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Sucked Near A Quart of Oil, Temp went to 210.

dbrannon79 said:
on the pics you posted I could not tell where you ground out on the pump to match the ports of the backing plate. can you post were you ground into?

on that one that you said wasn't cooling well it kinda looks like the impeller is slightly out on the shaft where the others look like the shaft is protruding out slightly further than the impeller. if there is a larger gap under the impeller to the pump body, that might explain why it's not pushing as much coolant flow as the others. I would think it's not just the gap on the sides of the impeller but also the gap behind it to the body too.

My thinking is the only real way to test flow and balance would be to have someone mock up a pump and timing cover not attached to an engine but have it in such a way flow meters could be attached to each outlet of the pump where it meets the block and use a motor to drive the pump monitoring flow on each side. taking into account that some flow from the pump on the hose bib for the heater would come from one side or the other. I bet we have members here who could do such a thing, it would be interesting to see results of that.
Click to expand...
It was a very slight amount that I removed from the pump.
This is the before picture.
IMG_2937.jpeg
And the after.
The new Delco pump was a real close match and most likely would have caused no problems.
But this should give a smooth transition.IMG_2977.jpeg

How about sealent on the bolt threads.
Guess I could install them dry then if there is any seepage use a very slight amount of aluma seal.
I did use some of the nickel anti seize when I put it together.
 
Thinking back about the temperature that the engine had got up to, looked back at the picture of the temperature gauge after I had got back to town.
It was not 210*F, it wS right next to 220*F.
I hope with the new GEP advertised steel and casting improvements that no damage occurred to the heads.
IMG_2906.jpeg
 
I put sealant on each bolt for the waterpump.
It hurts nothing, keeps rotation force:torque equal on them.
I actually asked a GM engineer about that in the 90’s, he said it’s a better practice but costs a couple pennies so they don’t do it.

He said the right stuff was better than any of the stuff gm used factory back when they were built. For those familiar with GMS (GM SILICONE) aka in the dealerships as Gooey Messy Shite- that was a GM attempt at imitating permetex’s Right Stuff. Later they gave up and used permatex.
 
Yeah- there is a difference in sealant and CRAP TONS OF SEALANT.
How much to use- look at the cured sealant on headbolts. Note how far up the threads it goes and that it is not so thick as to cover the thread edges.
All you do is fill the void.

Unless someone jambs a bunch in the hole before starting the bolt, the sealant should track & stay on the threads at the opening of the hole.
All the waterpumps I’ve done- Ive never had sealant al the way to the end of the hole. Definitely never damaged a block.

But that is good thinking to make sure people don’t jamb a bunch into the hole.


IMG_3364.jpeg
 
MrMarty51 said:
Thank You @Big T
I have to have this truck road worthy dependable before the 18th of June. Its going on a long journey on that day. To West Salem Ohio, south of Cincinnati, then drift around Ohio for a while.
Click to expand...
Keep us in mind while you're touring Ohio if you have the time. We are north of Columbus
 
I do know that we will be doing a bunch of riding in the Wayne National Forest area.
Today I did get to do a meetup with a member of another forum, from
gmsquarebody.com his handle over there is Idaho Vette.
He and his wife was passing through and He contacted Me and we went out for coffee.
After they left I had thought about going home and working on the truck, but, so many people have quit the school that the kitchen is short handed so I went back to work, I have been the acting lunch delivery person for about a month or more. I’ll be doing this until school is out then maybe through summer they will find a replacement driver.
 
Got the coolant pump installed.
That other pump was cast so bad that the studded original bolts didnt seem the right length.
With this new pump I got out the proper studded bolts, installed them then the alternator bracket fit right and proper over them studs and bolted to the block like it originally is suppose to.
Then pulled the thermostat housing, and, the intake manifold.
Sometime before I got this truck, someone had installed helicoils in the upper manifold bolt holes. One of those repair coil holes had been drilled at an angle.
Last time I had the UM removed, putting it back on and the center forward crooked drilled hole had busted out.
The PO of this truck has some 6.5 stuff setting, he had a couple spare lower manifolds so He mailed Me one.
So now I have also removed the LM and hope tomorrow, before dark can have that nice manifold bolted down and the truck back together.
Thats about all for today.
 
Because of the potential added wear of the break in oil issue-
I would pull an oil sample for the lab results if you haven’t already.

Don’t run this oil the normal length. It’s always smart to fit in an extra oil change in the first 3,000 miles- people argue where it should be, but all results show it helps to be in there. With the varied possibilities of how hot, how long the break in oil might have stayed functional as normal oil, etc. it’s not the greatest scenario so a little extra attention is definitely a good idea imo.
The panic button side of me is twitching so I don’t wanna hit that and scare you with the extreme “what ifs”.

I would go to the safer side at this point on the oil change interval.

If you’re feeling sprightly, do a compression check. Not thinking head crack damage, just to see seated rings and that the heat didn’t play with the rings any.
I doubt the heat if only 220 for a short time was enough to crack head at valve seats. With that many miles on break in oil- there is no way your rings shouldn’t be fully seated.

