CV Axle Seperation

[Paveltolz]

Last week I had a CV axle pull out of the inner sleeve/hub. I had gone over a speed bump/ramp apparently too fast and the driver's side pulled out and wedged behind the inner sleeve. Needle bearings, etc. spread out for a while. Thanks to SS Force, we were able to get me on the road in no time but that was weird.

I've replaced the front differential as a complete unit along with the steering gear prior to November. Since then I've driven in 4 wheel drive many times with sharp (as possible) turns in city streets/parking lots. Driven the Pony Express for 60+ miles as well as 100+ miles of the Trans-continental RR bed with an additional 40 miles of spine rattling washboard dirt road. I've crawled around other dirt roads. I inadvertently aired the truck once earlier last fall too (oops). All with no issues.

Now the real mystery. Friday morning, coming out of 4 Wheel drive, 40 feet later I make a sharp right hand turn in a parking lot at 5mph and the new driver's side CV axle separated with the shaft coming out of the inner hub...again. :???:

No time to fix it, I have the truck schlepped home by AAA. Most humiliating but I had to be out of town so I've parked it until this coming weekend.

My front end lift is 6 years old, new bushing last winter. It's an El Ranchero or something another 3" tortion key lift with extended upper A arms. The lift has been turned down to preserve tie rods and, I thought, CV Half Shafts....:skep:

Any ideas cause I have to use this truck for some of my job stuff and, therefore, have to be able to trust it. If I can't make a turn in a parking lot without it busting up...

 

[bison]

I would think with the lift the splined sleeve and the sliding shaft is just about on the end of its stroke at the best of times,..something has to give if it has to extend any further.
Maybe put a 1/2" or so spacer between the hub flange and the shaft flange.

 

[ak diesel driver]

or maybe a limiting strap to limit travel

 

[Paveltolz]

Thanks guys. I picked up a Tuff Country marketed spacer kit with four ea. 1/4" spacers. I'm just surprised that 'lift' issues are manifesting now after 6 years and after being lowered at that. I mean, weighted, the CVs are nearly horizontal. Puzzling.

 

[Will L.]

The new alignment just changed the geometry a bit, combined with the wear on the splines giving a little more movement could be it.

Iirc there is a correct way to measure the thickness of the spacer you need. Something about unbolting the axle, putting the spline all the way in then retract 1/8" and measure... Cant remember the details.

Rancho lift btw. The El Ranchero i think is a Chevy/Ford hybrid El Camino/Ranchero.

 

[Paveltolz]

Yeah, maybe its a RoughCountry vs. Tuff Country. It's been a long time since I have seen the paperwork on it.

I'll try that formula out. IIRC, there wasn't a lot of room to get the new CV half shaft in there against the Diff but, I'll definitely take a look. I note that on the O'Reilly page, there are two lengths for my truck, driver's side...21" and 21 1/16" Doubtful that's making much of a difference though.

 

[Burning oil]

Your saying the axle came out of the diff?

IIRC 93 is a bolt on shaft.

Is this most recent shaft the first replacment on the truck? Is it possible another application uses a shorter splined section? Say like a gasser 1/2 ton and you need diesel stuff?

 

[bison]

Thanks guys. I picked up a Tuff Country marketed spacer kit with four ea. 1/4" spacers. I'm just surprised that 'lift' issues are manifesting now after 6 years and after being lowered at that. I mean, weighted, the CVs are nearly horizontal. Puzzling.

Sometimes a 1/16" to short or to long at the end of the stroke is enough, steel ain't exactly like a bungie cord

 

[Paveltolz]

Thanks Bison, I'll specify the 'longer' unit just to be sure. Man this is weird.

Leroy, Not my first rodeo with these things either. I've replaced them in in pairs in 2008, 2010, 2013 and now I'm on my second go around with the driver's side in 2014?

The 2013 unit that failed a couple of weeks ago after several months of issue free use:


The 2014 unit that lasted a week.

 

[NVW]

Any chance the hub bearings are going? Just thinking the splined shaft may have moved out

 

[Paveltolz]

I hope they aren't going out. Along with the differential and CV Halfshaft replacements done last fall, both hubs were replaced last September.

 

[Burning oil]

Damn thats ugly. Same side shaft each time?

 

[bison]

I never had one of these joints fail on me not even when a Semi ripped my driverside wheel,hub and A frames off along with the fender and entire front end.
It did rip the front diff from its moorings and popped the hub out of the pumpkin,..but the CV joint was still in one piece and so was I:hihi:

 

[Paveltolz]

I'm wondering if there isn't still an issue with the front differential replacement last OCT?
It wouldn't explain the 1st failure as I was in 2Hi and in a straight line but...

