DIY BD1 Programming - Burn your own chips!

[THEFERMANATOR]

I'm a neutral party, but since this has been turned into an ATT vs ___ thread also...your logic fails as the ____ side is not selling anything. They claim a tune is not needed to get benefits, and advocate buying the _____ from random sellers on fleabay.

If they do have an agenda it's personal not commercial.

At first glance one would think they have no agenda, but it gets mirky when everytime something positive is said about the ATT they are run out, or if somebody asks for more actual tests it gets ignored or defferred to the videos he did. And videos can be made to look good when in reality it isn't that impressive. But this is NOT an ATT VS the CKO thread, it is about OBD1 DIY tuning. He is stating though that tuning has proven to overcome what "others" have stated as downfalls of an inferior turbo when in reality it is tuning not complimenting the combo. Tuning is everything to do with how a turbo and truck performs in general, and I have said that from the get go. And they do go hand in hand with each other. The ATT and the CKO(from what I have heard) will both work with stock tuning, but each CAN do better with the proper tuning for each combo.

 

[CtChevy427]

I'm a neutral party, but since this has been turned into an ATT vs ___ thread also...your logic fails as the ____ side is not selling anything. They claim a tune is not needed to get benefits, and advocate buying the _____ from random sellers on fleabay.

If they do have an agenda it's personal not commercial.

sathackr, this is not Diesel Place. We DO NOT edit out or have the word filter remove turbo manufacturers names. Feel free to fill in the blanks.......:thumbsup:

 

[sathackr]

Tuning is a huge part of it...even more so with these IDI engines I think.

I may solicit some assistance soon, I'd like to get set up emulating like Mr. Shady. Nothing can beat making changes on the fly and immediately observing the differences.

 

[sathackr]

sathackr, this is not Diesel Place. We DO NOT edit out or have the word filter remove turbo manufacturers names. Feel free to fill in the blanks.......

I wasn't self censoring...I agree the word filter is dumb...I almost wonder if they did it just to be funny? It was more a fill-in-the blank as the war threads have been vs several different models, both cko and genuine holset. _____ = fill in the blank. I'll leave it at that I don't want to derail this thread anymore.

 

[1999gmc]

sathackr, this is not Diesel Place. We DO NOT edit out or have the word filter remove turbo manufacturers names. Feel free to fill in the blanks.......:thumbsup:

It reminds me of a ricer website turned diesel. Everytime I posted something positive for the ATT it was because I have 4.10 gears. Then they were hung up on boost numbers. "can't get more than 18PSI out of the ATT". I could get almost 20 out of my GM 8 but it wasn't doing anything. Then when I did a post and ATT was three asterisks, I didn't know if I was back in kindergarten or some ricer forum. Anyways, I would love to get rid of some of the haze my Heath tune has with mine.

 

[JiFaire]

Yep - it was a ricer forum

 

[oldblacksmoker]

And I for one am not under the impression that this is a turbo comparison thread. Reading the thread where fermanator gets flamed for talking about tuning gives me the impression that the guys making money for selling tunes are really mad that the best tune about to be available is free. Fact is, if Slim can offer free tunes or even point people to the same, his product does become that much better. Previously, a two dollar chip was selling for 400 dollars and a new turbo and development of complimentary hardware were selling for about the same. Figure the cost to stock chips vs turbos. The profit margins are way out of wack, and these guys have proved it.

 

[oldblacksmoker]

Speaking of turbos, I think the simple answer from Slim to all the haters is to develop a downpipe conversion and sell it cheap. Then develop the best tune for it as well. Downpipes would be a much cheaper investment than turbos to stockpile, and more affordable for guys who are getting a used turbo for uber-cheap. With Slim's experience and sales reputation, he's most suited to fill the void there.

 

[oldblacksmoker]

I'm not trying to derail into a turbo arguing thread, I don't have a dog in the hunt, and I have long been of the impression that software that is almost twenty years old shouldn't cost $400 bucks. Now that it is happening the programmers are beating on Slim because the gravy train is ended. Keep programming, keep sharing, and your product proves itself.

 

[CtChevy427]

I'm not trying to derail into a turbo arguing thread, I don't have a dog in the hunt, and I have long been of the impression that software that is almost twenty years old shouldn't cost $400 bucks. Now that it is happening the programmers are beating on Slim because the gravy train is ended. Keep programming, keep sharing, and your product proves itself.

