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Adventure Vehicles NW vs Autoworld Motor Mounts

S

Scholioso

Active Member
Messages
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Location
Ca
Alright guys,

So I've been in the process of swapping a 12v into my 1996 K3500. Without getting too detailed, I wanted to retain the 4l80e so as to try to keep the fabrication to a minimum.

I originally ordered an adapter plate, flex plate, & motor mounts from autoworld or cumminsdieselrepowers.com. The adapter plate & flex plate is actually made by destroked.com. I bought this plate & flex plate a number of years ago for this same project, but sold those when I was strapped for cash. Ordering it through autoworld gets you $100 off the package. So thru autoworld, I spent about $1400 for the adapter plate & flex plate. The motor mounts from autoworld were roughly another $400. I ordered these & was going to use them. (Notice the dimes on this thing)
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Well, I found most people use an nv4500 & it's a pretty easy swap from auto to manual. So I returned the motor mounts, adapter plate, etc. I also found a cheap nv4500 so I picked it up. Well, it ended up being junk. So great. Now I have no trans, no mounts, etc.

So while scouring craigslist, I found a 4l80e that had just been rebuilt by Jasper 100 miles ago but the case was broken in an accident. So I picked it up, & went back to my original plan of using a 4l80e. But now I have a problem.

See when I returned the motor mounts, adapter plate & flex plate to autoworld, they didnt have money to immediately refund me. They couldn't refund the money till they resold it. I found this odd for a business. However, I am not a businessman. Needless to say, they weren't happy with me. So ordering thru them again was a no go.

I then found a company called adventurevehiclesnw.com. They too sell an adapter plate, flex plate, & motor mounts for gmt400's. And they were waaaaay cheaper! For the adapter plate & flex plate it was an even $1000. For the motor mounts, $250. So overall I saved around $600!

But this is where I start having problems. I received the nice shiny new adapter plate & flex plate. The bolt holes for the adapter plate are ever so slightly off on some of the holes that the bolts grind & bind into the plate. This is odd. I would've thought they would catch this in the design or test phase of it.

Anyways, I emailed Joel @ the company & he emailed the actual maker of the plate. They suggested to take a file & shave down the side that the bolts were digging in. Instead, I found a drill bit that fit snugly in the hold &used a hand drill & just ran the bit in & out of the hole a couple of times. It shaved off just enough to where the bolt would rub, but not bind like it originally did.

Ok, so I solved one problem. Flex plate had no issues. I then received the motor mounts a few weeks later. This is where I guess the cost factor plays a role.

These are the mounts I received from adventurevehiclesnw.com. I am not impressed at all. I am not a professional welder, so I cannot say accurately whether these are good or not. However, for the professional welders here, I would really like to get some advice as I'm now really in a pickle. I have emailed Joel to see if this can be resolved, so we will see what happens. This mount is on the passenger side & as you can see in the first pic, its tilted & appears to not be welded correctly in line. You can see how the legs are not flush with the top like it appears they attempted to do.

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I'm not meaning to bag on either company, as no one is perfect. I am merely sharing my experience with both as I'm sure some are contemplating going thru either company. I would however like to get feedback & possibly some ideas as to what to do now.

Thanks
 
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Will L. said:
Email Them and show them the difference. Ask for another set properly made this time. Tell them to include a shipping label to get the old ones back after you get the new ones.
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I can try, but I just dont think that's going to work. I feel like that's going to be hard to argue considering this is "custom". I've never been in this situation before.
 
If not, then it’s a case of run it how it is, or hire a local welder to modify it.

Yes the first one looked picture perfect. And the second one is not straight. The welds dont look great, but I dont see proper penetration. In person inspection might say its ok, I am only seeing it on my phone.
 
4L80E behind a Cummins!?

jiFfM.jpg

Maybe an Allison or NV5600. Many better manual transmissions to choose from as well. What you save will be spent on the many blown 4L80E's...
 
Well I dont really want a manual honestly. I'd rather just get in & go. I daily drive a 6 speed corvette, so I have my fill of shifting with that. I really want to do an allison but the adapter plate was super stupid expensive as well as the controller. Plus the cost of the dang thing, it was absurd. Also the cost of the transfer case, then driveshaft yokes. etc. Just too expensive for rn.

