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New Reflash...First Impressions and Questions

HighSierra86

Active Member
Messages
765
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45
Location
Northwest CT
Hey guys, just installed Heath's tow tune in my 96' after wanting to do so for years. I ran the GL4 program in my 95 and was very happy with it. Cant say the same with this reflash however.

Ive had it in the truck for several days now using it around town, on the highway, both unloaded, and towing our Bobcat skid steer. First thing I noticed is how nice the extended glow time is. Truck starts much easier with almost zero smoke "puff". The dead pedal is gone and the engine pulls much smoother down low.

Now my biggest complaint is the smoke. With and empty truck or trailer, as soon as the truck lugs down, or before the boost catches up, I find myself dumping alot of smoke out the tailpipe. And im not talking a haze, but rather a solid cloud that will gradually clear up. Granted the truck is a 5 speed manual, there is a big loss of boost between shifts. But trying to drive the truck without creating clouds of soot becomes quite the challenge. Put a loaded trailer behind the truck and this thing smokes like a friggen freight train. It really looks bad. I looks like im driving an old nutless n/a diesel again. Now im no tree hugger, and dont mind a little smoke, but its stuff like this that gives diesel a bad name.

Other thing I noticed is that my coolant temps were easily 20-25 deg hotter when towing. Ive never had a problem or even had to worry about this before, but now I find myself having to drive with a very close eye on the guage. I was assured that the tune had nothing to do with this but im not buying that at all. EGT's are up a bit as well, but that was expected. And from a seat of the pants dyno, I dont think I gained much towing power. So in a nutshell Im not that impressed.

I called and spoke to Bill about my concerns and he was very helpful as unsual. He offered for me to send it back for them to tweak it until I was happy. First thing he had suggested was that I raise my boost pressures. I have been running a max of about 11psi which he wanted me to increase to 14. Idea behind that made sence being that they designed the tune based around that number. He checked everything over and didnt notice anything else out of the ordinary. Only other suggestion was that my tired old gm5 had worn compressor blades making it too slow to build boost like it should. I have taken a picture and emailed it to him awaiting a reply. I have since raised the boost pressures with little change.

At this point in time, I am really leaning towards returning the computer and putting my stock one back in. The truck always did what I needed it to do with almost zero smoke. I really havent seen enough of a gain to make the reflash worth it so far. Id rather spend the money on some brake upgrades. The old girl can pull, but cant stop!

Just to make it clear, Im not here to give a bad name to anyone or their products. Bill has been very helpful and I will continue to work with him to try and figure this out. I have always been very happy with his service and his products. What im trying to gain here is some input from members and see what you guys think. Thanks

-Nick
 
Have you done a fuel pressure test yet? Put a guage on it and drive it and make sure you are holding fuel pressure under load. If it drops fuel pressure it will smoke heavily as well.
 
Have you done a fuel pressure test yet? Put a guage on it and drive it and make sure you are holding fuel pressure under load. If it drops fuel pressure it will smoke heavily as well.

I have an in-cab pressure guage, Walbro FRC-10. 14-15psi at idle 7-9 psi wide open throttle. No fuel shortage at all.

-Nick
 
Sounds like fuel is good or too much.....Doesn't black smoke mean too much fuel?

Sounds like a Boost Issue....GM5 Not keeping up = Black smoke......Correct?

Wouldn't more Boost be needed to handle all that black smoke (Fuel)....which would lower EGT's (Temp in general) = Cooler, more boost (Faster) and better Fuel to boost ratio?

Just askin'
 
Sounds like fuel is good or too much.....Doesn't black smoke mean too much fuel?

Sounds like a Boost Issue....GM5 Not keeping up = Black smoke......Correct?

Wouldn't more Boost be needed to handle all that black smoke (Fuel)....which would lower EGT's (Temp in general) = Cooler, more boost (Faster) and better Fuel to boost ratio?

Just askin'

Black smoke would be un-burnt fuel. Never really had an issue with it in the past. Seems to me the tune is allowing way more fuel than what is needed...or like you say the boost isnt there to aid in the combustion of the fuel. Typically black smoke will be seen hand in hand with higher EGT's.

