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EFI Live Announces Cummins Support!

8100 Power said:
They say everything is progressing well, but from Andrews post this morning they haven't gave a exact date when they will release it.
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Suppossedly a few beta's are running around, but I haven't actually seen or heard from anyone that is a tester.

Haven't heard anything on CompD which is where I'd expect to see something on as soon as it was out.
 
Cumminalong said:
Suppossedly a few beta's are running around, but I haven't actually seen or heard from anyone that is a tester.

Haven't heard anything on CompD which is where I'd expect to see something on as soon as it was out.
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You can actually read the ECM right now, you just can't view what you read.

It looks like it's coming soon!!
 
Yeah, READING the ECM has never been the issue.

WRITING to the ECM is the problem.

You can get in and view the tables and such, but they're so twisted and interlinked that making one change that you think is for, say boost, and you may also be changing another parameter.

They've been saying EFI Live is close on the Cummins for a while, but, I'll believe it when I see it.

Trust me, I'd love to see it, but I think it's just hype right now.
 
Cumminalong said:
Yeah, READING the ECM has never been the issue.

WRITING to the ECM is the problem.

You can get in and view the tables and such, but they're so twisted and interlinked that making one change that you think is for, say boost, and you may also be changing another parameter.

They've been saying EFI Live is close on the Cummins for a while, but, I'll believe it when I see it.

Trust me, I'd love to see it, but I think it's just hype right now.
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I respectively disagree Rich. Ross and Paul have never promised something and not come through with it.

You said yourself that some betas are running around..?
 
8100 Power said:
I respectively disagree Rich. Ross and Paul have never promised something and not come through with it.

You said yourself that some betas are running around..?
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Suppossedly running around.....not ARE running around.

No one has seen them or gotten any results yet.

Like I said, if it was out and running around and in a beta stage, I'm sure it would be floating around places like CompD and there hasn't been anything on it yet.

I hope it does come out, I really do. I'm not gonna sit on the edge of my seat waiting on it, but I certainly would like to see it pulled off.

It would be nice to know what's actually going on with the different settings and the specfic changes to each parameter.

Unfortunately, the Cummins ECM isn't set up to be friendly like that.
 
Well the laytest update is they are hoping to move into BETA with a finalized version in the next 2 or 3 weeks. ROSS is flying to New Zealand now to finalize the BETA version for the 5.9L and possibly the 6.7L. Pricing for them has been released as well.
 
Yep...I see the software updates for the V2 are mostly based on "working in" the Cummins support...shouldn't be long now...
 
Unfortunately, that's nothing that can't already be done.

Reading isn't the problem.....

Flashing isn't the problem....

Recovering from a failed load isn't the problem.....

These have been done for years by every other tuner on the market.

What they're talking about "beta testing" is what every other tuner on the market for the Cummins does and has done.

Live tuning.....live individual parameter changes.....table manipulation......THAT will be an accomplishment.

When they can do that, I'll be all over it. Until then, they're 7 years behind with "beta's".
 
Here, just for the sake of keeping this in perspective....

This thread STARTED on 10-28-2009.

How many times since then have we heard, "maybe next week.......maybe 2 weeks.....maybe 3 weeks......"

I'll believe it when I see it.

Again, trust me, I'd love to see it......but, I'm not holding my breath that it'll be any major advancement or what is currently available.
 
What are you looking for here Rich?

You will be able to read and program tune files to your Dodge with the changers that YOU want and not a preprogrammed package like handheld tuners. Why are you not impressed with that?

It gives you control like you have never had. I don't understand you point I don't guess.
 
The point is this.....

Is it just another "flash" device or is it going to be a true LIVE environment.

Will I be able to go, "At 0 - 5 psi, I want 22* degrees of timing....at 6-10 psi I want 20*.....etc."?

Or, will it be like every other "flash" based tuner on the market for the Cummins where you don't REALLY know what it's doing.

So far I'm not seeing that. If I'm missing it, I'm sorry, but that's not what they've even talked about.

Right now they are still figuring out the read and flash scenarios and keeping the ECM from crashing.....that's nothing new.

I can go in to it RIGHT NOW and modify the timing, the torque manegement, the duration, the rail pressure, etc......but I don't KNOW exactly what the parameters are.

The capability is there, that's nothing new. Being able to see INDIVIDUAL PARAMETERS is what will impress me.....otherwise, it's just another one the many that does the same thing.

Stuff like "flying to New Zealand....meeting with Tom, Dick and Harry.....red, red yellow and green", isn't impressive.

Where's the biggest market? Right here in the US.

Where's the largest population of folks that know the motor inside and out? Right here in the US.

Where's the group of folks that have more time making power out of these things than any place else? Yeah, right here.

Where's the beta testers?.....haven't heard from a single one.

Have heard plenty of times, "maybe next week"

Guys have been screaming for this YEARS. There are more folks interested in seeing this come to life than ANY other product on the market. If it came to life, it would make EVERY OTHER tuner on the market OBSOLETE. That's not an overstatement, that's FACT.

So where is it? Where has it been?

It's like the VP44 guys waiting on a tune that will reliably give them 4000 RPM's and not have quirks.......it's just a few weeks away.

It certainly keep interest up, but like many others, I won't hold my breath. I'll believe it when I see it.

There are 3 kinds of people. Optimists, Pessimists and Realists......I tend to be the third type.
 
Cumminalong said:
The point is this.....

Is it just another "flash" device or is it going to be a true LIVE environment.

Will I be able to go, "At 0 - 5 psi, I want 22* degrees of timing....at 6-10 psi I want 20*.....etc."?