The 4l80e is upgraded & has a combination of transgo & sonnax shift kits & better bushings, etc. Upgraded clutches & steels, etc. It should be alright for a stock cummins. Regardless, that's not the point of this thread.

I'm going to see if I can find a welder to take a look at it & see what they say. If they say it's not good, I'm going to approach AdventureVehiclesNW & tell them that a professional welder deemed it unsafe or something & go from there.
 
I have to disagree with WW on the 4L80e. Yes the ally is much stronger and a better choice. But purpose built 4l80e can handle the hp and torque of the cummins as a daily work truck for a long life. It is the #1 most adapted transmission available for a reason. Hughes builds 1500 hp capable 4l80e that is good for 3-4years. Their 1000 hp one is good for 5-6 years. Granted those are $5k and almost $4k units. But their track record of longevity is great. Do it half way and you’ll get the chance to do it right the second time- haha.

Retake the pictures you took, specifically the last 3. Get them in good lighting and post them up we can mark up the pics for you to email them. They wont fight you on it. Partnof the welds are good and it will be plain to them they need to redo it. Your pics showing they are not even square should be included.
Just dont be a jerk in the email, but explain you know sometimes things slip through quality control and you would
Like to have them redo it rather than just having them retuened for money. There are several welders here.

I have to try marking them up on my phone wih my finger, if someone else here can do it a little more professionally, plz jump in.
 
Will L. said:
I have to disagree with WW on the 4L80e. Yes the ally is much stronger and a better choice. But purpose built 4l80e can handle the hp and torque of the cummins as a daily work truck for a long life. It is the #1 most adapted transmission available for a reason. Hughes builds 1500 hp capable 4l80e that is good for 3-4years. Their 1000 hp one is good for 5-6 years. Granted those are $5k and almost $4k units. But their track record of longevity is great. Do it half way and you’ll get the chance to do it right the second time- haha.

Retake the pictures you took, specifically the last 3. Get them in good lighting and post them up we can mark up the pics for you to email them. They wont fight you on it. Partnof the welds are good and it will be plain to them they need to redo it. Your pics showing they are not even square should be included.
Just dont be a jerk in the email, but explain you know sometimes things slip through quality control and you would
Like to have them redo it rather than just having them retuened for money. There are several welders here.

I have to try marking them up on my phone wih my finger, if someone else here can do it a little more professionally, plz jump in.
Click to expand...
And the 4l85e(the stronger version) is known to let go in stock form behind the detuned duramax. The 4l80e is ok, but put a load behind it and they're known to show thete true colors. For what hes spent messing around with the 4l80e, he could have built a 47rh and been done with it. So many make this mistake. Trying to save a few bucks almost always costs you more in the end. You still have to modify the mounts and driveshafts to run the 4l80e behind the cummins because of how much you have to move everything back to squeeze the cummins in. You still jave to get a controller to run it, so what have you saved by retaining an inferior transmission. Yes the 4l80e can hold big hp, but what it does not do well is hold big torque, and what it hates is low rpm stump pulling torque like a 6bt is known for.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
And the 4l85e(the stronger version) is known to let go in stock form behind the detuned duramax. The 4l80e is ok, but put a load behind it and they're known to show thete true colors. For what hes spent messing around with the 4l80e, he could have built a 47rh and been done with it. So many make this mistake. Trying to save a few bucks almost always costs you more in the end. You still have to modify the mounts and driveshafts to run the 4l80e behind the cummins because of how much you have to move everything back to squeeze the cummins in. You still jave to get a controller to run it, so what have you saved by retaining an inferior transmission. Yes the 4l80e can hold big hp, but what it does not do well is hold big torque, and what it hates is low rpm stump pulling torque like a 6bt is known for.
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I decided on the 47RH because tried and true behind the Cummins and will take most 48RE parts & if there is a total electrical failure it will revert to 3 speeds w/o damaging anything other than MPG's.
 
It looked like the MT setup you had for mounts was better quality. Others have noted better automatics. Just saying behind a 6.5 the 4L80E overrun clutch pack for 3rd gear compression brakeing gets smoked off quick. Then 50k miles life and TCC clutch is toast.