Are you planning to synthetic oil for this engine?
 
I bought five gallons of Rotella T-4 15-W40 and was thinking next oil change at 250 miles, and pulling sample from this current oil change when I drain it at 250 miles. Then running the next OC for 500 miles.
Before I pulled the old engine I had ordered oil sample kits and I think there is two or three kits in that bag, two for sure.
Also I believe in doing the full spectrum oil test on every sample sent to Blackstone.
I will switch to synthetic oil but I am thinking of doing that after about 5,000 miles with oil changes every 2000 until then.
 
Pulled the radiator since the system is drained down.
Took a peek into the hose connectors and all is good within.
Pics for reference on clean.
IMG_2995.jpeg
IMG_2996.jpeg
IMG_2997.jpeg

And this is whats possible when a helicoil is not drilled and inserted square and true.
IMG_2998.jpeg
The bolt in this center forward position has always been at a slight angle, yup, last thermostat change this is what happened when I tightened that bolt.
I was fortunate that the guy I had bought the truck from had a couple of spare lower manifolds.
He mailed Me one.
Previous, I have mailed Him up rated components after I had got much better units.
I mailed Him the GM8 turbo with the Wicked Wheel upgrade, he was mighty surprised to receive that.
 
The gasket material that is still stuck to the lower intake was a gasket that I made.
I did not punch that forward center hole, then applied the right stuff to that surface area to keep it sealed under the pressure of the turbo.
That held just fine to make another two runs to check the operating temps for various reasons.
 
MrMarty51 said:
I will switch to synthetic oil but I am thinking of doing that after about 5,000 miles with oil changes every 2000 until then.
Click to expand...

Consider letting analysis drive this decision. If switching too early while particulate generation remains high, using turns into an expensive adventure due to the shorter duration of the change interval. Once analysis supports at least 5Kmi intervals, then go for the switch.
 
JayTheCPA said:
Consider letting analysis drive this decision. If switching too early while particulate generation remains high, using turns into an expensive adventure due to the shorter duration of the change interval. Once analysis supports at least 5Kmi intervals, then go for the switch.
Click to expand...
Thank You. That sounds like a much better plan than My haphazard way.
The old timer used to tell me that the break in oil needs particulate to help seat in the rings, sort of a find grinding compound.
Thats why He always recommended 500 miles to the first oil change.
 
It depends on the type of break in oil used as to how long it stays in there. Over the years Ive seen 10 minute oil to 3,000 mile oil as break in oil, for a while there was synthetic break in oil. It just depends what that engineer was trying to accomplish, and many of them were only trying to accomplish sales for $$ in their pocket even if it was at the expense of your engine’s life. It wasn’t until hundreds of people started sharing experiences online that the synthetic was learned by enough people that it went away.

Some folks are surprised to learn about the powders rubbed onto cylinder wall and assuring ZERO oil on it for the gapless rings for instance. But it was used only on certain types/ applications. Taking the time to learn which method it best for specific application is where most folks get wrecked. The way a diesel pickup that just gets daily driven like a passenger car gets done is different than a drag racing engine- even if they are both a 6.5 in the same year truck.
Having the pistons ported and running ported rings is awesome for the track, not for going 300,000 miles. They require different cylinder wall finish (which gramps never heard of different finishes) requires different break in oil and different process.

And NO, you don’t want any of the debris flowing around with the oil everywhere.
That’s a theory the guy had.
Most of what is being broken in. Is the rings seating to the cylinder walls. A little of the cylinder walls and little of the ring material gets worn away to get the microscopic fitment.
Nothing nothing on piston, pin, rod wears away. Microscopic levels only of the rod, crank, and cam bearings will wear away- but honestly the less the better. A y wear there is actually undesirable.
The unfortunate new engine break in damage actually the bearings trapping any of the other metals that did wear away and get floated in the oil & not yet caught by the filter- can get to the bearings and actually embed into the soft bearing material and do long term and even engine ending damage to the crank, rods, cam.
What else wears: a new timing chain /gears & timing gears get any microscopic wear into them from not being manufactured perfectly. Same for cam gear to oil pump drive (or old 6.2 vacuum pump that was there). Where the lifters ride the cam lobes, the lifter rollers themselves, these start some microscopic wear. Both ends of pushrods, both ends of rocker arms & top of valves. Mechanical lift pump pushrod & arm for those with the mistake of still using them. Again all get the tiniest amount of microscopic wear during break in.
But this is misunderstood by many - NONE of these other items wearing or breaking in is a good thing. Having accelerated wear in all of these points is a negative effect.
Ideally everyone would get an oil accumulator and the bearings & such would never experience any of this because of the pre-charge of oil before every start up including the break in debris being displaced- not used like a rubbing compound as the guy described to you.

The metal to metal contact that is under force (like rocker arm to valve top) is at the load it’s entire life and has no film of oil separating them, it gets passive oiling to help ease the wear- but all wear hear is bad. No wear pattern is helpful.

