WMO & EGT's

[cub124]

Hey guys haven't been on here in awhile but I'm finally running 90%+ waste motor oil. I have noticed my egts have been higher (obviously) but lately I can barley go down the bypass without hitting 1100*F in 5th gear (nv4500) with 3.73's. I live in PA so there is some grades from work and back but nothing terrible.
Long story short here is all the details:
oil sits and 10% drained off then centrifuged for 1hr per 5 gal
filtered to 6 micron after centrifuge
dumped in truck tank sometimes cut with a few gallons of diesel fuel
truck has 6.5L lift pump pushes through a 12 then 2 micron then to the pump
injectors pop at about 2,400 psi
lift pump puts out 3 psi at idle 0 psi cruising

hx40 waste gate is wired shut tight and a spring is used to keep tension on it in the closed position (built 15psi in 4th gear on my way home egts ~900*F)

I'm not sure if the IP is starving causing bad atomization which is causing high egts, if I have a dripping injector or if my injectors are just dirty.
EGTs at idle are normal about 400*F
Hopefully warwagon or someone with lots of WMO experience can give me some advice. I'll try running just #2 diesel tomorrow to see if it helps.
injectors are less than a year old and have less than 10k on them
trucks power seems normal maybe a little low in 5th

 

[6.2 turbo]

WMO retards ignition timing. I ran lots of WMO ,but it eventually clogs the injector tip,and precup. I also seized lots of injector pumps. Some people seem to have better luck,but eventually it will cause problems.

 

[tanman_2006]

You need a better lift pump for one thing. The hx 40 should spin higher than that when wired shut. Like 6.2 Turbo said, you might fudge the timing between optimum diesel and WMO settings

 

[cub124]

You need a better lift pump for one thing. The hx 40 should spin higher than that when wired shut. Like 6.2 Turbo said, you might fudge the timing between optimum diesel and WMO settings

Thats what I thought about the 40 but its been like that since I put it on. I was thinking maybe the WG isn't sealing very well but even then it should spool up quick if it seeps some air.
Makes sense timing would be retarded! I'll keep that in mind.
as far as LP goes I've been shopping but just cant decide. I like carters but the one my friend just got caused problems so now I'm not sure.

 

[tanman_2006]

I'm sure you've been told this many times but a walbro frb 5 is TOUGH

 

[cub124]

I just found a used one, what do they go for new again?
45 gph and 8-11 psi; do you regulate it so timing doesn't get thrown in the pump?
Also are new filter screens easy to come by?

 

[WarWagon]

You want the Walbro frb 5 pump going for ~$150.00. It doesn't affect timing in it's pressure range.

Why are you filtering so much on the truck? Filter the fuel BEFORE going into the tank. This will reduce restriction to the IP. 0 PSI can be a full vacuum from restrictive filters or plugged tank sock. You should test with a vacuum gauge to make sure you do not have less than 0 PSI...

You can tell a diesel that is burning oil from worn rings or valve guides by the cherry red glow of the turbo. Oil burns much slower than diesel. I would run a little more diesel to help light it off and advance the timing some to help with the slow burning WMO. Higher diesel concentration will also help keep the injectors from fouling up. Be prepared to replace the IP and injectors early. Alt fuels tend to do this to me and others. Check a glow plug before the timing change. Check it again after 1000 miles. If it is eroding your timing is too far advanced.

WMO has hard carbon in it and other abrasive things. These all cause wear on injectors and in the IP. So make sure you are saving enough to cover a rebuilt IP and injector set.

I wouldn't worry about high EGT's. It is a tuning thing, but, won't hurt anything. I have tried and 1550 EGT sustained didn't hurt anything.

 

[cub124]

10-4
I'll probably get this used FRB-5 and hopefully get rid of the 0 psi issue.
I figured 2 filters on the truck shouldn't be an issue since many guys run two cat filters.
As far as saving for IP and injectors thats not a problem. I have two extra IP's and I wouldn't blame the current IP for going out anytime soon as the truck has 185k on the same pump. Hopefully a new LP will help with spool up also. If the pressure gauge reads 0 under a small load its a safe bet that there is some kinda vacuum.
I'll start to cut it with more diesel what ratio do you recommend? Any thoughts on cutting with kerosine?

 

[WarWagon]

Kerosine is fine. Also low RPM helps with slow burn.

