CV Axle Seperation

[Will L.]

Has the engine mounts sagged ?

They cant sag that much.
Man- there is just something funky with this truck.
I’m waiting for you to do a frame off refurbishing and get measurements of everything from n8in8or’s collection as comparison.
It just feels like a crossmember is bowed or something insane like that creating all this confusion you been fighting.

 

[Paveltolz]

Sagging…My chest, yes. Mounts…doubtful.
My engine block is an N/A 6.2 599 block so the oil pan is a little different. I do remember that little tidbit but, I don’t know if the front differential designs changed much and this one came from a salvage yard given the OEM unit’s upper mount broke the first time and again with that salvaged unit a couple of years later.

This picture is of the OEM diff back in March 2014 (Post#52 when I didn’t know enough to realize I had a differential drop kit on the truck).

I’ve lost count but, I think my current unit is the third one I’ve swapped so there’s no telling if one of the cooling fins is different or the oil pan is the culprit. I could always get the space by just grinding down the cooling fin closest to the pan. Yeah, I know, don’t do it but, in my defense, why not? This thing is grinding me down and I was so close to the finish line

Like I said, I bought a replacement diff. two years ago when I was fighting things to pull the driver’s side Output Shaft to replace the leaking seal. Now that this one was close to going in, the passenger side seal is weeping.

I’ll probably just put the replacement differential in and stop the pain with this one. Of course, there’s also the ‘devil you know’ factor to consider. With the differential dropped, I could also address the weeping seal.

 

[Paveltolz]

It is the oil pan that is causing the clearance issues. 6.5 vs 6.2 pan molding / modeling differences are the cause of the clearance.

Here's a 6.5 pan to which I've added the markings as follows:
The blue shows where my 6.2 pan differs as the 45 ish angle highlighted in yellow is not present on the 6.2.
Additionally, the orange area pounded / molded into the 6.5 pan isn't present on mine either.
The Red area is where my differential's offending cooling fine would line up.



Here's a couple of shots of my 6.2 pan with the differential out of the way.


Side view of the 6.2 pan

While there is a small notch formed to the left of the oil drain plug (which is further forward than what's molded into the 6.5 pan), that's not where the offending cooling fin almost comes in contact with it.

My granddaughters came over and we removed the front driveshaft and dropped the differential.
Once out, we separated the passenger side axle tube, removed the axle and leaking seal then put it back together again. I've not done this task before so it was an adventure for the all of us.


It's all back together now and on the transmission jack. Tomorrow I'll grind off the cooling fin to gain the clearance and make offerings to the front differential spirits that I put that one washer back correctly....

 

[dbrannon79]

Your pan is smiling at us!!

 

[dbrannon79]

Here's an odd question. and I know this probably isn't something you want to do, maybe it will help others , but on the 6.2 vs the 6.5... are the pans swappable. I know they are different, but are is the gasket fitment the same say for something like my 93 since I am working towards swapping out the old 6.5 for a decent 6.2.

 

[Paveltolz]

The pan isn't smiling so much as leering. What we can't see is the 'bird' it's giving me out of frame.

Here's an odd question. and I know this probably isn't something you want to do, maybe it will help others , but on the 6.2 vs the 6.5... are the pans swappable. I know they are different, but are is the gasket fitment the same say for something like my 93 since I am working towards swapping out the old 6.5 for a decent 6.2.

Unfortunately, in my case, the pans are not interchangeable because of differences in rear main seals. 6.5s are single piece whereas the 6.2's from 1982-1990 had a two piece rear main seal. 1991 and up have the single piece.

In 2010, Missy Good Wench started a thread on the differences https://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/oil-pan-tech-for-6-2-6-5-engines.25515/
Or course, I found her thread this morning researching an answer to the question and she addressed these differences in pan shapes and reasonings and even peculiarities with HMMWVs and other applications.

FWIW, according to Google AI results, which are about as reliable anymore as Wikipedia, "The very first 1982 models even used a woven "rope" style seal, which was later updated to a two-piece neoprene style."

When rebuilding this engine, the SCAT crank which had to be turned down to accept the two piece seal (660 N/A block).

 

[Big T]

It is the oil pan that is causing the clearance issues. 6.5 vs 6.2 pan molding / modeling differences are the cause of the clearance.

Here's a 6.5 pan to which I've added the markings as follows:
The blue shows where my 6.2 pan differs as the 45 ish angle highlighted in yellow is not present on the 6.2.
Additionally, the orange area pounded / molded into the 6.5 pan isn't present on mine either.
The Red area is where my differential's offending cooling fine would line up.

