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300hp possible???

300hp possible?

Yup.

Not inexpensively though. There are some pretty finite limitations inherent in the gm 6.5 IDI design. From structural issues to heat, there's lots of obstacles to overcome on the trek to 300HP. 300 Hp at the wheels is going to be almost prohibitively expensive.....

A 12v will get you there easier, but there are other compromises such as weight, downtime, custom fabricating, etc.

Don't fool yourself on cost either. How cheap a 12v swap is depends on how good of a scrounger you are, how many miles youre willing to settle for on a swap engine, how good of a fabricator you are, etc. Then there's follow on costs; that cummins will wear out the GM front end faster than a 6.5 due to just shear mass crushing down on it. IE: ball joints, wheel bearings, tie rods, etc.....4x4's more so than 2wd trucks.

If I had to do it over again (was traveling across country when my engine died) I would have gone a different route than replacing the dead 599 block with an new 6500 Optimizer. That was a cool 10 grand after the dust settled.

Oh what I could have built for 10 grand..............ah well, water under the bridge.......at least the truck runs very well now.

For a 6.5 that is.

And my front end lasts as long as GM intended it to. Which isn't really a compliment either......:rolleyes5:
 
Haha yea I know what you mean. This is my first diesel so I want to do good with it. I'll have a solid setup when I get done but it's the getting done part that takes forever lol. And I could fabricate everything myself and do a solid axle in the front for the cummins swap but that'll be the next truck I do or this one way on down the road. I'll post some pics when I get time to in the near future maybe... I guess I'm just doing wishful thinking talking about a cummins swap don't really take me for knocking the 6.5...at least not yet lol
 
crash2win64 said:
Those last four words are the main thing there lol. Putting a cummins in would be piece of mind and lighter on the wallet that's for sure. It sounds way better to me to spend less and get more in terms of reliability, doesn't it to you there TD? I'm stuck though and the money's already spent so the saying goes...hindsight is 20/20 right? :)
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Easy is well just that easy sort of, dropping in Cummins works with effort , its been a while since I've rolled the dyno, last time was 2005 I'm knocking on door of 300 rwhp, how close to 300 I really don't know. I've known a few guys opting for the Cummins citing great things, and others with not as much Love for the setup.

As for durability ? I'm still playing with my original engine built in 1998 and 220K on it.

Cummins for peace of mind ? maybe, isn't plug & play but is a good upgrade maybe even a great one with effort if one wants to go that route.

For me no regrets staying with the 6.5, but I'm hard-headed according to a few folks, but IMO we are just now starting to define the limit to which the 6.5 can be pushed, so I'll stick with it for a while longer.

I guess part of the passion/drive is to prove folks wrong that yes the 6.5 can deliver, ergo Bill Heath @ Bonneville with his peaked & tweaked 6.5 which is estimated to be 500+Hp @ flywheel when he set the record for the 6.5 @ 153mph in a still streetable truck.
 
Turbine Doc said:
Bill Heath @ Bonneville with his peaked & tweaked 6.5 which is estimated to be 500+Hp @ flywheel when he set the record for the 6.5 @ 153mph in a still streetable truck.
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Would Heath release that tune for the ecm if you had the right supporting modifications to your engine?

on powerstroke nation there is a guy that built a ford 7.3 idi with a DB2/DB4 hybrid inj pump. Basically is is a DB2 pump with DB4 internals that flows about 400-500 hp worth of fuel. Thats a pump that i would like to try on a 6.5 in the future when i have the cash.

I would guess that a P400 6.5 with a few modifications could easily hold that power but it would need a very good cooling system. The guy also said that this particular pump could be modified to flow even more fuel but the streetablity would probably decrease. irrc he only paid a grand for the pump too with a core. Just something to think about.
 
Woody35 said:
Would Heath release that tune for the ecm if you had the right supporting modifications to your engine?

on powerstroke nation there is a guy that built a ford 7.3 idi with a DB2/DB4 hybrid inj pump. Basically is is a DB2 pump with DB4 internals that flows about 400-500 hp worth of fuel. Thats a pump that i would like to try on a 6.5 in the future when i have the cash.

I would guess that a P400 6.5 with a few modifications could easily hold that power but it would need a very good cooling system. The guy also said that this particular pump could be modified to flow even more fuel but the streetablity would probably decrease. irrc he only paid a grand for the pump too with a core. Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Maybe, i don't know but before asking; Let's just go with we ain't finished with tunes & some other things just yet, he just clued me into something new found that is working for a guy pulling a sled with a "big turbo" (I think maybe a ATT) with a 6.5 making some decent pulls & even winning :eek: :).

IIRC Bill used to drag race with a derivative of the 7.3 injection setup you speak of, but that was mechanical on a 6.2, consider this, I'm currently capable of 120+ I quit at 122 mph no safe place for me to go faster.

Bill is making 158 + with a stock DS4, it can pump a lot more fuel than advertised, he has Air Dog & literally my FTB setup on it (I sent him a fitting for test) & is only fuel delivery mods outside of programming. Class he runs @ Bonneville limits him to run the truck with basically stock fuel type & delivery to engine (no drugs/pane) and WMI or IC only for turbo no MeOH allowed.

