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Why is it so hard to find an honest dealership

vegtech

WVO Enthusiast
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Tilton, NH
Thread starter #1
I took my new to me 11 2500HD to the stealership because it's using coolant and it has the infamous oil pump whine. Now I ALWAYS do my own work. The thought of someone else wrenching on my stuff makes me loose sleep but it's a major cost if it's head gaskets and it's still under warranty so....I guess I'll loose some sleep and save some money.

It all started with a low coolant light coming on in the morning then going out after the temps come up. Then after a few days of that it would come on and stay on. So I would pop the hood and add about half a gallon. I put my cooling system pressure tester on it and it will loose about 5psi over a 20 minute time span, showing no external leak. I take it to the dealer and tell them the story and they do the same test and have the same results. They call and tell me that it is losing coolant but for them to find out if it is a head gasket, they need to pull the glow plugs, pressurise the cooling system then turn it over to see if coolant sprays from the holes. "BUT.... if it doesn't spray out the holes the there will be a charge for the work" I said "what!? Your telling me that the coolant is going somewhere, and your going to charge me to find out where but the repair is covered under warranty?"

Then we talk about the oil pump whine PIP 4898. He says that the noise I am hearing is not that of the oil pump. I told him the noise comes and goes and varies in intensity and maybe it's not doing it right at the moment but when it does there is no doubt that it IS the oil pump whine. There are a hundred videos on the web of this noise and mine sounds EXACTLY LIKE IT. The day I got the truck I noticed it and googled whining noise lml and found all the people with the same problem, a tsb on the matter and videos of it. I told him to keep trying cause it's there more often then not.

We will see what tomorrow brings after the glow plugs test.

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Mad Maxx

See, what had happened was...
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Staff #2
Dealers have to do everything "by the book". If they don't and something goes wrong, they'll catch more hell than you can imagine for it.

It's a shitty game, but that's how they gotta play it.

Do you have another Dealer you can go to that isn't too far away? If you have a Chevy, try a GMC Dealer, or vice versa.
 

vegtech

WVO Enthusiast
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329
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Location
Tilton, NH
Thread starter #3
Oh I get that they have to do it by the book but what book says the repair is covered but we will need to charge you to diagnose it? The said "your right, it has a leak in the cooling system" so....obviously it's going somewhere it's not supposed to and it's covered so why would I be charged to find it but not to fix it.

I have 5 GM dealerships within 20 minutes of my house.

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Mad Maxx

See, what had happened was...
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The diagnostic fee is just so they get paid for doing something, even if they don't discover the problem.

Should you have to pay for their "guess work" in diagnosing the problem, hell no, but that's how it goes.

Best thing I would suggest is to call GM Customer Support, and tell them what is going on, and see if they can help you out with the Diagnostic Fee, whether by waiving it, or atleast covering most of the cost.
 

schiker

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#6
That is crap about charging for diagnosing it. Warranty should cover the whole problem. Corporate is going to pay them money for warranty work they just want to make more than corporate warranty rate since they have to figure out the warranty claim.

I do my best not to take an intermittent problem to a dealer. Once I made a video of an issue to take to a dealer and still they could not do anything but say they have to repeat the problem in house and would have to charge if they could not repeat the problem. We both knew it was an intermittent issue and probably not going to work out and I was unwilling to pay for shop time to try and repeat the issue and hunt for problem (doubt they could find it). Finally after debating with him on how to get warranty work covered he had me document the visit and them not finding the issue 2 different times. Then he filled out some paperwork for deviation of problem flowchart or something or other and replaced a best guess part to avoid some lemon repair liability?????

So I agree with Will 100% get everything documented each and every visit and all notes on unfound warranty issues etc Then try and video your issues or other verification???? The paperwork trail will hurt them in the end.

My latest disappointment is with Mazda...

Our Mazda 5 is leaking oil between the cooler and filter housing. Several google hits and youtube videos on the issue. The dealer doesn't list the gasket between them. You have to buy an oil cooler ~$550 plus $220 labor not counting shop supplies.

RockAuto has the gaskets $16.99 (leaker) and another $13.99 when you take off filter housing. Probably pay about $250 total (with an oil change) at an independent shop. That is a dang high mark up at the dealer.

I understand they have higher overhead and are stuck with the party line but jeez. I figure maybe they stick it to the customer and put it back on the vendor of the part supplied to engine plant and kind of double dip.
 

THEFERMANATOR

FRANKENBURBAN
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I worked in a dealership many moons back, and what they are telling you is standard procedure. What if your coolant leak ends up being a bad heater core, or something not covered by the 5/100 diesel powertrain warranty. They spend time finding it, ends up being not covered, and unless they have your authorizartion to find it, they cannot charge you for finding something that was a non warranty repair. I understand where your coming from as I've heard it all before from others, but once you've been on the other side of the coin you look at it a bit differently. As to the whine, unless they hear it and verify it, then they can't do anything about it. Something I STRONGLY reccomend you do is to tell them do not start it cold until you're there. Go in and be there when they start it 1st thing in the morning and listen for the noise, and point it out to them when you hear it. And I'm not sure about GM, but when I worked for DODGE, once a complaint was made during the warranty period, if your warranty ran out, you could still get it covered if it was within 90 days of the complaint. The key is to make sure and have ALL complaints of file BEFORE the warranty runs out, then you have some leeway once your warranty runs out, and the problems return.
 

schiker

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#8
Good point Ferm. I did kind of assumed it was all under warranty in which case diagnosing it should be covered.

