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- Thread starter Warrior
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Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
Good advise here thus far, if you are unclear what your rigs configuration is, look in the glove box if still legible, there should be a sticker with the RPO codes that will tell you what options your Burb came with, multiple RPO code converters on the web to put cod to a description what it means.
I have a 98 C1500 with the 6.5 Diesel some of the same consideration will apply to yours even though yours is a gasser.
@ 30 years old everything is suspect age aside you don't know what a previous owner(s) has/have done in abuse, upgrades, or maintenance so front to back check it all out.
Change all fluids/filters you didn't indicate C or K 1500 if K often overlooked is fluid change in the Xfer case, a deep trans pan with extra capacity is good addition, I run the PML pan in mine aluminum aids in heat xfer and add 3.75 qts..
Does your 5.7 have the rigid aluminum push clip oil cooler lines into a oil in grille cooler (usually part of the "towing package") if yes on the 6.5 hat is a bad fail point if they fail you lose oil pressure & engine quickly if at highway speeds, maybe consider something aftermarket there if your is the same.
For braking I went with SSBC twin piston calipers & slotted drilled rotors up front, OK upgrade there, replaced my vintage rubber brake lines with braided stainless/teflon inner to preclude collapsed inner hose liners, I also did a rear drum to disc conversion, I probably would not do that again I think the drums stop as well as the discs, I might do a complete rear axle swap that is already configured from factory as disc, but I'm good for now.
Check out Banks rear diff cover, I'm running PML there as well, Banks current rear diff cover wasn't avail back in early 2000s, would be a good opportunity to inspect diff gears and refresh with new diff oil.
I also run a Derale electric fan, Temp switch option controlled aux trans cooler https://derale.com under the truck, which keeps things cool especially in Summer stop/go traffic and you are not getting much cross flow through the radiator/AC condenser, also a little more system fluid capacity for tans in the cooler & plumbing to/from the cooler. Side benefit the engine runs a littler cooler as well, since the trans cooler section of your radiator is not competing/inducing heat with/to coolant in the rad as it tries to keep engine temps in check.
On topic of radiator, maybe a fresh T Stat and coolant change, remove radiator and deep clean the fins, between AC cond. & Rad. is a negative pressure area you will be amazed what gets sucked in there, bugs-dirt, I had a little bird carcass in mine. By deep clean I mean get some foamy AC coil cleaning solution spray the fins, let soak, 30 min or so, rinse with garden hose & nozzle set on fan or rain patterns, don't ue solid full force stream or you will bend over the fins. I do mine by connecting hose to my water heater drain, let it flow no nozzle too get crud out the water heater, then put nozzle on it and use clean warm/hot water to rinse foam/dirt out of the radiator fins. Foam rinse repeat until no more crud coming out, do the same for AC condenser, you should be able to leave it in the truck so you don't have to let charge out, word of caution the foam is a chemical so may remove old paint, so be careful when applying and rinsing.
How old is water pump, fan clutch, and hoses know/replace BEFORE you go hooking up to a trailer/load, how about your fuel tank is it clean in the bottom, maybe a new fuel pump in tank would be in order, is the filtration "sock on the pickup tube crudded up?
For springs in rear your might want a new set especially if past life, the Burb did a lot of towing, on my 98 K1500 truck also with the 6.5 Diesel, (it can/has tow(ed) VERY big many mods also) since 2002 it has had the Road master XXF kit on it https://activesuspension.com/pages/ras I prefer it over bags, as it is passive, you run on standard suspension ride unloaded, springs "engage" as load is added, it helps with trailer sway, and anti-torque "axle wrap".
If you have a good trans shop you trust, have them take your Burb on a "check ride" with scan tool hooked up so they can watch pressures/shifting, maybe a towing shift kit/valve mod would be worthwhile.
I have a 98 C1500 with the 6.5 Diesel some of the same consideration will apply to yours even though yours is a gasser.
@ 30 years old everything is suspect age aside you don't know what a previous owner(s) has/have done in abuse, upgrades, or maintenance so front to back check it all out.
