Suburban question

[Detroit Dan]

Maybe in the wrong place, I can go to the towing page if necessary. I've been looking at mid 90s Subs, and I'd really like to get a 3/4 ton, if I could use it to tow my camper. It weighs a hair under 11,000lbs. It gets pretty heavy behind my 6.5 3500 on the bigger hills. I've seen different ratings in different places, some say the 2500 Sub will tow 10k, others say 12k. I know I'd have to get a weight distributing hitch (don't use one now).

Here's my dilemma. I have found a couple of 454 Subs that undoubtably have enough torque to tow it, but I am not a fan of the gas mileage, or lack thereof. This vehicle would become my daily driver and the 1 ton would go back to being a work/plow truck again. I can't afford a gashog big block to only tow a couple times a year. The 6.5 Subs are great but rare and way more money. Unless one falls in my lap cheap I can't afford one. That leaves the 2500 Sub with a 350 engine. I've found one real cheap, a 93 but I'm a little concerned it won't have the grunt to pull the camper. GVWRs must be the same or close to it, maybe some difference in gearing. I could probably get a little aftermarket help for the 350, exhaust and intake, but I don't need HP I need torque, and I doubt much could be had without changing the cam, which isn't worth it.
My last option would be a 1500 Sub, obviously couldn't tow the camper but still be a good daily driver. Main reason I want a 4 door is I now have 2 kids in kindergarten that have to be shuttled around a lot. I don't have room in my pickup unless I empty all my important stuff out, so I've been borrowing my mothers little Saturn. Yuck, too small.

Just trying to figure out if I can justify another 8 lug truck, I really can't unless I can tow with it. Right now we use my 1 ton to tow and the family follows along in the Avalanche. Kind of a waste to take two vehicles every time we go camping, but there's just not enough room in my extended cab for a wife, 2 kids (soon to be 3) and a Golden Retriever. Also, I may be taking a long camping trip next year, and I'd rather not pack five people into my truck, and burn off 6 mud tires highway driving. And bringing the Avalanche wouldn't be an option.
Sure would be nice to have a 6.5 Sub for that trip, because I'll need to keep up with my sisters V10 Excursion.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Not to sure of your terrain, but my 6.5 SUB tows pretty well. I don't think a 350 powered sub will have the grunt to pull 11K in tow with another 800-1000 pounds inside of people and gear stock. You could build up a stout 350 or 383 for one of the older TBI engines and be able to tow that much. A 454 will drink you out of house and home as a daily driver. Another thing to remember with the 350 powered subs is that most of them I have seen have the 4L60E in them. In stock form that tranny will not last if towing more than 7000-7500 pounds for any length of time(learned this one the hard way).

 

[jbsaxman]

hmmm.....That's a tough one, DD. I am really not sure what to suggest.

I did tell the wifey last night that I wanted a 6.5 'burb. She seemed open to it, not that we have the $$ for one of those.

 

[steelydan]

I recently hauled home my tandem axle flatdeck trailer with 4 yards of soil and rocks after completing a late night job. Hauled it about 35 miles. Flat freeway and some nasty hills as my home is in the mountains. My Sub had no problem towing it, had a bigger problem stopping it. 11 pounds of boost uphill and had to back of throttle because EGT's got over 1200f.
The best part of owning a Sub is the room. I also own a 2004.5 cummins and it sits in the garage as the kids would rather ride in the Sub as it has more room. Diesel subs are quite rare...very rare in Canada. Get a 1999 if you can.
I had a 350 powered K2500 Suburban and their is no comparison in fuel mileage or towing...

 

[Detroit Dan]

Another thing to remember with the 350 powered subs is that most of them I have seen have the 4L60E in them. In stock form that tranny will not last if towing more than 7000-7500 pounds for any length of time(learned this one the hard way).

Excellent point, I hadn't considered that. I guess I just assumed the tranny was probably a 4l80e, but I bet you're right.

