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Grey/Blue smoke at idle?
- Thread starter SfcJones
- Start date
- Staff
- #22
I got chastised earlier today at DP because I posted about my woes with them when another member asked. I know that they all have had problems, but what got me is that they told me that these were all BOSCH including the nozzles they use. I pulled the failed one apart before I sent it back and it clearly was not a BOSCH part and already had a lot of rust inside where fuel doesn't touch it. The nozzles they use are clearly made of a different material than the BOSCH OE ones as it is much shinier and rust VERY easily. Also the needle that actually closes off the injector inside in a BOSCH one is coated and the PEN ones are not coated and just plane steel as well as being a loose fit in the nozzle itself. My first 2 replacements came out of the bags with grease and dirt already on them like they had been installed in an engine already.
busdriver75
Busier than hell...
i was looking into injectors for myself the other day. the pensacola ones are 149. i checked gmpartsdirect for shits and giggles and they're OEM injectors are 182. i think i'd spend the extra 250 for the set and buy OEM ones after people describe the problems that some people are seeing for the remans from pensacola.
- Staff
- #24
The catch with GMPARTSDIRECT is there shipping costs, but it still in the end isn't that bad. Fortunately I do enough business with the local CHEVY dealer they gave me trade cost on my new set I just ordered. Wish now I would have left my old ones in during the swap as a light hazing under WOT wasn't that big of a deal. Don't nothing quite equal the fun of doing a job twice, but three times for free ROYALLY SUCKS!!
Pepperidge
Member Advocate
My rebuild of my other motor will have lly heads...enough of this injector BS GM has plagued us with...:mad2:
- Staff
- #28
Going to try the LLY heads with LLY injectors along with the LLY FICM coupled up to the LB7 ECM?
Pepperidge
Member Advocate
LB7 FICM the LLY FICM will not communicate with the LB7 ECM
LLY injectors are smaller so the fuel map for an LLY (pulse width etc) needs to be copied to the LB7 tune...
This is per Ben (duratothemax)
the guy who had originally done this that posted on Pats site sent me a DSP5 tune to make it work...he adjusted timing mostly so it rattles a lot so Ben may help me a little...or if I can get Tony to do it (I'll ask him...but his ECM is locked so I'll have to use my spare anyhow...)
- Staff
- #30
What about the voltage difference between the LB7 and LLY injectors? The LB7 runs at 96 volts and I thought the LLY's ran at 48 volts.
I went back and re-red the conversion post and I see where he said he was using the LB7 FICM. I know his first post said he used the LLY FICM and that was the one I had read, I didn't see the later ones where he updated his info.
http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16887&highlight=LB7+LLY+swap
Last edited:
Pepperidge
Member Advocate
He said he spoke to bosch and they said the voltage differences were not a problem...
HoytBows
Member
Hey guys,
Seems I got the white smoke syndrome too. I drove my truck back to Michigan from Colorado and noticed it had gotten a litte bit worse. There are a couple dealerships here in Grand Rapids and I consulted with both... I have an 03 LB7 with 182k on it and they said that the injectors could possibly be covered under GM's replacement warranty but if it wasnt then i have to flip the bill for the diagnostic... and if it was the injectors they could possibly have the truck fixed by the time i needed to drive back to Denver...
I went to the second dealership and sweet talked them into running a diagnostic on it for free and the Tech tells me I have a #6 injector thats dripping, not bad, but its not really good either. He says they cant work on till the day i have to leave back to denver but also says that I have about a 40% chance of fixing it with some injector cleaner and said I shouldnt have any trouble making it back. They said the issue should be covered under the warranty and get me a full new set of junky GM squirters.
SO i go back to the dealership who said they could get it done and say hey the guys down the street diagnosed the truck and said the #6 is down and fits the criteria for GM warranty bulletin. They give me a loaner and say they should have it done in a couple days. I leave and an hour later they call me back and say they cant touch it under warranty because their diagnostic shows I have a high pressure balance in the #6 and the #2 injector which is not covered under the warranty and they want 1500 bucks from me to fix it. They said that the bulletin only covers the return rate issues not the high balance problem.
Well now I'm getting conflicting stories from the two dealerships. I get a private quote from a mechanic who will but in two bosch injectors for 1100bucks which i set an appointment to have done before I leave because i dont really want to get half way and burn a hole in a piston.
Then i sit and think about it and call another tech who worked for GM and is now working for Ford. Tells me it was his impression that if the problem was at all injector related that they should replace the whole set on GM's bill. He thought I was getting jerked around by the guys who said they could fix it. Told me that the injectors are the same in the fords and the GM's and that they are all blowing apart because of the high pressures the trucks are running these days. Either way he said to try to get it back to Denver and check with another dealership, if they mess with me he said he would fix them but again on my bill and didnt think i should have to pay it.