Change all fluids/filters you didn't indicate C or K 1500 if K often overlooked is fluid change in the Xfer case, a deep trans pan with extra capacity is good addition, I run the PML pan in mine aluminum aids in heat xfer and add 3.75 qts..
Does your 5.7 have the rigid aluminum push clip oil cooler lines into a oil in grille cooler (usually part of the "towing package") if yes on the 6.5 hat is a bad fail point if they fail you lose oil pressure & engine quickly if at highway speeds, maybe consider something aftermarket there if your is the same.
For braking I went with SSBC twin piston calipers & slotted drilled rotors up front, OK upgrade there, replaced my vintage rubber brake lines with braided stainless/teflon inner to preclude collapsed inner hose liners, I also did a rear drum to disc conversion, I probably would not do that again I think the drums stop as well as the discs, I might do a complete rear axle swap that is already configured from factory as disc, but I'm good for now.
Check out Banks rear diff cover, I'm running PML there as well, Banks current rear diff cover wasn't avail back in early 2000s, would be a good opportunity to inspect diff gears and refresh with new diff oil.
I also run a Derale electric fan, Temp switch option controlled aux trans cooler https://derale.com under the truck, which keeps things cool especially in Summer stop/go traffic and you are not getting much cross flow through the radiator/AC condenser, also a little more system fluid capacity for tans in the cooler & plumbing to/from the cooler. Side benefit the engine runs a littler cooler as well, since the trans cooler section of your radiator is not competing/inducing heat with/to coolant in the rad as it tries to keep engine temps in check.
On topic of radiator, maybe a fresh T Stat and coolant change, remove radiator and deep clean the fins, between AC cond. & Rad. is a negative pressure area you will be amazed what gets sucked in there, bugs-dirt, I had a little bird carcass in mine. By deep clean I mean get some foamy AC coil cleaning solution spray the fins, let soak, 30 min or so, rinse with garden hose & nozzle set on fan or rain patterns, don't ue solid full force stream or you will bend over the fins. I do mine by connecting hose to my water heater drain, let it flow no nozzle too get crud out the water heater, then put nozzle on it and use clean warm/hot water to rinse foam/dirt out of the radiator fins. Foam rinse repeat until no more crud coming out, do the same for AC condenser, you should be able to leave it in the truck so you don't have to let charge out, word of caution the foam is a chemical so may remove old paint, so be careful when applying and rinsing.
How old is water pump, fan clutch, and hoses know/replace BEFORE you go hooking up to a trailer/load, how about your fuel tank is it clean in the bottom, maybe a new fuel pump in tank would be in order, is the filtration "sock on the pickup tube crudded up?
For springs in rear your might want a new set especially if past life, the Burb did a lot of towing, on my 98 K1500 truck also with the 6.5 Diesel, (it can/has tow(ed) VERY big many mods also) since 2002 it has had the Road master XXF kit on it https://activesuspension.com/pages/ras I prefer it over bags, as it is passive, you run on standard suspension ride unloaded, springs "engage" as load is added, it helps with trailer sway, and anti-torque "axle wrap".
If you have a good trans shop you trust, have them take your Burb on a "check ride" with scan tool hooked up so they can watch pressures/shifting, maybe a towing shift kit/valve mod would be worthwhile.
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
Here is a thought.
Take a look at the GMT-800 3/4 ton Burb as Will suggested. Or better yet, the GMT-900 with a 6L80.
Sure, the current Burb is workable, after making changes.
But, unless the GMT-800 or GMT-900 3/4 ton Burb is clapped-out, it needs nothing in terms of upgrades to meet the mission goals. Sure, it will probably need some maintenance the the PO did not want to do, but this is a normal part of a used vehicle.
With that, chances are good that a GMT-900 is nearly money equal to upgrading the current GMT-400 (accounting for cost recovery).
About the F350s. Weak link in the '97 is the slush-box. If they have the big V8 (IIRC, a 460), good engines although they are thirsty.
