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Test drove a new 3.0L Duramax I6 Chevy 1500 w/RST Package

WarWagon

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I watched that before. :jawdrop: Oil pump less critical because you can get to the side of the road under power and it may run warm doing so. Not said engine expended. Valve crash from chain failure means instant engine stoppage scrap metal so camshaft turning is more critical.

The comments for the video covered it well.

I considered this video may have been a prank.
 

FellowTraveler

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Yes sir. Just giving a number.
I understand that Sir. just throwing in the peak torque point so people can try it and see the difference.
There is some good engine builders who also market gas engines built for low RPM torque output. The further the throttle body is from the valves the lower the engine peak torque RPM will be, I suspect this already applies to newer diesels if not then soon.
 

Will L.

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There is 15 of these rigs in a different department than I work for, then another 21n other departments

I was just talking Thursday (yesterday) to who is effectively the service writer for the fleet about these the other day. He was a mech for years but now is desk jockey, and knows his stuff better than most dealership mechanics. I’ve known him for probably 15 years. He was saying how I quit bringing in the little f150 so much- only been in there once for repair in the last year. I laughed and told him that is now a “spare truck” until they hire replacements for my last position and I have been in a different truck for over a year now. That lil ford with only 30,000 miles on still breaks down about every 8,000 miles. Haha.

Anyways I said “looks like you guys are now going with the 3.0 dmax for lil trucks.”
He said: Well, we were. Almost everything will be gas moving foreword and this engine is one of the reasons why. And before you ask Will, it isn’t the oil belt. The coolant system issues on these 3.0 are the huge problems. It isn’t that the truck really gets too hot. There is an advanced cooling control system that sends coolant different places as needed and several temp sensors around to tell it what needs coolant more. He said it is part of why the engine is so fuel efficient. But the system controlling it all has sensor issues and programming issue hiccups.

He said so far of the 3 dozen, 5 of them have been down for over two weeks in dealerships trying to resolve the cooling issues and all of it happens before first 5,000 miles. In fact 3 was before 1,000 miles. Be is convinced, along with the lead tech at the dealership (a guy we both know) that is is either programming or the ecm itself. The hang up is, it doesn’t happen once and down the truck until fixed. It happens on a Monday morning, then in 5 minutes run time goes away. Comes back Thursday, Then Tuesday, etc. and often restarting the engine basically eliminates the issue, but the CEL is still on with code limiting power. So as soon as cleared it is gone and they can’t reproduce it. So it becomes multiple trips to the dealership before it gets resolved.

On the high mileage side of it, He is in contact with a different gas station company than the ones I worked for. They use lil pickups for delivering pay out to gambling winnings. The stores don’t keep the cash on hand because or robbery potential, so you win say $700 in the machine and the clerk calls main office for the cash delivery. They have trucks do the $ delivery as well as other store to store transactions. (The ones I worked for did same thing). So they have a few 3.0 that are over 100,000 already. They said their mechanics figured a work around that isn’t detectable and they get full power regardless of code. Then on the ones that get engine damage- new engine under warranty. But the other issue they see powertrain wise is transmissions having issues around 85,000 mile mark in a few. He said it’s a fairly quick deal, but trans has to come out for it. So what they are doing is when the trans is out- new oil belt.

The thing I don’t get about the belt for the oil pump is- there is two chains right in front of it. So the excuse of noise from a chain and belt is quiet- ?? I get a chain tensioner adding depth. But I can’t imagine they couldn’t have done it better IF LONG TERM MILEAGE was a desire. That leads me to one conclusion- it is designed to have people desire truck replacement by that time as fear.

Now, the rear of engine belt replacement sounds bad, but really isn’t. It is an 8 hour job. No worse than timing belt on any regular car. So $100 an hour means $800 labor plus parts will push it to $1500. So it is gonna impact resale value a little. My son recently bought a used car. He was looking at the BMW m3- same engine in different models from 2011-2016. Everything is really great in that car except 1 problem- timing chain is only good for 80k miles and is over $5,000 replacement. So value of those cars is equal to a brick in the lake. After going back to dealership and couple regular shops I used to sell tools to, and getting the real deal from mechanics I knew from then- my son drives a Toyota now. DIY is a mightmare. So how bad is DIY on the 3.0? We will have to wait and see.

As to the rest of the truck- the ac is much better than older gm. Seems the improvements in the late 2000 years are still in place. But all the regular GM stuff that gives fits is all same in the new lil trucks. Dash cracks, window regulator issues, fuel and air filters plug up crazy fast, slow speed transmission knock and bangs, and brake rotor overheating fuel pump life issues are all common place. But much of that is trade one problem for another. Toyota rotors are junk, transmission bang, too small fuel filters, etc. And the competition that dont have those issue have different ones. Dodge transmission, electrical; Ford transmission, electrical...