Like I said for the second one, I was just coming out of 4Hi when the second one failed and it may not have disengaged in the short term before I started the turn.

I know you aren't supposed to pull tight turns in 4X4 as the front tends to bind up and all .

If it hadn't disengaged from 4Hi to 2Hi, could the wheel trying turn at one speed and diff at another in that tight of a turn on pavement have caused the axle to leverage itself out at the hub?

I have a couple of CV Axle cores from Big-T (who is referring to me as the WarWagon of CV Joints these days) that I just might try out before going new to see if that's a point of issue.

 

[Big T]

Paul, those axles are from a K2500 and you have a 1500. The inner joint hub on your broken hub looks different.

For the record, I've done plenty of tight turns in 4wd on tight pavement and have never broken an axle.

I did not know your truck was lifted. Anytime you "separate" a CV axle like you have, I would think the travel has surpassed the design length. If you were at the end of it's design length and in 4wd on dry pavement with a screwed up differential, that could be enough to push it over the edge.

When I opened the box for the last Suretech CV axle, inside was a letter stating that they see many failure in the inside joint on trucks that were over lifted. Suggested that the solution was to also left the differential. I just scratched my head as I know nothing about this left stuff.

Not sure that you and WarWagon putting heads together on this is a good thing.

 

[Will L.]

If your front diff is locking in posi drive that could do it in the turn. Is the tire chirping when this happens? Going slow in the turn you would also get a little "rocking chair" motion if that's the case.

 

[Burning oil]

I've seen diff lowering kits

 

[Paveltolz]

Paul, those axles are from a K2500 and you have a 1500. The inner joint hub on your broken hub looks different.
For the record, I've done plenty of tight turns in 4wd on tight pavement and have never broken an axle.
I did not know your truck was lifted. Anytime you "separate" a CV axle like you have, I would think the travel has surpassed the design length. If you were at the end of it's design length and in 4wd on dry pavement with a screwed up differential, that could be enough to push it over the edge.
When I opened the box for the last Suretech CV axle, inside was a letter stating that they see many failure in the inside joint on trucks that were over lifted. Suggested that the solution was to also left the differential. I just scratched my head as I know nothing about this left stuff.
Not sure that you and WarWagon putting heads together on this is a good thing.

Well, the idea of using the old ones as a means of sorting out the issue WAS a good idea until you pointed out the 2500 part...oh well. At least I don't have to give up my garage dumb-bells.
Up to now, I've done a lot of tight 4x4 turns on pavement without issues...up to now..with the lift dialed all the way up...but, I've had the lift turned down for many moons and the CV shafts are practically level when the truck is off the jackstands. You guys should see SSForce's half shafts; pretty close to 45* and no issues.
That new CV half-shaft looked and felt different as to heft. Maybe this was a good thing. dumping like that in the parking lot.
Yeah, when you said I was turning into the WarWagon of front ends I knew it was like Jesus calling the followers "Sheep"...it was no great compliment. Sorry for the joke at your expense WarWagon, you've got rep for being pretty tough on equipment.

If your front diff is locking in posi drive that could do it in the turn. Is the tire chirping when this happens? Going slow in the turn you would also get a little "rocking chair" motion if that's the case.

Thanks Will. The tires weren't chirping (that was the rear tires when the 4:11 front was inadvertently installed) but I could feel things binding up. As I replied to Big-T, the heft of the new unit seemed off...lighter and I've yet to give it a good inspection. I'm betting I find evidence of the unit being pried apart from the slow-twisting torque.

Ordering the Suretechs for both sides and measuring for the spacers too. With luck, the shipping and handling won't trash them during transit. The one thing I hate about RockAuto, their suppliers don't pack those things for squat.

 

[Big T]

Paul, we've been happy with the Suretechs......so far. A1 Cardone remans, not so much. Their boots lasted 2+ years. How can that be when the OEM boots were still good and intact after 11 years and 160K miles? You almost have to intentionally try to produce a product which is that bad.

Again, I have no experience with lift arrangements.

Leroy is correct it was suggested to do a differential drop.

Good luck on this. We need you in that truck.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I'd suspect that turning the lift down increased the overall travel amount. It can still travel as far as if it was turned up and start from a lower point and then it would be more like a slide hammer at the end of the travel.