Take a look at the GMT-800 3/4 ton Burb as Will suggested. Or better yet, the GMT-900 with a 6L80.
Sure, the current Burb is workable, after making changes.
But, unless the GMT-800 or GMT-900 3/4 ton Burb is clapped-out, it needs nothing in terms of upgrades to meet the mission goals. Sure, it will probably need some maintenance the the PO did not want to do, but this is a normal part of a used vehicle.
With that, chances are good that a GMT-900 is nearly money equal to upgrading the current GMT-400 (accounting for cost recovery).
About the F350s. Weak link in the '97 is the slush-box. If they have the big V8 (IIRC, a 460), good engines although they are thirsty.
jrsavoie
Recruit
What's the best year GMT900?
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Preference. Diesel engine, most say last year not DEF fluid. Gas engines, most say just before cylinder cancellation. I fit in with those opinions.
On the gas, I am in love with the 6.0. Most go to the 6.2. Near bulletproof engine that gives good mpg and can tow well. If a person tows more than it handles stock, it can upgraded to pull 8,500 and still crush 300,000 miles then be a rebuildable engine. Very few things to even consider modifying, doing them helps but isn’t needed.
If you get the cylinder cancellation, it is a time bomb. It can be fixed but requires heads off, camshaft & lifters replaced, couple odd parts replaced, and computer reprogramming. How long before it fails- all over the place.
Above that ya need the dmax. Now you are into the def and other emissions things that hurt engine life, power, & mpg. Currently legal battles happening that might undo the requirement of them or might undo penalties for altering it. The safest reaction is- if someone does the mods, keep all the original parts. I know guys who have a written note showing mechanical issues with things like “Now with the items temporarily removed, drive the truck until the invalid engine fault clears itself. Then you can put everything back on and drive how you normally do.” This way there is ‘evidence’ of this being part of a temporary repair and test.
The more electrical components and more electronics there are, the more failures come from it. I have not heard of two people needing to fix their window system on manual cranking windows in last 30 years, but 1/4 the cables or the motors for electric windows. The electronic shifting transfer cases have shifting issue but the lever shifted units almost never failed- not just gmt900 but all the years.
I appreciate little conveniences of power windows & locks- the added cost and maintenance is worth it to me. Same for a/c. But almost all the other new stuff available is not a desirable item to me.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
iirc 2005 began the cylinder cancellation on 5.3's and 6.0's the 01-04 6.0's are a beast coupled to a 4l80 or 6l80 trans. but user be ware... all gm engines if this era have a design flaw. the oil pumps were installed behind the timing covers and driven by the crank snout. they are aluminum housings and have an o-ring that connects the pickup tube. those o-rings crack and begin to suck air causing oil pressure loss and ultimately engine failure. I have seen this on a wide range of GM engines from the 4.2's in trailblazers to the 6.0's in bigger rigs. folks tried to get GM to do a recall on them but they wouldn't budge on it. it's simply the material they used for the o-ring and heat cycles that caused it.
further more the oil pans are cast aluminum which also holds the oil filter. the oil pan gaskets are an aluminum with molded rubber which also has built-in seals that meet the block for the oil filter passages into the pan. my opinion is a poor design.
these things normally tend to fail around 225k miles when the oil pressure loss issues arise. if you get one, plan to drop the pan, as well as the WP and timing cover to replace it all.
the newer GM engines with the VVT (variable valve timing or better known as cylinder cancellation) are a joke. 85% of the time it doesn't work properly and has been known to kill the engine with bent valves or worse. there are delete kits available but at what cost....
the d-max diesels have their fair share of issues same as our beloved 6.5's but I agree, stay clear of the ones that use DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) and or a DPF filter (diesel particulate filter) Nothing but trouble. this started around 2010-2012 or so on all diesels.
further more the oil pans are cast aluminum which also holds the oil filter. the oil pan gaskets are an aluminum with molded rubber which also has built-in seals that meet the block for the oil filter passages into the pan. my opinion is a poor design.
these things normally tend to fail around 225k miles when the oil pressure loss issues arise. if you get one, plan to drop the pan, as well as the WP and timing cover to replace it all.
the newer GM engines with the VVT (variable valve timing or better known as cylinder cancellation) are a joke. 85% of the time it doesn't work properly and has been known to kill the engine with bent valves or worse. there are delete kits available but at what cost....
the d-max diesels have their fair share of issues same as our beloved 6.5's but I agree, stay clear of the ones that use DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) and or a DPF filter (diesel particulate filter) Nothing but trouble. this started around 2010-2012 or so on all diesels.