Check the advance on the pump by pushing the retard lever in at idle and seeing if the the engine stumbles. Some old pumps the advance locks up and causes all kinds of issues.

The low boost is from fuel starvation IMO.

 

[cub124]

sounds good. Makes sense with the low rpms helping slow burn. Idk why I didn't think about timing with oil. I knew it burns slower but I just didn't think about it in timing sense.

 

[cub124]

Well F%** look at these glow plugs


Had the pump advanced awhile ago for about 7,000 miles then retarded it for spool up "help". Then 7/18/13 I advanced it again since I'm burning more oil. Since the 18th I probably put 250 miles on it.
Didn't look at the plugs before advancing it but have been meaning to, it just so happened I had cold start issues :rolleyes5:
Engine doesn't die when advance lever is pushed in, it does sound way smoother (less clack)
pump marks a dimes width to drivers side.

 

[WarWagon]

What brand and part number glow plugs were they? You have some Duraterms in now or?

:hand: You know you got to get the other 2 out not pictured.

 

[cub124]

Those are Duraterms!! I spent some good money on them two years ago. I only had 6 spares at home and the part store was closed ha I'll get the other two today. Just putting autolites/crap in it for now till I get the problem worked out.

I see your 93 has gapless rings are they custom made rings?

 

[WarWagon]

This may be too much timing at one point. Possible the oil fuel is doing this - but a guess. How do the plugs cycle after the engine is warmed up? What are you using for a controller?

Totalseal makes 6.2 and 6.5 gapless rings (2nd ring only is gapless due to the soot the 1st ring deals with.) They are made to order. I found the lowest price online and made jegs match it. I have a thread somewhere - basically no blowby and the oil is clean enough to see the dipstick marks through at at 3K miles on the oil. Even now that the engine has over 10K since install.

I would get the autoswell out of there ASAP. At least the duraterms were easy to remove.

 

[cub124]

Manual controller when its at 150* or more no glow plugs are used. Ten seconds or less on start up unless its winter they get cycled twice.

I might have to look into those rings. If my GP's look like that I wonder about my pistons :nonod:

 

[Will L.]

Pistons probably not as bad as you think. The gp's get it bad because they are in the precup. Surround by all that super hot inconel when the injector sprays the fuel on them it sticks to it. The gp's used to do better with it when we had more sulfer in the fuel to help keep them clean by a char layer that would coat them while hot. Wmo, wvo, any "dirtyier" fuel will add to the problem - greatly amplified by timing. Slip a boroscope down the hole if you have one when you change the last two.

 

[WarWagon]

Get the glow plugs hotter before start could burn that stuff off. 10 seconds is not enough.

 

[JayTheCPA]

Did we get the fuel delivery question answered, or not going that route? Maybe I am mixing issues here, but my high compression gasser experience is that this looks like a condition of too lean on the fuel given the low fuel psi and high EGT's across the power band; more fuel (removing what looks like a restriction) should help.

And what about the clack as mentioned earlier in the thread; is this common across the power band while warming and goes away when warm? From my earlier experiences with diesel, depending on the type of clack (aka 'nailing') indicates detonation from not getting a good enough spray from the injector. Presuming the clack is nailing, with what seems like a fuel starvation issue (to me anyway), I'd go after the fuel delivery first and if it is still nailing after that, go after injection.

 

[cub124]

Well I got the FRB5 on yesterday along with 2 new GP's and retarded timing to marks aligned. Topped off the tank and had some other stuff to do. So I parked it left for work saw 18+ volts on my voltmeter so I pull over & shut it off to take a look. Alt wasn't too hot or anything obvious jump it to start it and nothing. Turns out a burnt a fuse-able kink. Won't have a new alt till monday so test driving wont be happening till then!

 

[cub124]

Dusting the cob webs off this one,
Ran about 2500 miles on 75% WMO
Checked the GP's at 1200 miles after replacing and they looked good!
Today I just put 4 new Bosch GPs in and all 4 old ones were shot (tips burnt off again).
The engine is probably due for rings as the blow by pushes the dip stick tube out along with a stream of oil unless I zip tie it down.
My theory is with the worn rigs the compression has gone down with the same amount of fuel. Causing higher EGT's burning up my GP tips.
What do you think? Time to back the fuel off as I'm building my replacement engine?