I would fully agree with your thinking.......:thumbsup:

 

[Pepperidge]

I think what gets them more irratated than the gravy train ending, is the fact that it shows that the other tunes available are inferior or were purposely written that way to discredit the att...its one or the other, no bones about it...

 

[Husker6.5]

All eyes and ears and following the post for OBD-II. Still VERY interested in MPG gains, especially highway cruising. Looking just at your boost and EGT numbers at cruise RPM's, one can infer that the engine is running VERY efficiently with near 100% fuel burn which should equate to very impressive MPG numbers. I know with a 4.10 diff your RPM's will be higher at highway cruise and that will pull down the Hwy MPG numbers unless you slow down to 55-60 to put the RPM's back into the sweet spot, but for us with 3.73 or 3.42 diff's, 70-75 cruise MPG's should be outstanding. Can't wait for some numbers, Slim!

 

[JiFaire]

The part I like is that the same people who flamed the idea of a Turbomaster (because it reduced fuel mileage, because vacuum control was better, because... ) are the ones promoting a wastegated turbo with a spring-operated wastegate.

Pot - Kettle - Black

 

[oldblacksmoker]

And now comes the danger of doing the same thing. From my perspective, these forums aren't supposed to be dominated by any crowd or isolate anyone. I admit I was aggravated to see Fermanator get flamed on the other place, because he really is helping everyone (who isn't in it for money) for nothing. I'm scared he'll get mad and kick all of us to the curb before he develops a kickin tune for the rest of us. I think that is the idea. Beat up anyone who challenges a niche and drive em out. I don't think the right response is to be vitriolic toward the holsett crowd. They've got a good product, and I wan't to see Slim and Fermanator tune it as well. Please?

The part I like is that the same people who flamed the idea of a Turbomaster (because it reduced fuel mileage, because vacuum control was better, because... ) are the ones promoting a wastegated turbo with a spring-operated wastegate.

Pot - Kettle - Black

 

[NVW]

What, exactly are you trying to say Jim?

Interesting post count, too.

The part I like is that the same people who flamed the idea of a Turbomaster (because it reduced fuel mileage, because vacuum control was better, because... ) are the ones promoting a wastegated turbo with a spring-operated wastegate.

Pot - Kettle - Black

 

[oldblacksmoker]

It really has been awhile since this thread has had anything about tuning. That's why I'm here. I'd like to learn and be helped.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

And now comes the danger of doing the same thing. From my perspective, these forums aren't supposed to be dominated by any crowd or isolate anyone. I admit I was aggravated to see Fermanator get flamed on the other place, because he really is helping everyone (who isn't in it for money) for nothing. I'm scared he'll get mad and kick all of us to the curb before he develops a kickin tune for the rest of us. I think that is the idea. Beat up anyone who challenges a niche and drive em out. I don't think the right response is to be vitriolic toward the holsett crowd. They've got a good product, and I wan't to see Slim and Fermanator tune it as well. Please?

I'm too stubborn to quit, as soon as we get a good definition file I will get to work RIGHT AWAY! And I don't hate teh HX turbos, it's just I rmemeber the last go round that peopel started running them and then engines started getting twisted rods and snapped cranks which is what brought about the ATT. I know turbinedoc looked for a long time to find a turbo that would perform yet keep cylinder pressures in check, and his work is what led to slim finding the ATT. As far as tuning goes, I'm looking forward to what can be done with the 6.5 with any combo. Personally I think the HOT ticket will be an ATT with a spool valve built in, but using teh vacuum control to control the spool valve. This set-up would eliminate any of the perceived downsides of teh ATT that some have, as well as accent it's strengths up top. Or an HY35 turbo with dual vacuum canisters on it utilizing a 3 bar map and vacuum control for the boost control on it. There are ALOT of possibilities here that could come out of some AFFORDABLE tuning options, and the best part is it would fit the bill for the thrifty 6.5er who can't see spending $400-500 for a tune on a $2500 truck.

But don't worry about me ignoring you guys, get me the tools and I will build whatever you guys want within the constraints of teh fuel system. HEck we may even be able to get that frankenpump DS4 going that I know somebody has lurking in there garage that should be capable of an HONEST 120MM3 offuel at 3000RPM's, which would be alot better than the last generation of modified DS4 pumps that were pushing 96MM3 of fuel at 3000RPM's.