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
LBZ Duramax, model years of 2006 and 2007, no particle filter, no DEF.
360 HP, and 650 ft lbs of torque.
Not as much power as the new ones, but it still can get the job done. Torque management defuels it to cut down on spinning the tires, but hook a 5000 pound trailer to the truck and you can smoke the tires. Also, be very careful on wet roads, it will spin with ease even at 35 to 40 mph with a hard jab on the accelerator pedal.
360 HP, and 650 ft lbs of torque.
Not as much power as the new ones, but it still can get the job done. Torque management defuels it to cut down on spinning the tires, but hook a 5000 pound trailer to the truck and you can smoke the tires. Also, be very careful on wet roads, it will spin with ease even at 35 to 40 mph with a hard jab on the accelerator pedal.
jrsavoie
Recruit
For a truck, Unless I find a bargain on a 2006 or 2007 duramax, I will stick with the 1994, if I ever get it on the road again.
I should have noted I was referring to a Suburban.
I've always wanted another Suburban.
I should have noted I was referring to a Suburban.
I've always wanted another Suburban.
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dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
you can always get something like this. will tow anything you can throw at it LOL.
jrsavoie
Recruit
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
They are putting the Inline 6, 3.0 Liter Duramax in the new Suburbans for a pretty penny these days. I know, they are not as classy as the older ones...
Will L.
Well-Known Member
At 277hp/460 torque, and the timing maintenance issue - it would have to have some serious mpg to be worth it. In the smaller pickups they net 25 mpg, so in a burb. I would expect 22-23mpg.
At my work we have a couple dozen now, and I been tracking with the guys who drive them daily. The ones who so all city driving are actually getting 18.5 in the summer and 20 rest of the time. The routes are set, its just in summer the methanol percentage jumps from 5% to 10%.
There’s two guys that tow small trailers the time, equivalent to a single axle camp trailer. They loose 2 mpg city and 3 on the hiway.
Add in the price of diesel and def, plus additional maintenance for the wazoo exhaust system and it takes about 100,000 miles to break even with the costs.
Each guy who owns his own personal diesel truck said the same thing: it needs a bigger turbo, better intercooler, and a multi adjustable tune. One of the guys likes the truck enough he bought one for himself. His plan is to leave it stock until just after warranty. Then he will delete, bump turbo and is currently searching a water to air cooler. He is also considering a WMI in place of the water to air. He said he may or may not have jurry-rigged a diy mist behind the air filter in his work truck and is convinced doing everything will bump power the extra 10% he wants and bump mpg 10-15% at same time.
I’m still thinking when it comes to suburbans THEFERMANATOR had the proper solution.
At my work we have a couple dozen now, and I been tracking with the guys who drive them daily. The ones who so all city driving are actually getting 18.5 in the summer and 20 rest of the time. The routes are set, its just in summer the methanol percentage jumps from 5% to 10%.
There’s two guys that tow small trailers the time, equivalent to a single axle camp trailer. They loose 2 mpg city and 3 on the hiway.
Add in the price of diesel and def, plus additional maintenance for the wazoo exhaust system and it takes about 100,000 miles to break even with the costs.
Each guy who owns his own personal diesel truck said the same thing: it needs a bigger turbo, better intercooler, and a multi adjustable tune. One of the guys likes the truck enough he bought one for himself. His plan is to leave it stock until just after warranty. Then he will delete, bump turbo and is currently searching a water to air cooler. He is also considering a WMI in place of the water to air. He said he may or may not have jurry-rigged a diy mist behind the air filter in his work truck and is convinced doing everything will bump power the extra 10% he wants and bump mpg 10-15% at same time.
