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Slow bleed lifters

Twisted Steel Performance

Twisted Steel Performance

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
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Pauline, SC
Just wondering if anyone has used "slow bleed" lifters in these motors ?

I have used them in the past in hot gasser builds and race motors, I know they are a common thing and not really new but they have come a long way in the past few years...

I have a set on the way, they aren't cheap, so I doubt anyone has used a set in these motors. I'll post a link so those that may not know about them can learn if they want to...

The short version is they are a HD very close tolerance lifter that acts like a mechanical lifter but is still hydraulic... They allow full cam lift throughout the rpm band without loosing lift from the lifter bleeding down during the lifting motion and provides oil just like a normal lifter would...

The ones I purchased have a .012" hole that feeds pressurized oil directly to the needle bearings, the stock type depend on oil splash to the roller...

And in case ya didn't know, the 7.3 powerstroke uses the same lifter our motors do.....

Lifter Basics – Topline Automotive

toplineauto.com toplineauto.com
 
I used Rhodes lifters in a 2.3 ltr 4 banger turbo with a extreme N/A bumpstick and lots of overlap, it ran like a bat out of hell but heat generated by the excessive unburnt fuel would destroy the exhaust manifolds and turbo, costly but short lived fun.
 
Interesting commentary:

"“S” or Slow Design: . . . The only draw back of this type of lifter is that if the valve train should “Float” because of reaching a higher RPM than the valve springs can handle these lifters will try to take up the excessive clearance causing the valve to hang open resulting in a loss of power."

Am not sure whether this applies to the relatively slower turning diesel. And at the same time Navistar (through Ford) did provide warnings about valve floating on the 7.3. Scenario was that an exhaust brake could cause the valves to float, and IIRC were an outright exclusion for warranty coverage. Actually, Ford initially stated the exhaust brake restriction without explanation, and later it came out that the concern was valve floating. Sure, there are plenty of 7.3 folks whom ignored this and successfully use exhaust brakes, but Ford stood by this warning. Possibly related, the 7.3 crowd has also learned that the OE valve springs are relatively weak and a set of stronger springs is a popular upgrade even when keeping the motor at OE power levels.

Am certainly not smart enough to know whether any of this applies to the 6.5 and am just putting it out there. But from the product description, it does look like something to consider as part of the build.
 
I've never used them personally, but I've seen several 7.3s built with Johnson lifters that had great results. I didn't know they interchanged with 6.5 lifters though 🤔... one more item to add to the parts list. 🤑
 
I’ve never used them, not famiIiar. I always attributed valve smackin to weak springs.

I was planning on the springs you found. Care to teach class about thise new springs and old lifters? I can see how stiffer springs and weak lifters can allow valves to not open fully. I haven’t opened up my lifters yet to clean and inspect yet. So might need new ones. How do you determine new stock vs “R” vs “S” is better? As in when do you need them for longevity and when do you want them for power loss?
 
@Will L. , I didn't "find" those springs, I spent time and dollars working with the manufacture so they have a unlisted part number so to speak...

And I'm not a teacher but I'll do my best...

The "bleed down" comes from lack of fit/ worn / high mile , lifter piston to bore fit plane and simple, the oil gets squeezed past the piston and allows bleed down, the higher the clearance the less the piston is able to hold the correct lift... stock lifters are no where near as tightly manufactured as upper end / purpose built lifters are, the manufacturing process adds a LOT of cost...

The 3 choices are stock, race, slow bleed....

R is for race are for when you have long duration cams, they don't idle well, aren't as crisp off idle, but the lifter internals are different so that at low rpm's they WILL bleed of fast but in the upper rpm's they don't, thus taking away some duration and lift in the lower rpm range making for a more manageable motor...

S is for slow bleed, the piston to bore tolerance is LESS THAN 0.000120" , that is very little room for oil to squeeze by the piston, thus they give full lift all the time, they act like a solid but aren't and the adjustment is the same as any hyd roller. These like heavy spring rates.

The SE lifter, what I purchased, ( copied from the web site )
Hylift Johnson has a patented Direct Shot® Bearing Oil injection system as an option to all of our roller Lifters. Our system utilizes a proprietary oil band system that prevents debris from clogging up the oil supply hole. Extreme engine testing has shown that our system has improved durability by as much as 300%. This is a .012" hole drilled at a angle that routes pressurized oil directly to the roller needle bearings..

And I won't be using my brand of springs in the P motor, I will not be using the rotator's either... below is a pic of the springs I have ready... All this for me is headed towards a billet cam that is in the works...

These are a common thing in a lot circles, ford powerstroke folks have been using them for some time , maybe 6.x people will think out of the box at some point...

005.JPG
 
Thanks for sharing this info. I didn't like that the stock lifters were an achilles heal in these things. Love that the Johnson lifters use a true snap ring for retaining the piston. And they're made right in my home state, cool!
 
Will L. said:
I have wondered that myself.
Dang it Chris you have me thinking
Click to expand...


Well consider the 7.3 powerstroke.... do they make the same racket ? The IP & most systems are very close to each other, other than the firing order, why is the 6.x sound like it's falling apart.

Even tho the lifters are the same, I doubt they are made by the same company but it's possible, there are some differences in pistons, rods, stroke, etc but why do ours sound like a bucket of marbles??

I do know from experience if you warm the motor up, shut it down and remove the valve covers the rockers are all loose, I don't think they should be... and I don't have a way of measuring how much lift is bleeding off while running, I'd like to know tho....
 
I expected a descent price tag- that comes across pretty fair for what it would take to make them that accurate.

I was trying to find a downside other than cost to give a balanced decision even before knowing price. I come up pretty empty other than it wouldn’t be as forgiving if there was light piston to valve contact. But anything more than the softest touch would do damage anyways, and would normally happen @ high rpm where good stock lifters wouldn’t give fast enough anyways.

What do you guys think? Anything I am missing?

Chris, I know oil pressure loss through lifter to block clearance is something to watch so was thinking of build up and burnish down to perfect clearance. But also was thinking of doing the friction modifier coating there instead on the lifter body.
No I haven’t measured my block yet for that...

I have some theories in our rattle but just that- theory
Valve train like mentioned. Unbalanced cylinder burn makes it way worse- like when my piston got chewed up by the glowplug- almost rod knock like. Or when ya take out old injectors and rebuild them, it gets better. Then take them out and balance them after that and it gets even better. Gear drive makes it a little better than timing chain is. The way our rocker arms are on a pipe vs ford 7.3 is like a musical instrument. I really wish we had stud mount rockers and not about the sound. Ever hit an empty block with dead blow and do same to 6.9? Ours sounds more hollow for some reason. Last is syllable count: Ford- just drops noice quickly vs CHEVROLET- it has more syllables and simply makes more noise! Haha
 
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