View attachment 99824

Here's a couple of shots of my 6.2 pan with the differential out of the way.
View attachment 99827 View attachment 99825

Side view of the 6.2 pan
View attachment 99826
While there is a small notch formed to the left of the oil drain plug (which is further forward than what's molded into the 6.5 pan), that's not where the offending cooling fin almost comes in contact with it.

My granddaughters came over and we removed the front driveshaft and dropped the differential.
Once out, we separated the passenger side axle tube, removed the axle and leaking seal then put it back together again. I've not done this task before so it was an adventure for the all of us.
View attachment 99828View attachment 99829

It's all back together now and on the transmission jack. Tomorrow I'll grind off the cooling fin to gain the clearance and make offerings to the front differential spirits that I put that one washer back correctly....

Don’t grind your differential cooling fin. You’ve got to assume that is also structural. Better to install a 6.5 oil pan on it.

I’m thinking your 6.2 oil pan came off a 2wd truck.

P.S. wrote this before reading Brandon’s post on swapping in a 6.5 oil pan.

 

[dbrannon79]

I would hate that you would need to manipulate your chrome pan, wonder if you acquired another 6.2 pan and modified it. not with a hammer but maybe cutting and welding in some mods. maybe even slicing off the bolt flange face and attaching it to a 6.5 pan. I know that can look like more work, but grinding off webbing from the diff like Big T says could be structural.

 

[Paveltolz]

I appreciate the concern. However, I’m not removing the whole cooling fin.
I’ve done the consulting and I’m sure that removing approximately 1” by maybe a half inch half-moon’s worth of material isn’t going to alter anything structurally.

 

[Will L.]

Probably gonna be all picky and sand it with a flapper wheel- then go the extra step and use sand paper and hand sand it linear (in Line with the fin instead of against it) to keep micro cracks from forming too I suppose…

 

[Paveltolz]

The more I look at the pan, I’m willing to bet this dent was originally caused by member 635 from when he had this engine in his 1998 K3500 and failed to notice the differentials proximity. He didn’t do the install himself so….

 

[Big T]

You have had so many issues going on with that truck.

I thought you said that you had the lift installed?

Now interference from a 6.2 pan, vs a 6.5 pan. Remind me why a 6.2 was used in this truck?

 

[Paveltolz]

Probably gonna be all picky and sand it with a flapper wheel- then go the extra step and use sand paper and hand sand it linear (in Line with the fin instead of against it) to keep micro cracks from forming too I suppose…

But quite but, in true family tradition, my oldest granddaughter was miffed at me when I took away the brake cleaner she was using to remove dirt and such from the pumpkin.

I thought you said that you had the lift installed?

Now interference from a 6.2 pan, vs a 6.5 pan. Remind me why a 6.2 was used in this truck?

Ok, I’m killing time before going up to SLC for an appointment at the VA…Long story recap follows.

Issues: Other than wear and tear. I’ve had two big issues that have taken a long time to sort out. Biggest one, the bad valves not caught during the rebuild and the topic of this thread…the suspension with the half-shaft/differential being the main problem. To be honest, until recently when I followed up on a suggestion about shaft angles, missing bump stops (thank you BigT) etc, and did a lot more research, nobody has been able to figure out the breaking half-shaft issue was stemming entirely from the Rough Country Kit’s front differential drop kit not being fully removed and things restored to OEM in 2013.
The Certainly not me, initially. When I bought it, I didn’t know the differences between 1500, 2500, and 3500 trucks were not in physical size, rather, capability etc.. Hell, I bought the truck to ‘learn about diesels’ and got the K1500 because I ‘didn’t want a big truck.’ Too funny. Anyway, to continue the rehash of the ‘nobody can figure it out’ list who have had eyes and hands on the front end and didn’t notice or mention the differential being lowered…
Not the various alignment shops and suspension “specialists” between 2007 and 2010 who couldn’t get it to stop pulling right. Then one here in 2010, “shade tree” mechanics pointed out my alignment challenges to date stemmed from the right front having been smacked into something unyielding, slightly bending suspension bracing (the previous owners, construction guys, who’d apparently bashed it out of square. They got things to where it would could be adjusted to not pull.
Not the mechanic shop that first pointed out the broken upper front differential mount 12 years ago after the first break.
Not the Transmission shop that supplied the first replacement differential, which I put in only to discover their supplier sourced me a 4:10 vs. 3:73. The shop made things right and did the re-swap themselves. They never said anything about it being suspended by drop brackets.
Not the body shop that did the frame work I’d requested to ensure everything was still square up front (no surprise, it wasn’t).
So, yeah, been thrashing and trashing on this issue and I appreciate the suggestions from the group. It ain’t easy when you have to go off written descriptions, bad angle pictures etc. and can’t get under there to see things.
BigT, you’re the only one besides me to have actually looked under the truck trying to help figure it out.
14 @#$%^& years….