The dealer should be able to explain that better and not inflame the customer with a poor description of why there will be a charge for diagnosing something in the warranty period.

In my case it was under warranty as we both understood it. It was just an intermittent issue that the dealer could not identify the problem part. They did not know which part was bad to be able to replace it. We were stuck. Seemed pretty clear to me I had a malfunction and they could not fix it. The suspect part I'll assume was the culprit as the problem went away after replacing it. Just was annoying that it took extra trips to fix it.

It could have been a bad connection or other problem that was masked by replacing a part. I would not have been so frustrated if the service writer would have explained his plan for resolving the issue.

I think our point is still valid. Document every bit of an issue. Let your paperwork show you had an issue and the dealer could not identify/verify and fix the problem. Documentation is still the key. Don't let it evolve into a verbal fight after the fact.
 

Will L.

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Boulder City Nv
#9
I've get the name of the mechanic and went back and talk to him real quick-30 seconds like-with the service writer. Give them my cell phone number, I just told payment please don't hesitate to call me. That's near the end of the day when dropping it off. (Find out estimate of when he is going to start your rig) mine was next morning about 8:00.
Guess who showed up the next morning at 7:50 with a McDonald's breakfast for the dude and saying hey I couldn't remember if I gave you my phone number...

Another time I just stopped in with a six pack of Pepsi for the guy, when I saw he was drinking one and had an empty one on his toolbox.

I have no problem tipping a waitress bringing me dinner, why do people have a problem tipping their mechanic. We have a habit of tipping afterwords for a meal, but remember t.i.p.s.= To Insure Proper Service. Is where that started, I have never regretted pre-tip of some kind to a dealership mechanic when warranty anything was in question. An experienced dealer mechanic knows how to find everything under warranty.

Also while you're there let the mechanic know, if there is ANYTHING else you can find that I can get YOU paid to fix, while still under warranty, that's less I will have to do myself later. I've had new radios put in, the transmission rebuilt, new alternator, etc. done when it all could have been let go with that comment being used directly to the mechanic. Service writers it had zero effect.

Don't panic about walking into the back of the shop just think your supposed to and no one knows any different.
 

THEFERMANATOR

FRANKENBURBAN
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The service writer is just a salesman. He doesn't know what is being done, only what he is told by the person working on it. Most writers don't know the 1st thing about working on a car, and couldn't add a quart of oil if there life depended on it. This is done on purpose so as to prevent them from trying to diagnose on the service drive, and instead send it to the back to be diagnosed in accordance with the companies policies and rules. If you worked in a shop enviroment, you would see the flip side of this, and understand. It really is madness in many ways, but its how the system works. When it comes to warranty, unless it is BROKEN( and I mean BROKEN!), they're not supposed to repair it. I remember seeing cars coming in with things OBVIOUSLY broken, but we were not allowed to fix it or even talk about it unless it was something that could save the company money later on. If we saw a car come in with a massive oil leak that could lead to an engine failure in the next 100 miles, we could fix it. Or if we had one come in with a wheel bearing ready to seperate, we could fix it. If a vehicle came in with a ROARING rear end, say nothing. If it comes in belching smoke without a complaint, we see nothing. If a car came in AFTER warranty, but we knew it had a factory extended warranty, you get the idea, we see nothing. If we couldn't make a problem happen on command to be verified by the service manager, well you got the idea. It's just how the system is setup, and will continue to work. Or if we tore into an engine under warranty, and found it sludged up, guess what, we just tore into an engine for free as that claim would get bounced by the service manager for fear of a charge back if the manufacterer requested the failed part back and determined it was from lack of maintence.

So you might want to try and cut the guys in the dealership a little slack, and try and work with them, and realize there job is ANYTHING but easy on there end. I've been on the flip side, and screamed and cussed out because I couldn't verify a problem. Even though I knew what was most likely wrong, I couldn't do it for fear it would come back within 90 days with the same complaint, because if it did, guess what. I just got charged back and LOST pay out of my paycheck and paid for the 1st repair where I tried to make a customer happy and just do a repair to keep them happy. It isn't quite as simple of am atter as many think when dealing with warranty.
 

vegtech

WVO Enthusiast
Messages
329
Likes
7
Location
Tilton, NH
Thread starter #11
A little update. Turns out the coolant leak was coming from the oil cooler. The bolts had loosened up. They found it after pulling all the glow plugs and found it wasn't a head gasket. They charged $580 for that service. As for the oil pump noise, when I went to pick it up it was making the noise so I asked the service manager to come listen. He said "i don't think that's the noise described in the TSB" so I pulled up 3 YouTube clips of the same noise then a couple forum threads of other guys with the same noise. He then said. "well...I have been a service manager for 30 years and have never seen a duramax need an oil pump". I replied " now you have". They ordered the parts and we scheduled it for the two weeks I would be working in Taiwan. I picked up the truck when I got home and it's so much quieter.

Now that my warranty expired on 11/05....I can put in all my go fast gooodies I bought and good bye to the DEF!

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