So We are NEVER going to see these problems all go away in diesel or gas engines. What we will see and is already the number 2 complaint on average across the board is electrical complaints regardless of power propulsion unit. 20 years from now, that will be 90% of the complaints. I reserving 5% for tire and noise complaints, 1% for error in polls and the last 4%? House fires from diy and hack electricians that don’t get the charging station done right in the garage at home.

@BoostN
Enjoy the new ride. You know to do the research and find a way out if ya hit a lemon, otherwise just run it and relax.
I love the color. I still think a huge brushgaurd or something to hide the bumper/grille/fender interface would help. Honeybadger or trail ready type bumper. But then again a lift and some mudder tires..... haha
 

WarWagon

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I get a chain tensioner adding depth
GM Beancounters would pass out trying to say expensive Scissor Gear.

Just another "excuse" instead of saying "cheap rubber band". Where is the chain tensioner on the 6.2/ 6.5 diesel? And the oil pump could have been like the 5.3L crank driven... Where is my BS shovel.

GM's had some trouble with timing chains, but, generally some warnings are given like noise or SES on with timing codes. The 2000MY 4.3L V6 in my Sonoma had a noisy loud rattle harmonic with the balance shafts and GM told me they were adding a chain tesnioner to it for newer model years. ( Information on Engine/Balance Shaft Rattle Noise #00-06-01-023A)

It's the perception of cheapening out the diesel again with GM's past diesel reputation. (Esp. when you get 250K trouble free out of a 4.3L V6 gas engine in a oil patch fleet. At 250K the rest of the pickup is used up.)

Would have loved to see a GM diesel SUV again and we get this.
 

Will L.

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He said diesel Tahoe. So we’ll see.

I get wanting an engine to last a quarter of a million miles. But what is gm incentive? Their job is to make profit for shareholders, period. We all know the 6.2/6.5 problems, they followed up with dmax later. I think they did pretty good grabbing their market share.
Yea they pinch pennies. They all do. It’s just different issues from different manufacturers is what I am saying.

Ford’s version of this is a 3.0 liter v6. 250hp and 440 torque, not bad right? How’s the egr bypass valve problem? HORRIBLE! they did recall on that asap. If you aren’t familiar with it this guy gets coose to explaining it right. Except he doesn’t know over 75% of the failures hit the turbo and usually take it out along with both heads and multiple pistons and 20% of the time the block also. Keep in mind this is one of their issues that doesn’t even count because it is under recall. Ford and GM are playing in the superbowl here and dodge is running around with a ping pong paddle. So GM has nothing to worry about.

As far as putting a bad taste in people mouth for diesel- that titanic shipmalready hit the iceberg and is taking on water. Electric is coming and will be the future, like it or not.

 

RI Chevy Silveradoman

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Too bad GM never came out with that 4.5l V8 diesel engine that had exhaust in the middle and the intake on the outside. Looked really promising.

Am I wrong with my expectations of getting 500k minimum from my 2006 Duramax?
 

Will L.

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ok, gonna hurt your feelers probably.

Well, you can do it —depending how much $ you put into it.
I sure wouldn’t count on it.

they have the technology to do it - but these are not designed for it. It’s meant to run 150 -175 and have good enough resell so the original owner buys another gm. It’s like the 400,000 mile 6.2 and 6.5 engines. Yes they are out there. But not most. Will be same for 3.0. 75% will be scrap metal before breaking quarter million mile mark.

And I wouldn’t expect cracked block or crankshaft from the 3.0 dmax. But if ships full of sensors keep sinking, you’re sunk. Think about the “mechanical breakdowns” of the 6.5. Guy says -Well my truck is acting funnYOU NEED A PMD! Is the interruption before he can finish the question. The electronic supporting the mechanical is the issue still in most diesels, including semi trucks and emergency generators. And the 3.0 lives off them. So they are chucking sensors in hard to reach places that will live in 200f- 230f range. That is planned obsolescence not planned retention.

So while you wont break the big hunk of metal, the engine will require expensive repair just the same. And think about the weak link in gm gassers- playing with the valve timing and shutting some of them off for mpg. Lets list every engine Gm and ford ever made with that feature that resulted in long engine life, ready?
1.

ok. Now that we are done with the list, add the 3.0 to GM engines playing with valve timing and shutting off for mpg. “But Will, many GM engines had long lives” - yes- when people like me knew to shut that crap off and pay more in mpg and less in repairs. I had tons of those go through the fleet- ya think I kept that crap turned on? Hahaha ! Only the ones GM paid us in for testing.
The fleets around now that run gm almost all know to kill that. But what I understand you can’t in the 3.0 without huge smog and mpg penalties. Look at Banks: they offer a turbo blanket, a small tune, and a fancy gauge set (idash) is all they can do with it. Because the computer has everything locked down so tight you cant do stuff with it unless you don’t mind risking engine death.

