Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
Just as an FYI I have a remote temp sensor in my factory air box, on a hot day with a fully heat soaked engine I've seen 130F in the air box, and that is with a lid on the box and sucking in via round air filter.
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water mist or intercooler
- Thread starter 6.5coalroller
- Start date
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
When I was running with IC I would run max 30F over ambient, not hawking ATT again, but without the IC until above 10 psi I've yet to see greater than 160F avg IAT, historically even with my GM-8 and the IC I was running IATs for most part were manageable until you break the 10 psi boost threshold on a hot day.
This was why I was telling you early on when asking about your current turbo selection that for the 6.5 it was not the best choice, not saying that it would not work, you now need to add and IC, to fully utilize all the boost that turbo is capable of;
You should seriously consider lowering the CR to 18:1, 6.5s don't like a lot of hi pressure boost, do it often enough with high boost and you wind up posting threads like this http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=14144.
Once your air charge goes above 10 psi even with the ATT the post compression temp slope starts going from a gradual curve to nearly a straight line up. I've been told that for economy that 150 F IAT is ideal what works best for the 6.5.
You can home brew a IC, several vendors out there ebay etc sell kit parts, IMO get the biggest IC you can stuff in there, this mite help some: http://myweb.cableone.net/tbogemirep/
This was why I was telling you early on when asking about your current turbo selection that for the 6.5 it was not the best choice, not saying that it would not work, you now need to add and IC, to fully utilize all the boost that turbo is capable of;
You should seriously consider lowering the CR to 18:1, 6.5s don't like a lot of hi pressure boost, do it often enough with high boost and you wind up posting threads like this http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=14144.
Once your air charge goes above 10 psi even with the ATT the post compression temp slope starts going from a gradual curve to nearly a straight line up. I've been told that for economy that 150 F IAT is ideal what works best for the 6.5.
You can home brew a IC, several vendors out there ebay etc sell kit parts, IMO get the biggest IC you can stuff in there, this mite help some: http://myweb.cableone.net/tbogemirep/
6.5coalroller
New Member
I've wanted to change the compression since I bought the truck. I may end up rebuildin it in the spring. I dont run above 10 psi real often I lyk to take it easy on my rig i'll put an intercooler next on my list but deer season starts tomorrow so my truck will be on the back burner for the next couple months but it's gettin colder anyways the heat of summer is over.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
I've been considering using some thicker headgaskets from Cometic to lower my CR. 216000 on the clock now was thinking of freshing it up and putting the thicker gaskets in then along with headstuds. If I was doing a full build I'd probably do the lower CR pistons.
Goldsburg
Diesel Tinkerer
Yes, but the calculator AND the psychometric charts are a little more involved. Regardless of pre or post-turbo, if you are going to inject too much (by not doing some rough calculations) then I would much rather lunch a turbo ($700) then an engine ($5000).
One other question: How "small" are small nozzles and just how many are there?
The Devil is in the Details, Buddy...
buddy
Active Member
Is this a rhetorical question? I dont understand your point? There are lots of details, anyone has to do research before building anything?
The details of my system have been posted, their no secret.
6.5coalroller
New Member
Ya mines got 190000 on it so I imagine it's got some blow by.
6.5coalroller
New Member
Would an intercooler like this be big enough it is 22x8x3.5 and 2.5" inlet and outlet both the inlet and outlet are on the same end so I could run both down the passenger side off the intake and turbo.
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
This is an opinion mind you, one based from my experiences with my own IC that I ran for 6 years, the reverse flow of that IC could be detrimental to flow, if going IC I would be looking for a IC that went in one end and out the other, the one I used was center in and center out, because my butt is so tuned from many miles driven in the seat, my "azz-o-meter" performance monitor noticed a performance shift when I dropped the IC out of the loop from my set up, no quantitative data other than that.