 

[handcannon]

Personally I think the HOT ticket will be an ATT with a spool valve built in, but using teh vacuum control to control the spool valve. This set-up would eliminate any of the perceived downsides of teh ATT that some have, as well as accent it's strengths up top.

There are ALOT of possibilities here that could come out of some AFFORDABLE tuning options, and the best part is it would fit the bill for the thrifty 6.5er who can't see spending $400-500 for a tune on a $2500 truck.

I do so much wish I lived closer to you guys. I wish I had more knowledge about all this, but I'm too new to all this and I don't. I've been reading all the threads about this that I can. I don't always understand everything, but maybe eventually something I read will make things click for me.

What you guys are doing really raises hopes for me. I'm living on SS disability, which isn't much different than being in poverty, and want my truck to get better MPG than currently, and still be able to tow real good and not send the EGTs through the roof.

I just recently learned about the spool valve and immediately thought of the ATT, wondering if it would be of benefit. If you get a chance to try a spool valve with the ATT I'm all ears to hear how it does, especially if Slim's tune works out as good as it sounds.

Just a couple months ago I found a Holset HX35W from an 01 Cummins, that I could afford, and installed, using Raceday's downpipe adapter. I'm still on a stock tune and so far the motor seems to run just a bit better, but I could be just psyching myself out. The EGT's are a bit higher than with the stock GM4, which disappoints me. (this is on the 94 in my sig line)

The bottom line is, keep up the testing. I'm living vicariously through you guys and maybe someday I will be able to afford something you that guys come up with from all this testing.

Don

 

[Turbine Doc]

HC I also wished some of us could be closer & collaborate 1 on 1 easier trying different stuff.

A lot of crap spurned elsewhere on inability of ATT to run on stock tune, it can and will just not as good as it does with a tune matched to the turbo, as you also are seeing with the HX turbo it also benefits from a tune tailored to it's potential/operating envelope otherwise why even discuss tuning at all regardless which turbo one chooses to go with.

I'm glad at least on location on the web that allows discussion about whatever turbo one wants to play with.

 

[WarWagon]

And I for one am not under the impression that this is a turbo comparison thread. Reading the thread where fermanator gets flamed for talking about tuning gives me the impression that the guys making money for selling tunes are really mad that the best tune about to be available is free. Fact is, if Slim can offer free tunes or even point people to the same, his product does become that much better. Previously, a two dollar chip was selling for 400 dollars and a new turbo and development of complimentary hardware were selling for about the same. Figure the cost to stock chips vs turbos. The profit margins are way out of wack, and these guys have proved it.

I have a box of $2.00 floppy disks from Radio Shack. They were on the shelf next to the $500.00 Word program. Problem is the floppy disks are blank! We have to buy a program or turn to GPL like Linux, Open Office, etc to put anything on the floppy disks. So you are really comparing a paid development team vs. GPL freeware. The debate of how closed minded the paid development teams is a good one. The OBDII stuff is just a flash without any $2.00 'parts'.

As old as these trucks are a GPL tune is a good thing as there isn't much profit in developing a new tune for them.

Tune fit for a specific turbo is a must. Same "tune" settings on a DB2 pump with a GM3 turbo set to 14 PSI can push the EGT's sky high with fuel left on the table. Bottoming out the fuel screw has a hard time going over 1200 degrees with an ATT. Different useable boost RPM of the turbo's requires different max fuel esp in lower RPM's that the DB2 is not equipped to deal with. There is no aneroid to limit fuel on a 6.5 DB2. The throttle is actually an RPM request and the DB2 dumps full fuel till it gets an RPM regardless of turbo boost or the ability to burn that much fuel. Thus electronic DS4's can be told to compensate for available boost a lot easier than DB2's and you need to make adjustments for each turbo for best results.

I did find a aneroid setup for Ford IDI DB2's and it may work on a 6.5.

For reference only as these do not yet fit a 6.5.
http://www.gohypermax.com/ProductDisplay.aspx?ID=d9ee0536-6204-46a6-8455-a3a12867ecce

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?47819-Hypermax-Smoke-Puffer-Limiter

Even with all the development work in tunes we do get off easy for emissions tests. Even so a switchable tune makes emissions tests a lot easier to pass esp vs DB2's where you have to adjust screws all the time... Even stock vehicles can have trouble like mine with white smoke after the advance piston locked up on it.