overheat with all the blockage in front of your radiator. Most guys can't get area with blocking the factory snorkels in the bumper.
I'll agree on pmd failure always at worst possible time. I won't own a ds4 engine again- only db2 for me.
Point taken, Will. I probably used the term "bullet proof" carelessly and definitely did not mean it literally (except, possibly, on opening weekend of the deer hunt in certain counties in Utah when bullets do fly uncomfortably close to my Sub). I am looking for a solution that is VERY unlikely to fail, to offset the already weak reliability rating my Sub has in my wife's eyes. Actually, besides the near catastrophic PMD fail, my rig has been fairly reliable and trouble free. And overheating problems have not been unmanagable even with all the junk I have on the front bumper. The high capacity water pump/dual stats helped a lot. I saw engine temps drop 15 to 20 degrees across the board with that single enhancement. Highly recommend on pre-1997 6.5s, btw. I'm looking into the Icore hoses. There are some suppliers on ebay. Do you have any recommendations? Looks like they use the AN sizing system. It looks like 5/8" hose tube size corresponds to 10AN and 3/4" to 12AN according to this site: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00096.
And there are plenty of sources on silicone hoses. Does anyone have a specific recommendation?
Thanks.
- Staff
- #8
Welcome to The Truck Stop!
Welcome.
Any engine can stop at any time for any reason. New stuff with electronics to suddenly fail warranty or not, running out of fuel, or a valve becomes a 3 piece engine stopping part due to defect, high miles, or whatever. Have a plan to deal with loss of engine power. Oddball example: Think twice of beating someone by pulling out in front of them because if you loose engine power while doing so... Stuck throttles are another OMG moment one needs to have a plan to deal with. You read about the deaths of people who don't have a plan or fail to solve the problem.
How hot did the engine get when it lost coolant again?! First off these engines are cheap. Unfortunately if you keep running it hard and hot you will quickly learn exactly how cheap. 210 is the shit-your-pants mark on the temp gauge. Flirt with it but keep it generally under that and take action to keep it under like slow down and/or gear down! 4LOW is an option! After 210 you start to loose tension on the rings - aka more blow by and risk cracks along with HG failure. The Overheat in the red you just went through is cause for concern for head cracks and ring damage. The high ECT ring overheating even affects IDI Fords.
You need to change the oil NOW after the overheat event as it's ruined.
The ONLY number on this engine that matters is keeping ECT under control. And that's because it's so hard to do. EGT - no. Low oil pressure - nope. (No oil pressure is a problem of course, but, low is fine.)
The body style used for the 6.5TD has horrible airflow problems through the radiator stack. A better than a 6 blade fan and new fan clutch go a long way. Working hard aka towing out west you want a Kennedy Diesel low temp fan clutch, 185 t-stat, Duramax or 1998 19" 9 blade steel fan HO water pump, Water Wetter, clean behind the engine oil cooler, and zero restrictions in front of the grill or the bumper holes. People @Burning oil are working on even better fan clutches to over come the delay to get the fan on when you meet a grade. Note I didn't mention a dual T-Stat housing as I ran cool enough without that detail on single T-stat housings.
Fan clutches are "dead" after 5 years and need replacement. Even new the 6 bolt fan clutch your year had would overheat and kick out when needed the most on a long grade. Dated but good info on cooling:
http://www.maxxtorque.com/2009/09/heath-diesels-65l-diesel-heavy-duty.html
Turbo's have a lot to do with cooling need as the GMx sucks fuel and puts a huge load on the cooling system. I have detailed the turbos and "working hard" here:
http://www.maxxtorque.com/2012/07/the-65l-diesel-factory-equipped-asthma.html
Any engine can stop at any time for any reason. New stuff with electronics to suddenly fail warranty or not, running out of fuel, or a valve becomes a 3 piece engine stopping part due to defect, high miles, or whatever. Have a plan to deal with loss of engine power. Oddball example: Think twice of beating someone by pulling out in front of them because if you loose engine power while doing so... Stuck throttles are another OMG moment one needs to have a plan to deal with. You read about the deaths of people who don't have a plan or fail to solve the problem.
How hot did the engine get when it lost coolant again?! First off these engines are cheap. Unfortunately if you keep running it hard and hot you will quickly learn exactly how cheap. 210 is the shit-your-pants mark on the temp gauge. Flirt with it but keep it generally under that and take action to keep it under like slow down and/or gear down! 4LOW is an option! After 210 you start to loose tension on the rings - aka more blow by and risk cracks along with HG failure. The Overheat in the red you just went through is cause for concern for head cracks and ring damage. The high ECT ring overheating even affects IDI Fords.
You need to change the oil NOW after the overheat event as it's ruined.
The ONLY number on this engine that matters is keeping ECT under control. And that's because it's so hard to do. EGT - no. Low oil pressure - nope. (No oil pressure is a problem of course, but, low is fine.)
The body style used for the 6.5TD has horrible airflow problems through the radiator stack. A better than a 6 blade fan and new fan clutch go a long way. Working hard aka towing out west you want a Kennedy Diesel low temp fan clutch, 185 t-stat, Duramax or 1998 19" 9 blade steel fan HO water pump, Water Wetter, clean behind the engine oil cooler, and zero restrictions in front of the grill or the bumper holes. People @Burning oil are working on even better fan clutches to over come the delay to get the fan on when you meet a grade. Note I didn't mention a dual T-Stat housing as I ran cool enough without that detail on single T-stat housings.