I think there some is some merit to this hypothesis as the 1st ICs kitted for the 6.5 were a smaller Turbo Technologies kit Bigley @ Diesel Page went with at first, superceded with a kit Kennedy used to carry & I think still available from Spearco/Turbonetics (high end on pricing but only ready to install kit at the time) that I ran with. I don't see it listed there any longer but possibly still available in special request as the install instructions are still posted there http://www.turboneticsinc.com/sites/default/files/2-436_6.5L_ChevyGMC.pdf
At Spearco's site are some charts for correct sizing of IC's http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/82 use those and possibly find out what works best for you, my opinion is to put in as big an IC as you can fit, I had to do some special fab work on mine to make it fit as the K1500's frame, drag link, engine clearance is less than in the 2500 & 3500 trucks.
When discussing a WMI alternative to go with my ATT with Bill, he let me know the main purpose of his WMI isn't the lowering of the IAT, but primarily for addition of the (2) parts hydrogen, (1) part oxygen to the combustion process in a relatively free way he uses plain tap water for his rig and no issues thus far.
The secondary benefit is lowering of the IAT, he uses full time water regardless how far he's going, the variable rate controller in his kit sets the proportional flow of spray vs boost of the engine, IIRC with GM turbo the spray begins with 2 psi boost at min flow setting to full flow @ 8+ psi.
For me with my ATT & you with a Hx turbo you'll need to define the required flow cut in/out and rate of flow if you decide to go with a WMI kit
I think there some is some merit to this hypothesis as the 1st ICs kitted for the 6.5 were a smaller Turbo Technologies kit Bigley @ Diesel Page went with at first, superceded with a kit Kennedy used to carry & I think still available from Spearco/Turbonetics (high end on pricing but only ready to install kit at the time) that I ran with. I don't see it listed there any longer but possibly still available in special request as the install instructions are still posted there http://www.turboneticsinc.com/sites/default/files/2-436_6.5L_ChevyGMC.pdf
At Spearco's site are some charts for correct sizing of IC's http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/82 use those and possibly find out what works best for you, my opinion is to put in as big an IC as you can fit, I had to do some special fab work on mine to make it fit as the K1500's frame, drag link, engine clearance is less than in the 2500 & 3500 trucks.
When discussing a WMI alternative to go with my ATT with Bill, he let me know the main purpose of his WMI isn't the lowering of the IAT, but primarily for addition of the (2) parts hydrogen, (1) part oxygen to the combustion process in a relatively free way he uses plain tap water for his rig and no issues thus far.
The secondary benefit is lowering of the IAT, he uses full time water regardless how far he's going, the variable rate controller in his kit sets the proportional flow of spray vs boost of the engine, IIRC with GM turbo the spray begins with 2 psi boost at min flow setting to full flow @ 8+ psi.
For me with my ATT & you with a Hx turbo you'll need to define the required flow cut in/out and rate of flow if you decide to go with a WMI kit
6.5coalroller
New Member
Is there gonna be issues with buying stuff off ebay compared to a spearco intercooler. They are really expensive.
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
Iv'e not heard any complaint from ebay IC's many look like knockoffs of Spearcos design, I just linked U there for sizing ideas, several members have have made ICs from junkyard sources as well, as you can see from pics of plumbing from Spearco http://myweb.cableone.net/tbogemirep/ they don't always get it rite either in spite of the high $$$ they charge be on look out for stuff like what Spearco sent me in weld quality, or FOD/DOD material as we call it in the turbine world.
6.5coalroller
New Member
Alright i'll put it on my christmas list lol. Jus what every kid wants to unwrap on christmas morning A BRAND NEW INTERCOOLER!!! hahaha
Woody35
Active Member
i would):h
buddy
Active Member
I seen a setup where the builder moved the filter manager, easy enough to do, and reversed the upper plenum of the intake, so it elbowed 90 degrees by firewall towards drivers side, so his IC went in passenger side and out driver side. Otherwise can get the intake like 635 has, maybe its a 6.2 Banks intake? But point is you can do it with what you have.
6.5coalroller
New Member
Ya i've seen that done before to. If I go with that i'll jus do the feed the beast mod at the same time.
Matt Bachand
Depends on the 6.5
Anyone ever toy with the idea of putting the turbo's underneath the truck and plumbing it back to the engine through an intercooler if needed? Similar to the cadillac twin turbo ideas, where they are in the rear, far corners of the vehicle.