Sorry for the derail, but, it may help you in a different direction with different adapters and mounts.
 
Don’t let my comment influence you in this about keeping it over a better transmission - those guys forgot way more transmission knowledge than I will ever have. If I have a trans issue those are the first two guys I am gonna ask.
I just felt like WW was saying its a p.o.s. when it is a great trans.
 
Ok, I get it. 4l80e sucks, shoulda used the dodge trans.

MOVING ON. I'm really bummed here. I emailed Joel & he said that he has them in a jig that holds everything in place while he welds it. Ok, looks like something slipped but whatever. Secondly, that doesn't change the weld quality. Which is what I'm really worried about. This is going to hold the motor for Christ sake. Last thing I wanna do is have those break & the engine drops while going down the highway. Who knows what would happen then.

I'm stuck now cuz I dont want to run the 1st gen mounts regardless. They are known to be weaker that the 2nd gens. So I was looking at possibly trying to make mounts like the 2nd gen mounts fit in my frame or send these mounts back & get just the plates & pay a professional in my area to weld them up.

I have 2nd gen motor mounts that are off of the dodge. So I could in theory get thick steel plate, make the same style of frame mounts as on the dodge & mock em in to place on my truck, then pay a welder to weld em to my frame?

All of this come downs to money, so we shall see. If I can get just the metal pieces from Joel @ AVNW for cheaper, might just do that so I can be done with it.

Does anyone have a template by chance for the 2nd gen frame mounts? I have access to a plasma table & mills, lathes, cc, etc.

Update: the 2nd gen mounts wont work as they sit too far back & spread out too far. I would need mounts that sit almost directly at the bolt locations. I'm looking at different dodge cummins trucks to see if I can utilize maybe a motor mount of a different year. If anyone knows of one, let me know. Thanks
 
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Did you purchase any of these parts on a credit card? One call for defective returned merchandise should get a refund from card.

@Will L. To be fair if I ever owned a Trailblazer SS with the Corvette LS2 again I would drop a 4L80E/4L85E behind it in a heartbeat because the 4L70E it comes with is not only a POS but a bomb waiting to go off if it fails and doubles the input drum speed. I got 3000 miles out of a 4L70E towing the parts route when I get 50K out of a 4L80E. Yes better than most other GM offerings, but, all transmissions have a hard time behind diesel torque.

If you have to run it: change the oil every 25K miles, Better Triple disc converter, and don't use it for compression braking at all, period.
 
There are aftermarket 1st gen poly mounts with beefy retainer plates if they should fail............there are guys running the stock 1st gen mounts w/big HP, I suspect they are not any less reliable that say the 6.5td mounts.
 
MrMarty51 said:
If it were Me.
Buy the appropriate steel in the proper thickness, then cut out new pieces and have them welded together, using the mounts You have as a guide, then return them boooogerd mounts back to them, explaining they are unacceptable and You got the issue resolved.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad idea either. Screaminseemanoffroad.com has some mounts for $400 that are really custom. They utilize the stock 4 bolt mounts of the original 6.5 mounts. I like it cuz it has more bolts & just seems like it would be stronger. However, they are more expensive than the AVNW mounts ($250). So I will have to make a choice as far as that goes.

I do like your suggestion though. I might have to do that. I don't really want to run the 1st gen mounts in general cuz I hear the rubber versions are not very good. I also don't want to run polyurethane as they transmit a lot of the vibrations to the cab.

This truck is not a tow pig. It's a standard pickup. Doing jobs around the house, maybe towing a trailer every now & then. Other than that, I just wanted a big bada** truck. So I dont need globs of power. Just enough to do work. I do like going fast but that's why I have a vette. So comfort & reliability, etc is a must in this.
 
I'll do that. I'll update ya'll as I hear back from him. My other thought process was what if I could have AVNW just send me the plates, & I could take them to get welded up. That might be even better? Obviously I would try to negotiate for a better price since it was supposed to be $250 for them finished & now I'm receiving them not finished instead. I'll argue for $100 off the purchase price as a standard decent welder charges right around that as an hourly rate. Sounds fair to me. Thoughts?
 
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