-Nick
 
Black smoke would be un-burnt fuel. Never really had an issue with it in the past. Seems to me the tune is allowing way more fuel than what is needed...or like you say the boost isnt there to aid in the combustion of the fuel. Typically black smoke will be seen hand in hand with higher EGT's.

-Nick


To bad you don't have a Holset or a A Team to experiment with......At least that would clarify if it is a Boost issue with out guessing.
 
Maybe it's time to replace that worn out turbo with something better, should really help in the towing department

I'm sure Heath will try to sell you a gm turbo for a $1000
 
I don't know anything about the tune, but I do know that the GM turbos are a big hold back for these motors, a HX35,HX40,ATT, any of these would be a BIG improvement over a GM unit. I wouldn't try and rebuild or replace with a GM at all, I don't know what you paid for the tune, but a known good turbo would help I am sure and maybe improve everything with the tune.. I wouldn't go with a KO Holset either, just me tho...
 
Black smoke can be to much fuel, or it can be fueling to late or to low of pressure. Low injection pressure iwll give off alot of black smoke as teh fuel will not atomize and burn very well.
 
Nick, you still have the stock vacuum system on it, right? Maybe try putting a 'helper spring' on the wastegate arm with enough tension to raise your boost when the RPMs are low. It won't cost anything, and it might tell us a lot.

Depending on the amount of tension you put on it, it shouldn't affect your top boost, but will set a 'floor' preventing your boost from dropping to zero (not great for mileage, but good for EGTs). A bunch of guys have used a screen-door spring quite effectively.

Jim
 
Nick, you still have the stock vacuum system on it, right? Maybe try putting a 'helper spring' on the wastegate arm with enough tension to raise your boost when the RPMs are low. It won't cost anything, and it might tell us a lot.

Depending on the amount of tension you put on it, it shouldn't affect your top boost, but will set a 'floor' preventing your boost from dropping to zero (not great for mileage, but good for EGTs). A bunch of guys have used a screen-door spring quite effectively.

Jim
if not a helper spring, Tie it shut and see if that helps. I got quite a bit of smoke with my A T T turbo and the root cause was a leak at the crossover pipe donut gasket on the drivers side. Next to no smoke now unless loaded and taking off hard from a stop
 
TM is in sig, Nick mentioned he turned up the boost.

Do as Ed said and check for exh leaks. I also had a donut go and the truck was a dog.

One other thought, did the truck sit for awhile? Rodents may have built a nest in the intake somewhere.
 
Turbomaster is correct. I ditched the vac system a long time ago.

I have a spare gm4 that I could throw on there and try to see if it makes any difference or not. One thing is for sure, I wont be buying or rebuilding a gmx turbo for a replacement if that is the problem. Ive been eyeing a holset for some years now, but ill spring the extra cash for a real one when the time comes. The tune cost me enough as of right now though, so that will have to wait. Unless of course this turbo really is shot :rolleyes:

Good call on the exhaust leaks. Ill check my crossover for anything by the donuts. I know the pipe is good but it could have developed a leak at a joint.

Truck deffinetly hasnt been sitting. Its put to work every day.

My problem is that this truck didnt smoke before the tune. Only when you really lugged the motor down, and then it was more of a haze rather than a cloud. If there was a problem with boost/exhaust/timing I would have expected it to show with the truck in stock form as well.

Thanks for all the replies and ideas guys!

-Nick
 
Not sure what version of a towing tune you got. I had the GLE (towing) flash conversion early 2010 before Bill was doing the tunes personally. Added the gauge kit, TM and AFE filter at the same time. Prior to that, the truck was still pretty much OEM save for an upgraded exhaust (GM-5; Stock LP and no FTB). Difference was outstanding and I didn't notice smoke either. Our trucks are the same year but a little different though

As for putting on a larger turbo, that GLE Tune didn't bring out the best in the ATT but a reflash did so keep that in mind.

I've since rebuilt the GM-5 and reflashed yet again to an economy tune. Worked better for me although I missed the advantages of the larger compressor but rarely needed it.

I'm confident you'll be able to sort it out with Bill.
 
As for putting on a larger turbo, that GLE Tune didn't bring out the best in the ATT but a reflash did so keep that in mind.

I've since rebuilt the GM-5 and reflashed yet again to an economy tune. Worked better for me although I missed the advantages of the larger compressor but rarely needed it.

