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A military rebuilt 6.5

Ok she's running again. Should I just stop there and be like those people you know on Facebook that like to throw stuff out there like that and wait for you to ask them what's going on???? :wideyed:

Nah. So at first it felt the same. I was a whee but disheartened to be sure but figured I should take it for a drive. I drove it about 5 miles with some stops and starts then came home. Once I got home I threw my OTC code reader on it to see if it would even read timing, it doesn't. But I do think it's a whee bit more advanced as it's a little louder now. Or maybe it's just stronger and can overcome the high-pop injectors better so it actually is running a bit more advanced? Anyway, the important thing is that the longer it's running the smoother it's running. I suppose the computer is learning the new pump and trying to forget the old pump's habits? Or maybe the #5 injector is reacting to finally being exercised unlike before with the old pump? Dunno. Either way it seems I found the problem but I'll wait to read the verdict until more miles are accumulated. Right now I'm cautiously optimistic. :)

Oh and I grabbed the bottle of marine 2 stroke I had on the shelf so I could pour some in my tank when I fill up tomorrow.
 
Set the timing and TDCO sooner than later. The rate of 2 stroke is max 1 oz per gal diesel or 3 times that amount per gal kerosene, jet etc.
 
FellowTraveler said:
Set the timing and TDCO sooner than later. The rate of 2 stroke is max 1 oz per gal diesel or 3 times that amount per gal kerosene, jet etc.
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Yeah a guy in the IT department at work is going to look at my old laptop for me to see if it will run well enough for Car Code. That way I can set it all myself

1oz per gallon, got it thanks :)
 
n8in8or said:
Yeah a guy in the IT department at work is going to look at my old laptop for me to see if it will run well enough for Car Code. That way I can set it all myself

1oz per gallon, got it thanks :)
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So you will not have to worry just datalog and adjust if need be remember whip any codes before any new setting or it will not take.

Can't wait to hear that badboy roar!
 
JayTheCPA said:
X2

Or more specifically, set the KOKO TDCO re-learn now (rather than later) to make sure that the IP is at least within acceptable range. After setting the TDCO re-learn, the ECM will immediately code if the IP is out of range and then just correct the IP's mounting.
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This made sense to me Jay....at least I would know if the pump was way off so I could take care of it immediately by manually moving it and using trial-and-error.

So during lunch I did the KOKO procedure. It didn't notice it go through a huge range but it did seem even smoother after. I drove around a little after that and it is quieter and smoothER now, though still not totally smooth. What it is now though is a bit lazier and smokier. So I guess it is now further away from -1.94? I'm going to see if I can get with my brother this weekend and then I'll try to manipulate the TDCO by using the scanner and raising the idle while in the learning mode. If not I'll see if I can get in Monday to do it.

At least now I know it's not going to hurt itself. Thanks for the advice.

I'm starting to feel that whatever miss/shake/whatever I have is cam and/or precup related. It's not terrible now by any means, I just know it's there. It feels more acceptable now to me, whereas before it seemed obnoxious.
 
n8in8or said:
So I guess it is now further away from -1.94?
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Meh . . . I am not sold that going after -1.94 in an OBD II system is worthwhile as the timing is dynamic; specifically the ECM will use data tables will control the situation anyway. But then again, perhaps I am missing something . . .


n8in8or said:
. . . during lunch I did the KOKO procedure. . . . it did seem even smoother after.. . . it is now though is a bit lazier and smokier.
Click to expand...

Am leaning toward an adjustment to the tune.


n8in8or said:
I'm starting to feel that whatever miss/shake/whatever I have is cam and/or precup related. It's not terrible now by any means . . .
Click to expand...

Will let others weigh-in about the lingering shake . . .
 
JayTheCPA said:
Meh . . . I am not sold that going after -1.94 in an OBD II system is worthwhile as the timing is dynamic; specifically the ECM will use data tables will control the situation anyway. But then again, perhaps I am missing something...
Click to expand...

The only info I have on the subject is from my butt dyno. When I first took it to my brother the TDCO was at -2.02. After it relearned with the scan tool it was at -1.14. On the drive back it didn't feel as "peppy" as it did before. Now after doing the KOKO procedure, it feels even lazier and I seem to be getting more black smoke. Of course I have no idea what the value is, but when I get to read it I will follow up. I of course understand the unreliability of the butt dyno and that perceptions are unreliable....so I am purely sharing this based on what I'm feeling.
 
Regarding the TDCO and OBD-II, am open to correction by the better experts . . . As I understand OBD-II and injection timing, the TDCO (as reported by the ECM) is the physical location of the IP's mounting. When triggering the TDCO re-learn, the ECM 're-discovers' the actual (physical) position of the IP and from there continually adjusts timing (according to data tables) via the stepper motor. So, the ECM actually controls the timing and uses the physical IP orientation as a reference point.

Back to the smoke . . . Am leaning toward the tune as the ECM is possibly commanding too much fuel or the data tables are too retarded. Possible that there is an air restriction, but doubt it given all the work.

Took a look back a the earlier parts of the thread; was this motor originally N/A?
 