I’m still thinking when it comes to suburbans THEFERMANATOR had the proper solution.
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
GM coming out with a new, gen. 6, small block V8 in 2027. Guess that will be interesting. I'm sure it will still have that active fuel management on it of course. Could they not learn from the issues with 6.2 Liter V8?
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
Last I looked (a little over a year ago), the new diesel Burb that people are salivating over is just a 1500 with 14K GCVW. Meh... Ferd wins in this market segment with the gas twin turbo, although this is not all that great an achievement as this ride is just a car in SUV clothing. Even the Feds and DoD moved away from fleets of the big black Burb and now drive black Ferd SUVs.
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
I'd really like to see GM come back with a big block gas engine, over 7 Liters, that has some serious grunt about it. Ford has the 7.3 Liter Godzilla gas engine that seems to have some respectable numbers. Not sure how it's holding up or performing., I know there's tons of videos on line about them.
For no more towing than I do, my next heavy duty truck may have a gas engine, instead of a diesel. Ten thousand dollars or more difference in price for the diesel option, will buy alot of Regular gas.
For no more towing than I do, my next heavy duty truck may have a gas engine, instead of a diesel. Ten thousand dollars or more difference in price for the diesel option, will buy alot of Regular gas.
jrsavoie
Recruit
And way out of my price range for something I want, but don't really need.They are putting the Inline 6, 3.0 Liter Duramax in the new Suburbans for a pretty penny these days. I know, they are not as classy as the older ones...
Kind of like that single shot .444 Marlin rifle, I've been pining over.
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
You really want that .444 Marlin, just do it and then there is no more fretting over it. In the past I debated about certain ones, thought I really didn't need. Now, these days the item is no longer available, and I think well heck, I should have bought one. Yelp, I have several options available, but when it all boils down to it, the first 30.06 I bought would have done anything I needed it to do.
Back on topic, to the original post, those older trucks serve a purpose, we all don't want todays fancy gadgets, just give us some GM V-8s that still get the job done. The good vehicles that are not wore out are hard to find unless you run across a barn find or a truck that Grandpa Jones drove a short distance every day. Sometimes it's a hard decision on what to get.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I love watching those youtube videos of folks stripping these old rigs down and rebuilding from the ground up. One day I want to do this to my 93. on top of possibly converting it to a short bed step side. it would be the only 3500 crew cab short bed step side on this side of the US that I'm aware of. seen others do it online and they looked really good. it would make it a perfect RV hauler with a 5th wheel / goose neck hitch in the bed!
what would be even cooler is that setup with some custom rear fenders and make it a dually with dual fuel tanks!
the look of the stepside bed inspired me since back in the day my dad owned a 91 1500 stepside that was black same as my 93. great memories of us riding around it it when I was a youngster.
what would be even cooler is that setup with some custom rear fenders and make it a dually with dual fuel tanks!
the look of the stepside bed inspired me since back in the day my dad owned a 91 1500 stepside that was black same as my 93. great memories of us riding around it it when I was a youngster.
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
I'm doing this on my early generation Ferd SD to correct a few OE items, including an attraction to rust. Currently have the truck completely stripped and feel like a teenager on a first date: What do I do now...???
Interestingly, close to 98% of the vehicle disassembled with a 1/4" socket set.
Folks in the shop, and some of the family, want me to install power adders. Don't need that stuff. Truck already has a man pedal and a tad over 500'/# with a stock tune. That is more than plenty to smoke the tires. If anything, I will help the engine inhale and exhale better along with adding some Inconel products to push heat under the bay. Oh, and I might design a custom overhead console and some other cabin goodies to make the ride a bit more "man cave" than OE.
Last item I might consider is an electo-viscous fan clutch. Fun fact: it is the same setup that AK is using in his rig and I just need to make sure that the OE fan will actually mate to the clutch.