 

[Detroit Dan]

looked on one of the camper websites, listing for a 99 350 Sub shows a 7500 lb tow capacity. Only 500 lbs more for a 6.5. One of the ads I saw for a 6.5 Sub the guy says it can tow 12k, which I think is a little generous. But if it had 4:10s and a 4l80e, I wouldn't be afraid to try.
All depends on who you believe, I've seen my truck listed with a 4500 lb towing capacity, all the way up to 14k. Course it doesn't matter anymore because apparently nowadays you can register your 1 ton for 38,000 and it's legal.
I emailed the guy with the 93 350 Burb, he said it towed a Bobcat 763 regularly, iirc that's probably only about 4700 lbs. He also said he moved a 12x52 mobile home, and several cottages on a deckover, no idea how much weight though. Original owner towed a 6 horse trailer with it.

 

[mfgguru]

It's not the weight that will kill you, it's the dang wind resistance. You can't compare pulling a flat deck with soil to a great big travel trailer. I pulled a V-neck stock trailer (32ft long) with about 7000lbs in it. The trailer weighs about 4000LBS, 11000 total. With no wind, no problem, OD at 60 easy. Side wind or head wind, I had to kick down to 3rd at times. Just remember, lets talk apples to apples here. No offense.

 

[packratt]

Check Autotrader. They show 10+ K2500 diesels

 

[Detroit Dan]

check this out

So I'm confused. Guy says this is a 1500, it looks like 8 lug wheels to me. I wrote and asked him why it's a 1500, he said it's a "heavy half", and it is a 1500. 8th letter of VIN is F, and it has 8 lug wheels, so how can it be a 1500? I've heard of dealer prep upgrades that changed 1500 brakes to 8 lug. The way I understand it there was 6 lug 1500, 6 lug light duty 1500, and 8 lug heavy duty 2500. So this should be a 2500 by all rights, don't you think? I can't see wany of the door emblems, but they must say 1500, I'm sure that's where the guy is getting it from. I did see one recently that was a 1500 that had the brakes and wheels upgraded when new at a dealer, and that said 1500, but this one should be an S code if it were really a 1500, no?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...60300664734&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123

 

[Turbine Doc]

all burbs with 6.5 are 8 lug even C1500 like mine, add some upgrades and it should have plenty of power, what may hurt though in a 1500 burb is the 3:42 rear that comes with those and mine is a F 3:42 rear gear also, I think the lugs, the frame and non EGR has to do with total vehicle weight, 7700# IIRC vs 6400# of the truck my K1500 truck is 6 lugged and was a EGR'd (S) engine at one time since it was "lighter" in factory trim than the burb it did not "need" the F HD 63^3mm fuel & boost schedule,

 

[Detroit Dan]

I definitely dont want anything to do with a 3:42 gear. Any idea what would would have been available in a 2500 Burb? I'd guess 3:73, which I suppose I could make do with, but ideally I'd want a 4:10.

I looked again at that one on ebay, and trying to zoom in on the pic it really looks like it says 2500 on it. Weird.

 

[Veg_Out]

You buy the 3.42's and I'll give you my 4.10's.!

Thanks.

 

[Turbine Doc]

I definitely dont want anything to do with a 3:42 gear. Any idea what would would have been available in a 2500 Burb? I'd guess 3:73, which I suppose I could make do with, but ideally I'd want a 4:10. you sure 4:10 has torque, but mpg is in toilet

I looked again at that one on ebay, and trying to zoom in on the pic it really looks like it says 2500 on it. Weird.