The bearings should theoretically never have any wear. That super tiny clearance should retain enough oil to help until the oil pump has fed enough oil to keep the bearing surface away from the spinny metal item next to it. Almost all bearing wear is at start up before the oil pump can start doing its job. Hence the oil accumulator comment. Or similar is an auxiliary electric oil pump you turn on before starting. Having these will almost fully eliminate bearing wear. If you ran one of these, you could pull apart an engine with well over 300,000 miles and have nearly untouched bearings. The only wear and damage would come from debris floating around in the oil- much like the rubbing compound theory that guy was thinking of.

It used to be a thing where people would actually guy an oil filter- or the even older engines that had completely external oil filters-it would be bypassed during break in. All in the belief of the theory deemed rubbing compound. And it turns out, these engines would seat the rings in the same amount of time as ones with filters intact- but would infact suffer sorter lives, loose compression sooner from wall scoring, damaged bearings,etc. Alas- “Great Gramps was the best mechanic ever so we do what he did”. Just remember many great gramps had engines that never had any oil filters and if they couldn’t see chunks or sludge in the oil… it was fine to keep going.

The very best break in process for any engine regardless of long life vs race is a dyno or dyno sim machine. But that’s $$$ so most don’t do it.
 
Will L. said:
It depends on the type of break in oil used as to how long it stays in there. Over the years Ive seen 10 minute oil to 3,000 mile oil as break in oil, for a while there was synthetic break in oil. It just depends what that engineer was trying to accomplish, and many of them were only trying to accomplish sales for $$ in their pocket even if it was at the expense of your engine’s life. It wasn’t until hundreds of people started sharing experiences online that the synthetic was learned by enough people that it went away.

Some folks are surprised to learn about the powders rubbed onto cylinder wall and assuring ZERO oil on it for the gapless rings for instance. But it was used only on certain types/ applications. Taking the time to learn which method it best for specific application is where most folks get wrecked. The way a diesel pickup that just gets daily driven like a passenger car gets done is different than a drag racing engine- even if they are both a 6.5 in the same year truck.
Having the pistons ported and running ported rings is awesome for the track, not for going 300,000 miles. They require different cylinder wall finish (which gramps never heard of different finishes) requires different break in oil and different process.

And NO, you don’t want any of the debris flowing around with the oil everywhere.
That’s a theory the guy had.
Most of what is being broken in. Is the rings seating to the cylinder walls. A little of the cylinder walls and little of the ring material gets worn away to get the microscopic fitment.
Nothing nothing on piston, pin, rod wears away. Microscopic levels only of the rod, crank, and cam bearings will wear away- but honestly the less the better. A y wear there is actually undesirable.
The unfortunate new engine break in damage actually the bearings trapping any of the other metals that did wear away and get floated in the oil & not yet caught by the filter- can get to the bearings and actually embed into the soft bearing material and do long term and even engine ending damage to the crank, rods, cam.
What else wears: a new timing chain /gears & timing gears get any microscopic wear into them from not being manufactured perfectly. Same for cam gear to oil pump drive (or old 6.2 vacuum pump that was there). Where the lifters ride the cam lobes, the lifter rollers themselves, these start some microscopic wear. Both ends of pushrods, both ends of rocker arms & top of valves. Mechanical lift pump pushrod & arm for those with the mistake of still using them. Again all get the tiniest amount of microscopic wear during break in.
But this is misunderstood by many - NONE of these other items wearing or breaking in is a good thing. Having accelerated wear in all of these points is a negative effect.
Ideally everyone would get an oil accumulator and the bearings & such would never experience any of this because of the pre-charge of oil before every start up including the break in debris being displaced- not used like a rubbing compound as the guy described to you.

The metal to metal contact that is under force (like rocker arm to valve top) is at the load it’s entire life and has no film of oil separating them, it gets passive oiling to help ease the wear- but all wear hear is bad. No wear pattern is helpful.

The bearings should theoretically never have any wear. That super tiny clearance should retain enough oil to help until the oil pump has fed enough oil to keep the bearing surface away from the spinny metal item next to it. Almost all bearing wear is at start up before the oil pump can start doing its job. Hence the oil accumulator comment. Or similar is an auxiliary electric oil pump you turn on before starting. Having these will almost fully eliminate bearing wear. If you ran one of these, you could pull apart an engine with well over 300,000 miles and have nearly untouched bearings. The only wear and damage would come from debris floating around in the oil- much like the rubbing compound theory that guy was thinking of.

It used to be a thing where people would actually guy an oil filter- or the even older engines that had completely external oil filters-it would be bypassed during break in. All in the belief of the theory deemed rubbing compound. And it turns out, these engines would seat the rings in the same amount of time as ones with filters intact- but would infact suffer sorter lives, loose compression sooner from wall scoring, damaged bearings,etc. Alas- “Great Gramps was the best mechanic ever so we do what he did”. Just remember many great gramps had engines that never had any oil filters and if they couldn’t see chunks or sludge in the oil… it was fine to keep going.

The very best break in process for any engine regardless of long life vs race is a dyno or dyno sim machine. But that’s $$$ so most don’t do it.
Click to expand...
Can’t summarize this into the 5-word thread?
 
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