Bills has more tricks I can't share now to push him even further at Bonneville, I'm hoping work will allow me time to go out there with him next year as observer/crew, he keeps challenging me to bring mine, to Bonneville, I don't have the $$$ or time to make it Bonneville safe, cage-tires-fire suppression etc. Plus its still a working & hunting truck for me, cage inside it would change all that.
 
300 hp to the wheels has been done and will be done again.... there is a contributing member here whom in my estimation has been over 400 hp but no dyno to back it up. Another member drag races a swb into the 13's and dyno'd 304hp.....his motor has been together for three +++years now. Neither of these are huge money pits, they, like you, do the work themselves. The challenge is definitely there to keep everything together.

My policy is build big and turn it down...LOL.
 
Yea I'm hoping to be around the 250 mark starting out. I have to see what time and money will allow me to do with everything. Kind of in a waiting game at the moment since everything's at the machine shop. I wish my head porting would have worked out. I'm really getting more interested in running WVO/pressing my own oil now and how I can figure I all out and make it work for me. Driving a truck around for cheap is pretty appealing to me personally lol
 
Next Saturday there is a open diesel dyno day about 45 min from me so I plan on putting my in to get a good baseline. It should be interesting, I'm gonna be conservative and estimate mine at 200 but next spring I wanna be closer to 400 and I will make sure I get numbers to back it up.
 
Alright guys, so say I decide to stick with the 6.5 which I would really like to do just to prove my buddies wrong. Where would be a good place to start? I don't have tons of cash just sitting around so I'll have to do it piece by piece basically but I can do all the labor myself and my best friend is one of the top fabricators in town so he can pretty much build anything I need. I just can't seem to find a good place to start. Right now I'm planning on a S&B intake, Diamond eye exhaust, and a tune from Heath. Beyond that, I have no idea.
 
That's a good start, I would throw gauges in right after the exh., before a tune.

The factory round air filter (K47) is all you need, put the money towards something else.
 
I just got the truck about a month ago and all it has now is a round K&N filter on the end of the tube, no box. Thats why I want to get the S&B setup. I do plan on gauges also.
 
I might be interested selling my S&B... still new in the box, I don't think it will work with the turbo I'm planning on using.......
OR, you could buy my whole engine package... I'm can almost guarantee it's gonna be 300+ hp

Mike
 
dually man said:
Mike, what would you put in your truck if you sold that sweet 6.5??
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Well.. If I sold it, the price would include the whole truck...... ;)
Most likely it would get a turbo charged big block other wise.

Sometimes i just wanna dump the whole project.. ( A Lil off topic here ) It gets frustrating to see all the negativity, nay saying, bickering and whining between several / certain members about certain products, TURBO's, other forums and such. It's just unbelievable to see such a small community be so un-supportive of one another at times.

Mike
 
turbonator said:
you are talking at the crank, right?
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Yeah right... I'm sure I can bust well over 300 at the crank, and before it's done... It will be 300+ hp at the rear wheels and reliably. I just see soo much shit that can be improved upon to make these things make that kind of power reliably !!

The reason I'm so certain of that is because a bone stock bottom end of a gm 3800 v6 is capable of supporting upwards of 1,000 hp!! Therefore, when I look at a Optimizer 6.5 and available components, IP's, turbo's, exhaust and such... I think 400 crank should be quite attainable.

Mike
 
Still, with the .330" plunger pump, good free flowing turbo, there is already a recorded dyno at +300rwhp. So I do not see any reason that Mike's build will not be able to attain this. With that in mind, this +300rwhp will be accompanied by +450ftlbs @ the wheels also. That is one thing the apple, (or was it the orange) will not be able to do in the same ratio. Personally, I would prefer to have higher torque #'s, as this is what we feel most with our seat of the pants dyno's anyways.

Try not to be discouraged Mike, we all seem to be a little on edge these days. As best you can, continue with your build, I for one am still waiting patiently to hear it running and to see your dyno #'s. This year, I figure we will see 3 to 5 different 6.2/6.5L builds go over the 300rwhp.

There is one member on this site, whom I firmly believe was near 400rwhp, but never got on a dyno with it.
 
Ha Ha... I do need to be reminded of that sometimes. I do however still feel that there is a barrier that can be and needs to be conquered on these engines.

I'm a HUGE fan and lover of the Buick Grand National / GNX cars as well as the 3800 series II platform... and will be owning a GN in the near future, that will be powered by a twin charged 3800 series II. Just looking at those engines and how the exhaust / custom headers and turbo layout is vs. the shoddy design on the 6.5...

I just feel that there is something to be had / gained there alone.
 
Our first custom build was addressing exactly that, the poor side-mount turbo design. We are doing another now, (just got the pistons and rods all weighed and measured for balancing) that will also be a balanced turbo exhaust. I still feel, that if we (and I mean all 6.2/6.5L owners) can keep the bottom end together and the headgaskets in it we should be able to go over 500rwhp. We are not looking for that this build though, just to get +300rwhp.

.....and Mike, we are sure that it will not be the guys that are negative and bickering all the time, who will get the +300. They are too busy pulling down to build anything up.....keep on building.
 
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