I'm confident you'll be able to sort it out with Bill.

Maybe im missing something.....can you explain the ATT comment? Did you switch to the GL4 as opposed to the GLE with the turbo?

-Nick
 
Happy to explain as best I can. PM sent with Phone Number to permit clearer communication. For the rest of the group, writing will have to suffice. I hope I get this correct as to meaning and intent.

GLE tune was not customized for the user like Bill can do now and was, therefore, optimal for the truck with 4L80 trans, GM-5 etc. When I swapped in the ATT the "Oh Wow I got an ATT" thrill didn't really manifest itself (expectation management?) but had read of the need for a specific tune to get the most of it. By that time, Bill was doing the tunes in-house and he had experimented with a few ATT specific tunes so he build one for me based off one he'd done for TurbineDoc with some driver specifics involved. That one performed very well so while it wasn't a GL4 so much, it was a vast improvements. Patrick (Walking J) took a ride in my truck and really liked it too. I ran that tune for about a year with the ATT and the GM-5 back and forth and had a lot of fun as it worked very well for both. I later re-flashed again for more of an economy tune and it pretty much neutered both Turbo's but I did see better MPG's. If I went back to stock tires and ride height, I'm sure there would be further MPG gains.
 
Well, The ATT can use the stock tune with no problems, and getting the best out of it does take a good tune. Some tuners don't like the ATT, that being said, the ATT that Paul has had some damage done to it by the previous owner and I fixed it but not sure if the fix affected any of the properties. Just to clear it up a little.

The best tune I ran in my ATT was the tune made by KOJO. Didn't smoke much at all ever. Not even going through Fancy Gap. And I got between 18 and 19 mpg consistently on the highway. Just my humble observation.
 
The reason it smokes is likely lots of timing advance, not only can it cause lots of smoke but preignition. Combine that with lots of fueling available at low RPMs and it will likley smoke if you dont have the turbo spooled. With a larger turbo there is a big tradeoff you have to consider in timing advance, and max fuel at low RPMs.

I assume that a KOKO was run when installing the PCM to reset the TDCO.

If your fuel pressure to the IP inlet is actually 15psi, that will help make smoke as well, you really want that more like 12psi at IP to let it operate like it would normally. Although there should be more than 1psi drop across the FFM from the 16psi FRC-10. Combine high fuel pressure with high advance and high commanded fueling.

The DS4 is capable of putting out a lot more fuel at earlier RPMs than a DB2 too, so we can make more smoke if programmed in.
 
The reason it smokes is likely lots of timing advance, not only can it cause lots of smoke but preignition. Combine that with lots of fueling available at low RPMs and it will likley smoke if you dont have the turbo spooled. With a larger turbo there is a big tradeoff you have to consider in timing advance, and max fuel at low RPMs.

I assume that a KOKO was run when installing the PCM to reset the TDCO.

If your fuel pressure to the IP inlet is actually 15psi, that will help make smoke as well, you really want that more like 12psi at IP to let it operate like it would normally. Although there should be more than 1psi drop across the FFM from the 16psi FRC-10. Combine high fuel pressure with high advance and high commanded fueling.

The DS4 is capable of putting out a lot more fuel at earlier RPMs than a DB2 too, so we can make more smoke if programmed in.

My IP inlet pressure is right about 14psi at idle. Driving pressures are normally in the 9-12 range however.

Do you think it would be worth trying to retard the timing a bit? And if so does this have to be done with the Tech II or can I just wing it by moving the pump.

Maybe ill just ditch the ds4 all together for the db2. Then all I have to do is turn the screw to the desired position :hihi:

Thanks for all the help understanding this guys

-Nick
 
Well, The ATT can use the stock tune with no problems, and getting the best out of it does take a good tune. Some tuners don't like the ATT, that being said, the ATT that Paul has had some damage done to it by the previous owner and I fixed it but not sure if the fix affected any of the properties. Just to clear it up a little.

The best tune I ran in my ATT was the tune made by KOJO. Didn't smoke much at all ever. Not even going through Fancy Gap. And I got between 18 and 19 mpg consistently on the highway. Just my humble observation.

I was under the impression that while you can use a stock tune, setting the TDC to -1.94 is highly recomended with the ATT, especially in regards to the smoke issue.

-Nick
 
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