I then called a big dealership in Denver and told them where i was sitting. They said that the High balance issue was covered under GM's warranty as long as the overall pressure was under 158psi or so. He said if it wasnt then the warranty didnt cover it but couldnt really understand why the one dealership was giving me a hard time. He said if the overall pressure was not below 158psi, it would eventually get there if the injectors continued to get worse which they probably would if i kept driving it.....
As of now I am going to try to drive it the 1200 miles back to Denver and let that dealership fix it (hopefully) Unless you guys have other suggestions for me, the problem is I am on somewhat of a time constraint but the truck seems to be running fine, good temps, not a terrible ton of smoke, good milage, and I took my edge out with no noticable change.
sorry this is so long but i think it gives a little history of my issues, and i think that somebody is not giving me good info, but since I dont know anything i wanted to pick the wise brains out there and see what y'all thought. Thanks
Seems I got the white smoke syndrome too. I drove my truck back to Michigan from Colorado and noticed it had gotten a litte bit worse. There are a couple dealerships here in Grand Rapids and I consulted with both... I have an 03 LB7 with 182k on it and they said that the injectors could possibly be covered under GM's replacement warranty but if it wasnt then i have to flip the bill for the diagnostic... and if it was the injectors they could possibly have the truck fixed by the time i needed to drive back to Denver...
I went to the second dealership and sweet talked them into running a diagnostic on it for free and the Tech tells me I have a #6 injector thats dripping, not bad, but its not really good either. He says they cant work on till the day i have to leave back to denver but also says that I have about a 40% chance of fixing it with some injector cleaner and said I shouldnt have any trouble making it back. They said the issue should be covered under the warranty and get me a full new set of junky GM squirters.
SO i go back to the dealership who said they could get it done and say hey the guys down the street diagnosed the truck and said the #6 is down and fits the criteria for GM warranty bulletin. They give me a loaner and say they should have it done in a couple days. I leave and an hour later they call me back and say they cant touch it under warranty because their diagnostic shows I have a high pressure balance in the #6 and the #2 injector which is not covered under the warranty and they want 1500 bucks from me to fix it. They said that the bulletin only covers the return rate issues not the high balance problem.
Well now I'm getting conflicting stories from the two dealerships. I get a private quote from a mechanic who will but in two bosch injectors for 1100bucks which i set an appointment to have done before I leave because i dont really want to get half way and burn a hole in a piston.
Then i sit and think about it and call another tech who worked for GM and is now working for Ford. Tells me it was his impression that if the problem was at all injector related that they should replace the whole set on GM's bill. He thought I was getting jerked around by the guys who said they could fix it. Told me that the injectors are the same in the fords and the GM's and that they are all blowing apart because of the high pressures the trucks are running these days. Either way he said to try to get it back to Denver and check with another dealership, if they mess with me he said he would fix them but again on my bill and didnt think i should have to pay it.
I then called a big dealership in Denver and told them where i was sitting. They said that the High balance issue was covered under GM's warranty as long as the overall pressure was under 158psi or so. He said if it wasnt then the warranty didnt cover it but couldnt really understand why the one dealership was giving me a hard time. He said if the overall pressure was not below 158psi, it would eventually get there if the injectors continued to get worse which they probably would if i kept driving it.....
As of now I am going to try to drive it the 1200 miles back to Denver and let that dealership fix it (hopefully) Unless you guys have other suggestions for me, the problem is I am on somewhat of a time constraint but the truck seems to be running fine, good temps, not a terrible ton of smoke, good milage, and I took my edge out with no noticable change.
sorry this is so long but i think it gives a little history of my issues, and i think that somebody is not giving me good info, but since I dont know anything i wanted to pick the wise brains out there and see what y'all thought. Thanks
- Staff
- #34
I way I see it with the injector issues. IF you can find a dealer that will fix it under warranty and doesn't give you any hassle, I would let them do it.
To many of them make excuses (as your seeing) to fix these well know issues.
To bad you will have to travel that distance, but good luck and let us know how it turns out!
To many of them make excuses (as your seeing) to fix these well know issues.