Or, will it be like every other "flash" based tuner on the market for the Cummins where you don't REALLY know what it's doing.

So far I'm not seeing that. If I'm missing it, I'm sorry, but that's not what they've even talked about.

Right now they are still figuring out the read and flash scenarios and keeping the ECM from crashing.....that's nothing new.

I can go in to it RIGHT NOW and modify the timing, the torque manegement, the duration, the rail pressure, etc......but I don't KNOW exactly what the parameters are.

The capability is there, that's nothing new. Being able to see INDIVIDUAL PARAMETERS is what will impress me.....otherwise, it's just another one the many that does the same thing.

Stuff like "flying to New Zealand....meeting with Tom, Dick and Harry.....red, red yellow and green", isn't impressive.

Where's the biggest market? Right here in the US.

Where's the largest population of folks that know the motor inside and out? Right here in the US.

Where's the group of folks that have more time making power out of these things than any place else? Yeah, right here.

Where's the beta testers?.....haven't heard from a single one.

Have heard plenty of times, "maybe next week"

Guys have been screaming for this YEARS. There are more folks interested in seeing this come to life than ANY other product on the market. If it came to life, it would make EVERY OTHER tuner on the market OBSOLETE. That's not an overstatement, that's FACT.

So where is it? Where has it been?

It's like the VP44 guys waiting on a tune that will reliably give them 4000 RPM's and not have quirks.......it's just a few weeks away.

It certainly keep interest up, but like many others, I won't hold my breath. I'll believe it when I see it.

There are 3 kinds of people. Optimists, Pessimists and Realists......I tend to be the third type.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure you familiar with the software. Yes, you can set your individual numbers at different situations .

Look at this timing table for example:
timingexample.jpg

You Quoted: "Or, will it be like every other "flash" based tuner on the market for the Cummins where you don't REALLY know what it's doing. "

Yes you will, EFILive has a powerful logging tool where you can monitor the parameters that you tune! So you know right where timing, fuel pressure, etc is at. You can save it and review it for later.

So review, make adjustments to fine tune it, then flash back.

When you state "LIVE TUNING", If you thinking having a computer and switching up the numbers real time without flashing back ( which you can do with a Roadrunner ECM on a duramax), then NO you can't do that. But, I'm sure in the future you'll be able if they find a need for it.

The two owners live overseas and work in two different countries, so yes he has to fly to see him to work side by side together. Don't think he's flying across the earth for the heck of it!

I advise you to download the software and take a look at some GM files, that will let you know and answer your questions first hand of what it'll be like.

And yes, I believe when they release this 100% companies like Smarty, etc WILL see a drop in business, but people will still buy as they don't want the trouble of tuning themselves and would rather just plug a box in.
 
I know how the EFI Live software works and how the tables are, that's not the issue at all.

It's easy to do with the GM ECM's.....I've said that all along, that's never been in question.

The tables in the Cummins ECM aren't that simple. I can go in with current software and add 1* of timing, but it does it across the board. I can add duration, but it does it across the board. If that's all it gives us, it's nothing new. If it gives the ability to modify the tables like it does on the GM's, it'll be awesome, no doubt about it.

What is in question is this.....WHERE ARE THESE "BETA TESTERS". Not these couple ECM's they have sitting on a bench......working trucks, geting miles put on them, tweaking tunes, finding the flaws......it's not there yet, not even close.

There have been countless guys that 1 - know how to tune, 2 - have the facilities to REALLY test, 3 - have vehicles that can really push the limits of the software.

But, every time the question is posed, and it's been posed by some of the big boys, you get this for an answer.....

"The initial beta phase will be conducted with existing customers who are already intimately familiar with the EFILive products and processes. This decision is intended to ensure that product familiarity do not cause unnecessary issues for either the user or EFILive as we try to progress through the beta phase. Additionally we ideally wish for the beta participants to have the ability to recover the Cummins ECM with other tools should a problem be identified, it is beta afterall. For this reason individuals (personal users) will generally not be considered due to the potential for issues."

That was less than a week ago. It was also the same thing said over a year ago.

Like I said, I want to see it, I really do. Trust me, if it happens, I'll be right in line to get it. But, again, I think it's more creative marketing than anything else. Noting wrong with that, but the proof is in the pudding and I ain't had no pudding yet.
 
Cumminalong said:
Heck, I'd be happy seeing some screen shots of it working one of the Cummins ECM's.
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They had this months ago with some of the initial reads showing the tables and break downs just like the GM tables. The problem has been that the CUMMINS ECM doesn't adjust the tables like a GM does, so there will be a learning curve I'm sure. In a GM ECM the fueling triangle is fairly simple to understand as you have a base table and then 1 or 2 other limiting tables. They were saying in the CUMMINS ECM that they more so work together with multiple tables to achieve the goal rather than one table with limiters and references. This has been the hold up for the last several months is trying to read and make teh tables understandable is how I understand it.
 
Exactly!

This is what I've said from the get go.

READING the data has never been the problem. FLASHING has never been the problem.

Like I said, they're 7 years behind everyone on that front.

MANIPULATING it without screwing up 10 other things has always been the problem.

When they achieve that, they'll have made progress.

So far, it's not at that level.
 
Cumminalong said:
MANIPULATING it without screwing up 10 other things has always been the problem.
Click to expand...

The way I understand it was that is how the CUMMINS ECM works. It doesn't work on simple tables like a GM does where fuel, timing, and boost are all in there own tables. It works via a triangle basically where several tables work together. And according to the guys at EFI, tuning WILL be included with the BETA release that's coming out now.
 
Well they just released there latest update that has editing and flashing support for there BETA testers tonight.
 
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