Fan clutches are "dead" after 5 years and need replacement. Even new the 6 bolt fan clutch your year had would overheat and kick out when needed the most on a long grade. Dated but good info on cooling:
http://www.maxxtorque.com/2009/09/heath-diesels-65l-diesel-heavy-duty.html
Turbo's have a lot to do with cooling need as the GMx sucks fuel and puts a huge load on the cooling system. I have detailed the turbos and "working hard" here:
http://www.maxxtorque.com/2012/07/the-65l-diesel-factory-equipped-asthma.html
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Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I knew you didn't really mean bulletproof, I'm just a smart-uhh-mouth. Yeah, smart mouth.
I haven't ran the Icore, but have a few friends that do- afaik they get most of there stuff from summit and the like.
Silicone hoses I buy at the hydraulic shops- they deal with a ton of the stuff, and I usually drive past a couple shops regular. Most everything on my truck at the moment is normal Autoparts store stuff, I just swap them out regular.
I get what you're saying about the wife. Mine got upset at her suburban finally letting go of a radiator at 200,000 miles. What do ya do? It's mechanical- things break. Or lease a new one every 2 years- but my wallet is not that fat.
I haven't ran the Icore, but have a few friends that do- afaik they get most of there stuff from summit and the like.
Silicone hoses I buy at the hydraulic shops- they deal with a ton of the stuff, and I usually drive past a couple shops regular. Most everything on my truck at the moment is normal Autoparts store stuff, I just swap them out regular.
I get what you're saying about the wife. Mine got upset at her suburban finally letting go of a radiator at 200,000 miles. What do ya do? It's mechanical- things break. Or lease a new one every 2 years- but my wallet is not that fat.
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NVW
Well-Known Member
Welcome to TTS
Good advise already given.
Good advise already given.
There are times you have to use the last life of the engine or ruin it due to a system failure. Only you can make that call. When your safety matters the cost of the engine is not relevant.
The known it's too hot line is 210. Anything over that in normal situations avoid it.
When you get your engine really hot - loss of all coolant for a long time I suggest the following:
Replace water pump. The coolant lubed seal was run dry and overheated. It will likely leak, seal up, and leak again randomly. 210K or 5 miles on it don't matter it's done from running dry and hot.
Check blow by. If it has really increased like smoking out or pushing out the dipstick you did the rings in. You can get some life out of the engine, but, you are on the near the end side.
When cold make sure the upper radiator hose is soft. start the engine and see if it gets hard quick indicating a blown head gasket or cracked head.
Did I mention oil cooler kits Leroy Diesel sells? No, probably not. I have actually had GM oil cooler hose sets outlive engines.
Not because they are that good, just, had some short engine life between overhauls join the carnage thread. Usually I am too busy mentioning A Team Turbo and Gapless Rings that he also sells. Besides got to leave stuff for others to recommend and there is a character limit...
@FellowTraveler I was waiting for the Evans water less coolant with a zero pressure cap for less cooling system stress debate to come up.
What kind and sizes of trailers you dragging around?
The known it's too hot line is 210. Anything over that in normal situations avoid it.
When you get your engine really hot - loss of all coolant for a long time I suggest the following:
Replace water pump. The coolant lubed seal was run dry and overheated. It will likely leak, seal up, and leak again randomly. 210K or 5 miles on it don't matter it's done from running dry and hot.
Check blow by. If it has really increased like smoking out or pushing out the dipstick you did the rings in. You can get some life out of the engine, but, you are on the near the end side.
When cold make sure the upper radiator hose is soft. start the engine and see if it gets hard quick indicating a blown head gasket or cracked head.
Did I mention oil cooler kits Leroy Diesel sells? No, probably not. I have actually had GM oil cooler hose sets outlive engines.
Not because they are that good, just, had some short engine life between overhauls join the carnage thread. Usually I am too busy mentioning A Team Turbo and Gapless Rings that he also sells. Besides got to leave stuff for others to recommend and there is a character limit... @FellowTraveler I was waiting for the Evans water less coolant with a zero pressure cap for less cooling system stress debate to come up.
What kind and sizes of trailers you dragging around?
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
Am I missing something here, are you inferring I'm lacking 'character' or????? Hopefully not, as for any commentary on cooling mods I'll just say read my earlier posts etc....
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BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
Welcome to The Truck Stop, DMT.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
I believe he's saying he can only type so much before he's used up all the characters allowed IE letters
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
OK, a verb.........I was thinking otherwise Thanks!
All cargo trailers. Usually a single-axle 12 foot open. Occasionally a dual-axle 20 foot enclosed and rarely a triple-axle 25 foot open trailer. Oh, and a dual-axle boat trailer. I try to limit the heavy loads to under 90 miles, and this one was just about that far when disaster struck.
Thanks for all your ideas.
Not sure why the misunderstanding. For the record I invited you in as I think highly of you and your experience in the area of alternate coolants. Just type some charters (letters) in. Yes I was saying I can't type up all the best mods for a 6.5 as I run out of space. I was thinking of this thread: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/waterless-coolant.43923/
I have no experience with Evans on a 6.5 like FellowTraveler does, but, I am trying it out on my 5.9 Dodge Cumapart as it came apart so the engine was out and the block "dry". (Engine has been out of the truck 3 times in 120K...) It was @FellowTraveler posting about Evans and a recent heater core failure on the 6.5 that dripped on passenger feet that makes me want to try the zero pressure cooling system.
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
Totally my misunderstanding "my bad!" It did not occur to me that some have limited space available when typing, sorry!
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/waterless-coolant.43923/
I have no experience with Evans on a 6.5 like FellowTraveler does, but, I am trying it out on my 5.9 Dodge Cumapart as it came apart so the engine was out and the block "dry". (Engine has been out of the truck 3 times in 120K...) It was @FellowTraveler posting about Evans and a recent heater core failure on the 6.5 that dripped on passenger feet that makes me want to try the zero pressure cooling system.
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