Thermostat Bypass Blocker?

[bowtiebutler956]

I love all the info here! Thanks Missy, and WarWagon for the very extensive, and detailed posts. So I assume both of you buy the aftermarket 180 T-stats? Where do you get them. I did some searching, and about the only brand I could find in a 180 is MotoRad, (part #332-180, and 7332-180) and it doesn't look like a very high quality t-stat, and looks just like the one SS is selling.

As far as the fan clutch goes, I got a Four Seasons severe duty #36754, as it can still be modified for early engagment. The Hayden clutches have a different design that doesn't permit mods. Here are a couple pics of my new clutch. I was able to move about 1/4in. back into the coil to help it engage earlier. This left just enough of a tang to keep it located properly in the slot. All I have left to do, is silicone it back in.

Matt

The pics are a little out of order.
Pics 1, 2, and 5 are of the clutch right after purchace.
Pic 3 is of the front coil after modification.
Pic 4 is of the coil before modification.

For anyone not familiar with this mod, I didn't cut the coil. You bend it so that you end up adding more to the coiled up section, which helps it to engage sooner.

 

[WarWagon]

I swapped an engine about a year ago for a friend. I could not get the ECU to do a timing set. It refused. Till I realized some nucklehead had put 160 deg stats in it (dual). Dropped in two 195s' and Bobs your uncle. Even with 180s the ECU thinks the engine is never warming up and does not get into the normal operation part of the fuel map. You cant fool the computer. Diddling with stat temps is very old school in these electronic days and nothing good can come from it in any setup close to stock. A holdover from the early days of EPA mandated pollution controls that were crappy.

:idea: So we are dealing with antique very old school then? :hihi: I just don't have computer timing problems on my 1993. Even then the 140 degree mark where the cold advance kicks off is going around the block when you start with a 110 or 121 degree overnight "cold" engine.

Absolutely the newer electronic 6.5 engines are designed to run hotter for offset time set. Under any sort of load even a 160 t-stat will get there.

 

[WarWagon]

At one time I thought about an electric fan clutch, but never got it past the thinking stage very far.

If the thermal clutch will come on at a low enough temp, then the system will work fine.

I want that fan to roar if the temp of the engine reaches 200 F

I am told that the Hayden Severe Duty units are calibrated lower than the factory units that they replace

Anyone using one.

My clutch on Dahooooley is likely the one it left the factory with, and at 188k it's probably used up.

Yes, Hayden Severe Duty units are calibrated lower than the factory units that they replace. Even so I have run both and prefer the Kennedy Diesel mainly because lower turn on temps means the fans is on sooner for AC demand. I did not experience the 'never kicks out' issue some have had with the KD clutch. Been through 2 of the KD's.

Fan clutches loose 200 RPM per year of course I assume that is 15K miles a year. So at 5 years old the fan clutch needs to be replaced. I figure age is more of a factor than miles.

Someone did drop a HUMMER fan clutch setup on their 6.5 pickup or? I forget.

A heat lamp and painting the fan clutch spring area black would help for AC kick on assist. They have lots of trouble securing the wiring for the Electro Viscous fan clutches. Common for it to go through the fan.

 

[WarWagon]

I love all the info here! Thanks Missy, and WarWagon for the very extensive, and detailed posts. So I assume both of you buy the aftermarket 180 T-stats? Where do you get them. I did some searching, and about the only brand I could find in a 180 is MotoRad, (part #332-180, and 7332-180) and it doesn't look like a very high quality t-stat, and looks just like the one SS is selling.

As far as the fan clutch goes, I got a Four Seasons severe duty #36754, as it can still be modified for early engagment. The Hayden clutches have a different design that doesn't permit mods. Here are a couple pics of my new clutch. I was able to move about 1/4in. back into the coil to help it engage earlier. This left just enough of a tang to keep it located properly in the slot. All I have left to do, is silicone it back in.

Matt

The pics are a little out of order.
Pics 1, 2, and 5 are of the clutch right after purchace.
Pic 3 is of the front coil after modification.
Pic 4 is of the coil before modification.

For anyone not familiar with this mod, I didn't cut the coil. You bend it so that you end up adding more to the coiled up section, which helps it to engage sooner.

Make sure you silicone or otherwise glue the spring back in the clutch. The spring end pops straight out otherwise and do weird things.

I think the local parts store has relabeled MotoRad t-stats. Not the best but, I run them. I do get temp swings that the AC-Delco's are said to lessen.

 

[bowtiebutler956]

IIRC, Missy did.

Back to the question on blocking the port . . . Anybody have pictures to make it easier on somebody like myself???

Jay, I will take plenty of pics when I change mine. Probably this weekend.

Make sure you silicone or otherwise glue the spring back in the clutch. The spring end pops straight out otherwise and do weird things.

I think the local parts store has relabeled MotoRad t-stats. Not the best but, I run them. I do get temp swings that the AC-Delco's are said to lessen.

Thanks WarWagon, and I wouldn't dream of installing the clutch without first securing the spring.

Matt

 

[L98TPI]

I don't have to worry about any of that, as my 6.5 is fully mechanical, and has no type of emission equipment.

Matt

You still have the same hardware with the same thermal issues. You are still going to get max mpg with 195s all things tuned right. There has been speculation with some evidence to support it that cold thermostats may contribute to head cracking. Its was discussed on here or maybe it was that 'other' forum a few years back.

BTW those 160s were stainless steel types for marine engines. they are now in the same guys boat engines. Twin 454 Chevys. Upcycle!

