Rebuilding A 6.5 Diesel First Time Need Help

[DZZ71]

The stress in that area is severe. The broken bolt is still visible in the pix.
The first 1/4 inch approx of the hole has no threads and the Knurled portion of the bolt goes in there.

This setup gives the bolt a very tight fit and assures the best alignment and minimal starter movement.

This sort of break is caused by leaving the tail bracket off the starter. The starter gets to wiggling around and flexes the bolts until they fatigue and then break.

The bolts will break right at the point where the knurl and the threads join. I have seen many broken ones

Another cause can be from an engine that blew a head gasket and hydro locked.
Someone gives the starter a whizzz and BANG the engine comes up hard and the starter falls on the ground.

In many cases one bolt will break and the starter will simply kick out of the ring gear. Some times both bolts break and the starter falls out on the torsion bar "CLUNK"

AND in some cases the corner of the block breaks out like this one did.

Hard to tell exactly what happened but it was for sure related to that broken bolt.


MGW

Thats for the great info MGW,I was told the failure on this engine was a snapped engine crank. I have one of the old conecting rods with damage to it from the busted crank. Im going to get that broken stud out and see what it looks like from there or if i could possiobly build a secondary bracket to hold the starter better im sure there is somthin i can do .I just really want to use this block since i bought it with most of the internals built to go in it. And yes i know no one has to tell me its probley going to fail but if i can get a couple years out of it im happy. I just really dont wanna throw $900 into the metal bin...... Will keep you guys up dated, my buddy and i are going to pull the engine out of the truck tonight. I will try get some pics of Chrisk1500's old block and what ever he destroyed.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

The starters are installed with a "Tail" bracket that bolts to the side of the block right ahead of the starter.

This bracket is not an addition to, but rather a must have. Many folks remove the brackets because its not easy for some to get to.

The only way to easily remove the starter wiring and the bracket is to remove the RH front tire/wheel and then the rubber weather flap in the inner fender.

There is now great access to the starter wiring connections as well as the tail bracket.

You can try removing the broken bolt thats left and tap the hole fully through and install a longer bolt along with the tail bracket.

Even with the tail bracket, I would be very nervous about that block.

If you stick a lot of time and $$$$ in the build and then the corner snaps off entirely the block/engine is a doorstop.

I would at this point salvage all the good parts and find another block to build.

I just hate to see you spend time and $$$$ and end up wasting it.


best

MGW

 

[fonecop1]

You could also go back to the guy you got it from and tell him the general consensus is that with the broken starter hole that block is a risk to build. Maybe the guy would adjust the price for the parts you can use, but it sounds like most of the worth was in the machining that was done to the block. MGW is right that bracket is a must have, many here have learned that the same way the previous owner of your block did.

 

[chrisk1500]

I will try get some pics of Chrisk1500's old block and what ever he destroyed.

That would be great!

Like I said before, I am sure that the #8 con rod will be sticking out the side of the block....

 

[DZZ71]

Well we dident get the engine out. Everything was done accept a couple bell housing bolts and the torque converter bolts and that engine wouldent budge. Siezed right tight, so how does a guy get around this? I don't feel like pulling the engine and trannie at the same time but if it has to be done i guess i gotta do it. Im not sure weather or not the torque converter will slide off the input shaft while still bolted to the engine never ran into this problem before.

 

[chrisk1500]

Torque converter should pull off of the trans - you will need to pull the front rad support and grille to get enough front clearance for the engine to slide forward.

You can get the other bellhousing bolts from under the truck....

 

[Turbine Doc]

Guys I'm going to run this by some folks I know, to see if a product I've used for years mite work here http://www.belzona.com/engines_casings.aspx I used it in the USN on some marine products.

I just introduced it to the locomotive Diesel world, turned a $320K engine replacement into a $900 in place repair, that locomotive has been pulling freight for 3 months now.

Belzona is industrial grade metal epoxy mega strong JB Weld if you will, comes in different strengths one such strength requires a diamond tipped cutter to machine it after it's set up.

DZZ PM me your email address and we can talk some more.