To bad you will have to travel that distance, but good luck and let us know how it turns out!
blacklancer
New Member
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
HI
what brand of injectors did you install, smoke at idel is fuel metering issue. Might not show up as a bad balance rate. Most of the time an injector in question will have a rate of at least 4.0
what brand of injectors did you install, smoke at idel is fuel metering issue. Might not show up as a bad balance rate. Most of the time an injector in question will have a rate of at least 4.0
drilldr
New Member
I have an 03 GMC, when we first bought it it also smoked at idle. With this new fuel, the engines on our machines at work with start smoking and loading up and I found a mixture of Howes fuel additive- double dose and a double dose of Lucas fuel treatment would clean them up. I tried this on my truck and it worked. I don't have a way of checking balance rates or any of that, but old disel mechanic trick seemed to work. Maybe it will help you.
HoytBows
Member
Well the saga continues...
I got the truck back to Denver, and took it to the dealership and actually got to talk to one of the Diesel tech's there. He told me he was worried that if he ran a diagnostic on it he would end up telling me the same thing that the high balance rates would not have dropped the overall fuel pressure enough, and i would be out the money for the labor. So I asked him what he thought i should do. He looked at me and said well are you getting fuel in your oil?? I had changed it two days prior and i told him i didnt think so. He said well if you are, then that is a warranty issue. Then he gave me the look.... like are you understanding me... I asked him if there was any way of telling where that fuel came from and he smiled and said NO. He says, "so if you want to go check your oil and see if you are getting fuel in it and come back if there is we can take care of you.... thats my advice" I looked at the service manager and he gave me the nod like yup he is telling you what you think he is.... So i left and came back 10 minutes later and somehow about 12oz of diesel fuel had found its way into my oil. They smelled my dipstick and said sure enough we gotta get that fixed and it will be under warranty so do you want to leave it with us now. I said heck yeah lets do this. So the service manager goes over to the computer and starts the stuff and then his jaw drips. He looks at me and says guess what the delivery date was on your truck. Sept. 16, 2002. Which puts me just under 2 months out of the warranty. F
Just my luck. I really needed a beer at this point. but instead i went home and changed my brand new fuelly oil and did some thinking....
I have a guy who will fix it for me in a couple weeks at like $80hr labor + parts. BUT i think that I might just try to do it myself... so I'm going to go start a DIY thread for injectors if i cant find one.
I got the truck back to Denver, and took it to the dealership and actually got to talk to one of the Diesel tech's there. He told me he was worried that if he ran a diagnostic on it he would end up telling me the same thing that the high balance rates would not have dropped the overall fuel pressure enough, and i would be out the money for the labor. So I asked him what he thought i should do. He looked at me and said well are you getting fuel in your oil?? I had changed it two days prior and i told him i didnt think so. He said well if you are, then that is a warranty issue. Then he gave me the look.... like are you understanding me... I asked him if there was any way of telling where that fuel came from and he smiled and said NO. He says, "so if you want to go check your oil and see if you are getting fuel in it and come back if there is we can take care of you.... thats my advice" I looked at the service manager and he gave me the nod like yup he is telling you what you think he is.... So i left and came back 10 minutes later and somehow about 12oz of diesel fuel had found its way into my oil. They smelled my dipstick and said sure enough we gotta get that fixed and it will be under warranty so do you want to leave it with us now. I said heck yeah lets do this. So the service manager goes over to the computer and starts the stuff and then his jaw drips. He looks at me and says guess what the delivery date was on your truck. Sept. 16, 2002. Which puts me just under 2 months out of the warranty. F
Just my luck. I really needed a beer at this point. but instead i went home and changed my brand new fuelly oil and did some thinking....
I have a guy who will fix it for me in a couple weeks at like $80hr labor + parts. BUT i think that I might just try to do it myself... so I'm going to go start a DIY thread for injectors if i cant find one.
Something is not right. I don't believe the delivery date has anything to do with the issue. It is the year model of the truck. See if you can get a copy of the service bulletin that covers the 2001 -2003 trucks injector issues.
Mine is an 03 and was covered by the 200K mile warranty and I bought the truck used.
Here is the link to the SB.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?t=1323&highlight=service+bulletins
If you have the injectors done elsewhere you many still be entitled to reimbursement. Check that out carefully. Mine were replaced before the SB cameout and I submitted for reimbursement and got it. It was over $4200.00.
Mine is an 03 and was covered by the 200K mile warranty and I bought the truck used.
Here is the link to the SB.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?t=1323&highlight=service+bulletins
If you have the injectors done elsewhere you many still be entitled to reimbursement. Check that out carefully. Mine were replaced before the SB cameout and I submitted for reimbursement and got it. It was over $4200.00.
HoytBows
Member
Yeah it says 7 years from when the vehicle was placed into service. Which is the delivery date to the customer..