JayTheCPA said:
Regarding the TDCO and OBD-II, am open to correction by the better experts . . . As I understand OBD-II and injection timing, the TDCO (as reported by the ECM) is the physical location of the IP's mounting. When triggering the TDCO re-learn, the ECM 're-discovers' the actual (physical) position of the IP and from there continually adjusts timing (according to data tables) via the stepper motor. So, the ECM actually controls the timing and uses the physical IP orientation as a reference point.

Back to the smoke . . . Am leaning toward the tune as the ECM is possibly commanding too much fuel or the data tables are too retarded. Possible that there is an air restriction, but doubt it given all the work.

Took a look back a the earlier parts of the thread; was this motor originally N/A?
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Yeah, I don't know how it works exactly either, but if it is a rediscovery thing and tells the pump where it is, then it looks like it just rediscovered that the pump is slightly more retarded than it was before. And then by manipulating the TDCO value in the PCM, you can essentially advance or retard the injection timing electronically rather than having to physically move the pump, right? That sounds reasonable to me.

The only point I'm making about the smoke is that it is smokier after my lunch than it was before my lunch, and the only thing that changed during my lunch was doing the TDCO relearn. It is also quieter, which also sounds like it's more retarded.

Yes, it was originally N/A, but I had the precups machined to Diamond+ specs.
precups 1.jpg
 
n8in8or said:
Yeah, I don't know how it works exactly either, but if it is a rediscovery thing and tells the pump where it is, then it looks like it just rediscovered that the pump is slightly more retarded than it was before. And then by manipulating the TDCO value in the PCM, you can essentially advance or retard the injection timing electronically rather than having to physically move the pump, right? That sounds reasonable to me.

The only point I'm making about the smoke is that it is smokier after my lunch than it was before my lunch, and the only thing that changed during my lunch was doing the TDCO relearn. It is also quieter, which also sounds like it's more retarded.

Yes, it was originally N/A, but I had the precups machined to Diamond+ specs.
View attachment 44923
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I lied. I also filled up and put 2 stroke oil in the tank. I put 24 ounces of 2-stroke oil in and 25 gallons of diesel. So the TDCO Relearn AND the 2 stroke oil are 2 things that changed during my lunch.
 
The 2 stroke will not make smoke as it burns at the same rates as the diesel while it does smoke in 2 stroke gas motors because of different burn rates.

More smoke after lunch maybe cold temp fueling under 170 deg.f

Lots of smoke maybe excessive fueling issue try and crank boost some to see if it dissipates.
 
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Fuel solenoid at 90 deg off horizontal is the starting point if all else is good like timing chain etc.

I don't remember if you run gear drive for timing this type of drive has 2 deg advance built into it -1.85/-1.87 TDCO is max recommended.
 
FellowTraveler said:
The 2 stroke will not make smoke as it burns at the same rates as the diesel while it does smoke in 2 stroke gas motors because of different burn rates.

More smoke after lunch maybe cold temp fueling under 170 deg.f

Lots of smoke maybe excessive fueling issue try and crank boost some to see if it dissipates.
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Oh I'm sorry....the excessive smoke is until the turbo lights, once it's lit it's just a haze. It just seems to be taking longer to light.

FellowTraveler said:
Fuel solenoid at 90 deg off horizontal is the starting point if all else is good like timing chain etc.

I don't remember if you run gear drive for timing this type of drive has 2 deg advance built into it -1.85/-1.87 TDCO is max recommended.
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It's pretty darn close to 90 if it isn't right on. I'm running the timing chain that came on the Optimizer because it was still tight.
 
n8in8or said:
Oh I'm sorry....the excessive smoke is until the turbo lights, once it's lit it's just a haze. It just seems to be taking longer to light.



It's pretty darn close to 90 if it isn't right on. I'm running the timing chain that came on the Optimizer because it was still tight.
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Pull the air-filter and try it to see if the turbo lights sooner the reason I suggest this is that the filter you are using has a water resistant membrane any moisture can freeze causing a restriction and less air would make more smoke.
 
FellowTraveler said:
Pull the air-filter and try it to see if the turbo lights sooner the reason I suggest this is that the filter you are using has a water resistant membrane any moisture can freeze causing a restriction and less air would make more smoke.
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I could try that, but it's actually 70*F here today! So I don't think it's freezing.
 
I didn't enjoy driving it last noght with the way it felt so I decided to advance the pump a little to see if it helped. I made my own wrenches put of a Craftsman 15mm box end and a Craftsman 15mm 12 point 3/8" drive socket. I couldn't make a tool that would reach both lower nuts so that's why I made the unconventional tool with the socket. Once I had the tools made and the return line unhooked it was pretty easy to get the nuts loose but it did take a while to get the driver's side wrench right I will admit. Even after looking up pictures I still struggled getting it right. I moved the pump 1mm to the driver side and then tightened all the nuts. I fired it up and it sounded good, so I took it up and down the street to get it up to operating temp. Then I did a KOKO relearn again. It feels better now and still no check engine light. It's tempting to advance it just a little further but I'll wait until I have a scanner so I can check my timing exactly. I'm going to get Car Code ordered really soon because I hope to have a working laptop this week. Once I have that it will be nice to data log and see more of what's going on. image.jpgimage.jpg
 
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