Advert says it is a K1500 but looks like a C1500 from height it appears to be standing, did they make a K1500 burb ??? if K (4x4) should have torsion bar suspension vs spring and probably a 3:73 my K1500 truck is 3:73, that is good for 18K of load with additional mods. Wonder if you can get them to post a pic of RPO codes sheet from glove box

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yes, they made a K1500 BURB(I've driven one). As TD said, all 6.5 SUB's had 8 lug wheels. The 1500 used the 9.5" 14 bolt rear axle, and the 2500 used the 10.5" full floating 14 bolt rear axle. Both of them used the 9 1/4" front axle if they were 4X4. K2500 came with either 3.73's or 4.10's. If you haul heavy with much frequency, then the 4.10's will be your friend. Otherwise they'll eat you alive on the highway if you drive 70 or more. Mine with 4.10's would get 17-18 driving 68 MPH, bumped it up to 75 and only got 14. Also if you have hills to deal with, the 4.10's would be nice.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Also if you have hills to deal with, the 4.10's would be nice.

Or if you do a few mods, you won't be "ah-fear-ddd" of them hills, may want to get a good start going up side of a mountain to sustain 70-75 with a load, 60-65 up any grade with mine including "Fancy Gap Pass" in Va has yet to be a problem. FGP http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I77_VA_Fancy_Gap_Photos.html isn't one of the biggest ones to climb but will test the health of your 6.5, those that have driven it know it is one that will identify any weaknesses in your power train up one side, and braking ability down the other.

Here is what that piece of road looks like when a vehicle isn't up to par http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1188824/traffic_jam_of_the_century/

 

[Detroit Dan]

I can't believe what you are getting out of a 3:73 gear. I have had everything from 3:08 up to 4:10, and I don't ever want to go back to 3:73s. Course, I don't run stock size tires, but all I know is I swapped a set of 1/2 ton 3:08s out for a set of 3/4 ton 3:73s and it was a turd. In the winter with 265/75s it was just bearable, but in the summer with 35/12.50s it was gutless. And this was with a fresh 350 built and cammed for torque, th350. Next truck was an near identical K20 with 4:10s, tired old 305, th400 and same size tires. Those 4:10s made a world of difference. I've even thought about changing to 4:56 with my 97, because my 255/85s eat up a TON of power when towing up the hills. I don't want to downsize tires, so it's either more gear or intercooler and GL-4.
I've been a lover of 4:10s for a long time. I don't care about highway driving, I don't do it much. And that's what OD is for.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Not only am I getting the power out of the 3:73, but most of the time I'm in OD when I tow I have the factory sized 265x75sX16 load range E's on it, North Maine, GMCTD, RATDOC have ridden in it and can attest to it nimbleness, Pepperridge has seen it in action as well, 3:73 for me is perfect blend of towing grunt and economy, my 90 GMC 4.3 V-6 with 3:08 gasser is nimble not towing, but you have to run in 4th out of OD when towing anything with weight or wind resistance, but then 24mpg goes to 11-12

 

[North Maine]

TDs truck hauls ass. Period.

 

[Detroit Dan]

I found a diesel 94 k2500 Suburban online. Emailed the owner to ask him about it, and ask where he came up with his numbers, because in the ad it says it will tow or haul 12,000 lbs. He wrote back and says it has a class 5 hitch (yeah right, it's probably a V5 which is a class 3). He thinks his towing capacity is 10,000 straight, and 12,000 with a weight-distributing hitch. He said Ican call the dealer to get the factory specs for towing. How can I tell him he's wrong without being a dink about it? Oh, yeah, it's got 3:73s which he says give it loads of power for towing.
I don't think I want to buy the truck, it's real pretty blue and silver, but it's got blue cloth which I dont like, plus tan front seats because they replaced them. I'd have to spend some money to get the dual thermostat setup in it, for one thing. It has 169k on the truck and 75k on the motor. Lots of new stuff, batteries, alternator, exhaust and tires. He's asking $3500 which seems like a good price. Just don't know if it would be happy with my camper. I mean, my 97 with a straight pipe and 4:10 struggles on hills, hows a stock 3:73 truck going to be?

 

[Pillow]

Buy it. If the truck is in good shape at that price you cannot go wrong.

You can fix the interior whenever you get around to it... If it even matters that it matches?

Our Suburban is blue and gray ext with blue interior with gray seats and trim. I think it looks sharp... The only thing better would be black and tan, but good luck finding that combo.

Good luck in your search!