6.5coalroller
New Member
That idea would prolly work nicely if you had a car, but in my situation I dont think it would be a good idea to get mud, gravel, salt in the winter and who knows what else thrown at it. If you drove primarily on the street it would be ok but if you drive off road you know somethins gonna happen. Thats y i'm a lil leary bout puttin an intercooler on front i'll have to make a guard for it cuz I could see myself drivin through a corn field and rammin a corn stalk in the thing lol.
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
You been reading over on steak boy's forum?
the IC's I've seen are pretty stout so I doubt a corn stalk or standard off road debris is gonna take it out, during Katrina, I got off in sinkhole and the trucks weight rested on my IC until I was able to get the truck unstuck, I thought the IC was gonna be scrap, it did fine just a lot of packed in mud. That said if going IC route and serious offroading is in the plan, build the skidplate like you would be doing to protect the rest of the low hanging stuff that needs protection, but normal things you might encounter in unimproved road and "field driving" should not be a concern,
Additional consideration for IC vs WMI, ICs need air, slow crawling you won't be getting much air, but you also won't be doing much boosting needing cooling, but WMI adds power when flow would not be present and no impact worries,
6.5coalroller
New Member
Thats interesting lol i jus figured that they were kinda fragile. More lyk a radiator. Well in that case screw the guard lol ppl will see it and ask what that thing is under my truck lol.
SmithvilleD
Active Member
The bar & plate IC cores will be resistant to impact dmg than the tube/fin design. The tube/fin design used extruded tubes, w/ fins in btwn similar to the engine cooling radiators you're familiar with.
Don't know that it's likely corn stalks could punch a hole in a bar/plate IC core, but they will still do dmg bending fins flat. Corn stalks are a bit different than off-roading/rocks, etc., because you've got an entire field of stalks rolled down to about the height (depending on your cornhead) that could do dmg. Small % chance any individual stalk does damage, but there's a whole lot of stalks.
While it doesn't happen that often, it's not unheard of to get corn stalk punctures in ag tires.
When looking at IC sizing charts, keep in mind if the chart provider really had a towing diesel pickup in mind. The flowrate spec is useful because you want an IC that does not cause excess restriction at the highest airflows your 6.5 will see. However IC sizing charts that had primarily turbo charged gassers in mind, are often only thinking of adequate charge air cooling for a limited time (say a 1/4 mile run, or a run up thru the gears).
Your 6.5 towing up a long grade w/ boost at 10+ psi needs more "real-time" IC heat exchange capacity than the typical drag racer or turbocharged gasser street car. Compare the stock IC core size on a 350 hp modern turbo diesel pickup with the stock IC core size on a similar hp turbocharged car & you'll get a sense of the difference in design criteria for these notably different applications.
The intake manifold adaptor (mentioned above) that a number of 6.5'rs have used is from Penisular.
Don't know that it's likely corn stalks could punch a hole in a bar/plate IC core, but they will still do dmg bending fins flat. Corn stalks are a bit different than off-roading/rocks, etc., because you've got an entire field of stalks rolled down to about the height (depending on your cornhead) that could do dmg. Small % chance any individual stalk does damage, but there's a whole lot of stalks.
While it doesn't happen that often, it's not unheard of to get corn stalk punctures in ag tires.
When looking at IC sizing charts, keep in mind if the chart provider really had a towing diesel pickup in mind. The flowrate spec is useful because you want an IC that does not cause excess restriction at the highest airflows your 6.5 will see. However IC sizing charts that had primarily turbo charged gassers in mind, are often only thinking of adequate charge air cooling for a limited time (say a 1/4 mile run, or a run up thru the gears).
Your 6.5 towing up a long grade w/ boost at 10+ psi needs more "real-time" IC heat exchange capacity than the typical drag racer or turbocharged gasser street car. Compare the stock IC core size on a 350 hp modern turbo diesel pickup with the stock IC core size on a similar hp turbocharged car & you'll get a sense of the difference in design criteria for these notably different applications.
The intake manifold adaptor (mentioned above) that a number of 6.5'rs have used is from Penisular.