 

[L98TPI]

:idea: So we are dealing with antique very old school then? :hihi: I just don't have computer timing problems on my 1993. Even then the 140 degree mark where the cold advance kicks off is going around the block when you start with a 110 or 121 degree overnight "cold" engine.

Absolutely the newer electronic 6.5 engines are designed to run hotter for offset time set. Under any sort of load even a 160 t-stat will get there.

The 160s absolutely did not get to the IIRC 175 deg point to allow timing set. Maybe after a hard run but as soon as you stopped the temp dropped like a rock.

 

[Will L.]

I am trying to load pics of the difference in t-stats but fighting with my computer to find them. Stand by a few and youll be able to see the t stat block off difference....

Will, I was just talking with a customer a few days ago with a Hummer. He was saying he would like to relocate his oil coolers too. Seems to me it could only help. My problem is having it here to do the mock up on. If I do get it for a few days I'll let you know.QUOTE]
I have looked into it, AM General tried a set up but let it go from low lying electrical problems when water fording.

I am replacing the horrible heater core set up with a Frankenstein nightmare on my roof that will double as a secondary radiator to help with my mess.

War Wagon: IDK about the screech- I do get a roar when fan clutch is in. And yes someone did a thread about the hmmwv hydraulic set up on their p/u.

Wasn't Ak Driver looking into electrical fan clutch also--maybe too much heat in the skull again today.

 

[bowtiebutler956]

You still have the same hardware with the same thermal issues. You are still going to get max mpg with 195s all things tuned right. There has been speculation with some evidence to support it that cold thermostats may contribute to head cracking. Its was discussed on here or maybe it was that 'other' forum a few years back.

BTW those 160s were stainless steel types for marine engines. they are now in the same guys boat engines. Twin 454 Chevys. Upcycle!

I agree with you, and as I said in one of my earlier posts, I realize I won't reach peak efficiency with the cooler temps, but thats not my primary concern.
I would have a hard time believing that a cooler temp would contribute to cracking problems. Its been proven that the back two cylinders get cracks in the heads due to poor circulation, which causes excessive heat. This happens regularly on engines that had stock temp t-stats, now there are people saying that cracks happen from running to cool?:???:
I would be curious to see that thread. If you could send the link, I'd appreciate it. If its from the other place, you could PM it to me.

Matt

 

[Will L.]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a...0140712064606488.JPG/ps=50/r=2/rx=550/ry=400/

The 2 on the left have the lower bypass valve pieces. The one on the right does not.
The one on right is the pos I am stuck with at the moment.

sorry having hard time getting actual pic on here. If some one can tell me how I will post it w/out shutterfly link.

 

[bowtiebutler956]

I am trying to load pics of the difference in t-stats but fighting with my computer to find them. Stand by a few and youll be able to see the t stat block off difference....

I am replacing the horrible heater core set up with a Frankenstein nightmare on my roof that will double as a secondary radiator to help with my mess.

I look forward to seeing that setup Will. It may not be pretty, but if it helps to keep the 6.5 happy, thats what counts.:thumbsup:

Matt

 

[bowtiebutler956]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a...0140712064606488.JPG/ps=50/r=2/rx=550/ry=400/

The 2 on the left have the lower bypass valve pieces. The one on the right does not.
The one on right is the pos I am stuck with at the moment.



sorry having hard time getting actual pic on here. If some one can tell me how I will post it w/out shutterfly link.

Will, if you need a 180 high flow without the bypass, you can have mine. It only has about 1600 miles on it. Its the Robert Shaw high flow type.

Matt

 

[Will L.]

Thanks, appreciate the offer. I have ran it and it works about the same as what I'm running now.

I was actually going to try the "Speedway" modified Robert Shaw 180. They are supposed to flow the same, but have a balanced sleeve to help with upper end flow (above 2500 rpm), and since I run the freeway at 2800 rpm It might help. Should be here tomorrow.

Thinking a elcectro controlled ball valve maybe :biggrinjester:

 

[WarWagon]

Will, Click "Go advanced" then under additional options "manage attachments" then add files...
It's a good comparison photo.

Motorad Germany sold in Murry box. The top part in the photo, of course, is what the OP's question is all about. Yes it's upside down. Again not the best choice.

 

[scottm]

So there is a post on the bottom of the tstat that extends down to block the bypass hole? It's always warm on phoenix, so I think I would rather restrict it by going to a smaller hose. A hose barb for a 3/8 ID hose has a passage of about .300", big enough to allow circulation and reduce pressure on the tstat when fully closed. I have been tapping and plugging the bypass hole in smallblock race engines for 30 years with no problems, but I also always drill a 1/16" hole in the tstat flange to purge air and allow some circulation when closed.

 

[Burning oil]

Will.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

I have heard from a few guys that are using the "non water" coolant in their 6.5's to help eliminate the steam pockets in the heads.

The non water coolant will not flash to steam and stays liquid.


Never used it, but the idea sounds like a solid one.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Has anyone here had any experience with Water Wetter.

The theory is to reduce the size of bubbles in the coolant and to keep more coolant in contact with the metal parts.

Any thoughts ????

 

[Will L.]

Water wetter is basically a water soluble oil that lessens surface tension. It works very well.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

That would be a sweet ticket for the 6.5.

Anything that will help break up the tendency towards having steam pockets and other heat related issues.

Better heat transfer to the radiator as well would allow the fan clutch to work better too.

I'M A GONNA TRY IT