So your gonna have faster compression wear and burn valve faster than normal new engine design. So rering and valve job at say 300,000 mile when you do the 2nd belt and second transmission- then ok. But the valve game messes up compression every time and since this is low compression high boost design, you can’t afford much compression loss. So half a million miles? Better start using engine restore at 20,000 mile intervals to build up that wear.

I don’t think your dealing with a horrible engine. But don’t believe the hype it is some amazing engine and gonna last like a 6bt, it just isn’t.

The extended oil changes for it - if you run a top end oil and centrifuge it, no problem. But look into the torn down ones that are doing the 6,000 or 7,000 mile intervals they say is ok. Even the tiniest emissions 1.5 ecoboost. The engine is still getting hot and the oil isn’t magical, so it is gonna sludge up a little. Now, remember I ran oil in my personal 6.0 LS engines to 30,000 miles. My wife and I drive hard and in Vegas heat. So I am not afraid of long engine oil life. But I knew the truck was gonna be out of my hands by 250,000 miles latest. Read what the bearing clearance is in those then in the 3.0. A 6.5 can handle crappier oil way better including the junker cam bearing set up in the 6.5. The lube ports in the 3.0 are more like carburetor jets than oil ports.

Think about what the egr does- re burning all that junker exhaust to get a little more of the fuel and bump the mpg 0.5%. Really It is for emissions. The newest engines recirc like 95% compared to 30% of the 6.5 and 60% dmax. Thats a lot of soot being forced through again. That is recipe for plugging oil passages imo.

I would venture to say 75% of the design of this engine is focused on passing smog. When has that ever helped an engine live longer? 32nd of Neveruary. Want regular dmax, cummins, powerstroke, cat, benz. Etc diesel engine to live the longest? People bypass the emissions crap, put exactly the amount of fuel needed to do the job, and thats it. Think back to the mpg of the 6.2 in a square body- same the 3.0 gets now. Aerodynamics, weight, power all similar, but don’t discount that 10 speed transmission. The only technological advantage is emissions, and hopefully applied the learned block metallurgy lesson.

I have a friend that owned a million mile 80s Toyota truck. But I helped him drop the trans 2 of the 4 rebuilds. I helped him pull and reset the rebuilt engine. Fuel tank, seat cushions, window cranks, shovels full of sensors, emissions parts, etc. Yup, it hit a million miles. But we did the math on it. He now buys a new Toyota (what he likes) every 250,000 miles instead because long term it is cheaper. Well before this phase of the great reset hit, it was.


Hopefully, you can reopen this post years down the road and hand me a stove full of crow for me to eat.
I don’t think WarWagon is right that the belt for the oil pump is a show stopper. I think it’s dumb, but not the end all. But you are on the opposite side of the spectrum with thinking $4,500 in todays money for just that oil pump belt is the worst of it to get to half mil.

I think 2025 this 3.0 will be a page in Wikipedia pointing to whats next.
 

Will L.

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Too bad GM never came out with that 4.5l V8 diesel engine that had exhaust in the middle and the intake on the outside. Looked really promising.

Am I wrong with my expectations of getting 500k minimum from my 2006 Duramax?
@RI Chevy Silveradoman

There is a reason IDIOT spelling begins with the letter ‘I’. Because I are an idiot.

Friendly someone texted me and said- “Will, he said 500k from the lly, not the 3.0!”

Yes the lly goes 500k. Provided you upgrade the fuel filtering system to protect that high pressure system.
100% stop the flow of fuel when water is present and it is good to go.
 

RI Chevy Silveradoman

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@RI Chevy Silveradoman

There is a reason IDIOT spelling begins with the letter ‘I’. Because I are an idiot.

Friendly someone texted me and said- “Will, he said 500k from the lly, not the 3.0!”

Yes the lly goes 500k. Provided you upgrade the fuel filtering system to protect that high pressure system.
100% stop the flow of fuel when water is present and it is good to go.
I actually upgraded to a by pass oil filter, 2 tall can CAT fuel filters, coolant filter, etc...

I do my maintenance religiously.

SO hopefully I am good to go.
Sad thing, body and chasis will rot out long before. 😔
 

Will L.

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I actually upgraded to a by pass oil filter, 2 tall can CAT fuel filters, coolant filter, etc...

I do my maintenance religiously.

SO hopefully I am good to go.
Sad thing, body and chasis will rot out long before. 😔
Heavy price you pay for some trees around you and some rain.

Stripped the 1/3 of the paint of to bear metal on 1943 Willy’s. It was outside like that for 10 of the 20 years it has been like that. Haven’t touched it since. I guess if I got out a magnifying glass i might find a spec of rust somewhere on it, but I doubt it.

To be fair, temp today is 108. But in my garage is about 115, so not much progress made today inside there...
 

BoostN

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Averaged 25MPG on the road trip there and back.. hand calculated. Not bad, I drive ~8 over the speed limit.

It's the smoothest engine/trans combo I've ever driven. I've got 1700 miles on it now.. I think it's time to trade it in based on some of the comments! :D
 
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