Lift: Yes, but, I had it installed because I certainly didn’t have the knowledge or the expertise to do it myself. 2008 about a year after I bought the truck, If I knew then what I learned couple of years later I’d have either gone with the BDS 6” full suspension lift or left things alone…yeah, BDS.

Engine swap to earlier 6.2: Knowing the past abuse the truck was subjected to before I bought it and having had some overheating issues before upgrading the cooling system, I correctly guessed my motor wasn’t long for the earth. When Ted’s (former member 635) ‘ultimate build’ 6.2 motor failed, I bought the block the warrantied pieces and purchased the rest of what was needed splitting the $$ with 635. When the original guy contracted and paid to rebuild it proved unreliable, Bill Heath jumped in during a time of great stress, and put the engine together. Unfortunately, he missed the fact that the valves were CKO but, he made it right with a set of P400 heads off of his spare engine (separate thread, long story). My original engine, a 6.5 141 series block was torn down and it was discovered that the piston walls were showing wear and the heads had large cracks between the valves from overheating. Dodged a bullet, sorta. Probably would have been better to breakdown with great carnage and bought an Optimizer….

 

[Big T]

But quite but, in true family tradition, my oldest granddaughter was miffed at me when I took away the brake cleaner she was using to remove dirt and such from the pumpkin.


Ok, I’m killing time before going up to SLC for an appointment at the VA…Long story recap follows.

Issues: Other than wear and tear. I’ve had two big issues that have taken a long time to sort out. Biggest one, the bad valves not caught during the rebuild and the topic of this thread…the suspension with the half-shaft/differential being the main problem. To be honest, until recently when I followed up on a suggestion about shaft angles, missing bump stops (thank you BigT) etc, and did a lot more research, nobody has been able to figure out the breaking half-shaft issue was stemming entirely from the Rough Country Kit’s front differential drop kit not being fully removed and things restored to OEM in 2013.
The Certainly not me, initially. When I bought it, I didn’t know the differences between 1500, 2500, and 3500 trucks were not in physical size, rather, capability etc.. Hell, I bought the truck to ‘learn about diesels’ and got the K1500 because I ‘didn’t want a big truck.’ Too funny. Anyway, to continue the rehash of the ‘nobody can figure it out’ list who have had eyes and hands on the front end and didn’t notice or mention the differential being lowered…
Not the various alignment shops and suspension “specialists” between 2007 and 2010 who couldn’t get it to stop pulling right. Then one here in 2010, “shade tree” mechanics pointed out my alignment challenges to date stemmed from the right front having been smacked into something unyielding, slightly bending suspension bracing (the previous owners, construction guys, who’d apparently bashed it out of square. They got things to where it would could be adjusted to not pull.
Not the mechanic shop that first pointed out the broken upper front differential mount 12 years ago after the first break.
Not the Transmission shop that supplied the first replacement differential, which I put in only to discover their supplier sourced me a 4:10 vs. 3:73. The shop made things right and did the re-swap themselves. They never said anything about it being suspended by drop brackets.
Not the body shop that did the frame work I’d requested to ensure everything was still square up front (no surprise, it wasn’t).
So, yeah, been thrashing and trashing on this issue and I appreciate the suggestions from the group. It ain’t easy when you have to go off written descriptions, bad angle pictures etc. and can’t get under there to see things.
BigT, you’re the only one besides me to have actually looked under the truck trying to help figure it out.
14 @#$%^& years….

Lift: Yes, but, I had it installed because I certainly didn’t have the knowledge or the expertise to do it myself. 2008 about a year after I bought the truck, If I knew then what I learned couple of years later I’d have either gone with the BDS 6” full suspension lift or left things alone…yeah, BDS.

Engine swap to earlier 6.2: Knowing the past abuse the truck was subjected to before I bought it and having had some overheating issues before upgrading the cooling system, I correctly guessed my motor wasn’t long for the earth. When Ted’s (former member 635) ‘ultimate build’ 6.2 motor failed, I bought the block the warrantied pieces and purchased the rest of what was needed splitting the $$ with 635. When the original guy contracted and paid to rebuild it proved unreliable, Bill Heath jumped in during a time of great stress, and put the engine together. Unfortunately, he missed the fact that the valves were CKO but, he made it right with a set of P400 heads off of his spare engine (separate thread, long story). My original engine, a 6.5 141 series block was torn down and it was discovered that the piston walls were showing wear and the heads had large cracks between the valves from overheating. Dodged a bullet, sorta. Probably would have been better to breakdown with great carnage and bought an Optimizer….

I never fear crawling under these trucks and inspecting. It’s how you learn and ultimately know your rig.