 

[Acesneights1]

Torque converter should pull off of the trans - you will need to pull the front rad support and grille to get enough front clearance for the engine to slide forward.

You can get the other bellhousing bolts from under the truck....

Be careful doing that. You must do it very gentlty and keep them perectly straight. If you cock it while pulling them apart you can damage the transmission pmup. I learned the hard way years ago. Not saying it can't be done, just saying use extreme caution. I would not use that block. You could Find a J series 6.2 block and use the stuff from the 6.5s you have. They re cheap enough. Someone did that on a nice build recently but can't remember who

 

[Turbine Doc]

Several 6.2 lowers with 6.5 uppers out there, and certainly as good a way as any to skin this problem, even more 6.2 blocks around than 6.5 blocks. Only negative with most of those is the 2 piece rear main most used , but that was how all engines were for years not really a big deal there just something to be aware of. The LSR that Bill took to Bonneville was a 6.2/6.5 hybrid, as is Slim Shadys, and Ted's 635 truck

The belzona repair/lock stitch repairs offered up is something we are going to need start thinking about, especially with things like "cash for clunkers" thinning out the pool of viable candidates to be rebuilt, we are going to need to start to look at non traditional repairs if we want to keep the 6.5 populations running. Reason I wanted PM was to have closer look at pictures & possibly more pictures to make better informed go/no go call on this block.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Looks like some good stuff.

I would venture this.

If the original bolt hole is tapped on through and most blocks are drilled though anyway, then clean and prep the broken area per the makers instructions.

I personally would install a couple roll pins into each side of the break to act as anchors and then repair. I would use the proper size bolt for the hole and lightly grease it to keep the product from sticking to the bolt then build up the area back to full thickness.

The manufacture of the product likely has special procedures to get maximum strength.

The fact that the bolt hole still has an area that is still intact will help greatly in supporting the repaired area.

I am still nervous about spending time and $$$$$$$$$ on that block but, the patch may work fine.


MGW

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Here is another way that this block could be salvaged and have a reliable repair.

Set the block up in the mill (Bridgeport) and cut the area that the starter sits on down exactly 1/4 inch

Inlay a piece of cold rolled steel into the machined area and fasten in with two countersunk allen screws.

The holes for the starter will need to be transfered to the spacer plate exactly and then the holes in the plate drill to exact bolt size.

This will strengthen the area and take almost all the load off the damaged bolt hole.

Another option would be to make a "Bastard" starter nose housing by cutting it in the mill by 1/4 inch and then making the steel spacer and fastening it to the block as described above.

If this block were my only option and it has no other issues, I would machine the block and install the steel reinforcing plate.

There is plenty of room there to work with and the repair would be pretty much "Bullet proof"

As the block is bare now, it will be easy to handle and to get into a machine.

If you "Patch" it up and it fails later on in the rig the amount of work then becomes extreme, and not repairable in the truck.

The modified housing is as good but you would have to reuse that nose cone any time the starter fails.


I would machine the block, install the plate and then if you like do the patch with the "JB Weld" type stuff.

 

[DZZ71]

Well got the engine out and pretty much apart. Chris did alot more damage then i though he did. The crank was snaped in 2 spots and the block is completly F***ed im quite impressed actually. I should have the rest of it apart tomarrow. We worked on it form 5pm-2am. From what i see on this block i for sure don't want to put my other one in unless i LOCK N STITCH it. I called there number today and left a message and got no reply. Does anyone here know if i can get lock and stock in alberta?? I want to start rebuilding my new engine ASAP.

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[DZZ71]

 

[DZZ71]

 

[DZZ71]

 

[DZZ71]

 

[North Maine]

whoa.

 

[dragogt]

Holy crap, what happened to make it lock up?

 

[Acesneights1]

Can't you weld it ???
:rofl:
Damn...That is seriuos carnage. Should sticky that one...

 

[chrisk1500]

Wow! I killed that engine...LOL!

That explains why the engine sounded so loud and then instantly just shut off....

Another reason to get a better crankshaft....