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New Diesel Suburban and Tahoe, Coming Soon.

WarWagon

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Well IMO it will take the crown from both the Olds 5.7 and the Detroit 6.2 6.5 as far as a value engineered throwaway engine. 150K belt life to the oil pump and "remove transmission" is presented as "BFD" for service. At least it isn't "remove the cab/body". And you thought a water pump was a PIA on a 6.5, worse on a Duramax V8, and the chains (chains don't belong in a diesel driving a HPCR pump) in the back will be fun and expensive to service.

Oh wait! We the new engineers at GM Diesel can do worse than a chain!!! :facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm: I guess the ignorant "new" engineers missed how much fun timing belts were in the 1980's $hit box cars like the Ford Escort or VW diesels. Save time and just cut the bolts on a Ford Escort after the car stopped in an intersection from a broken belt. Spare me the belt technology has improved: it's still a life limiting component with a throwaway the engine if the belt failed. Let me guess $80,000+ SUV for a life of 150K before the engine is in need of major service. Oh yeah, emissions and injectors also have a fixed life with a big bill to replace. I will give them credit for not using a CP4.

I admit the bar ain't high for diesel reliability with GM's hand in the Ecodiesel design that was a zero (Gernade) or hero engine. But Warwagon the belt is rated for 150K life!!! Like a SNAP! I will sit back and watch the problems start to show up from belts that broke early, under warranty, and take time to fix. No, not remove transmission: it's remove scrap-metal and drop in new engine.

A timing belt is a life limiting item that adds TCO and reduces resale value. Buying a used one will be all like: "Have you replaced the G.D. $$$$ oil pump drive belt?" I can see the AD on CL now: "I will deliver the used GM SUV on a trailer and leave you the trailer so I don't risk starting it again and having the oil pump drive belt go SNAP! again."

 
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JayTheCPA

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I'll pass.

GM made good on their threat to move the rear over to IRS.

Have not seen specs on payload yet. If they are sticking with the current 14K# combined rating, then Ford will continue to eat GM's lunch in the towing community.

Ford's gasser V6 puts out the same power as what the Ho / Burb diesel will likely deliver. GM will probably get an advantage with miles per gallon, but if the diesel is a significant price premium over Ford's gasser, that edge will get lost. Especially if the carrying capacity remains lower than Ford's SUV.

Truly tragic part is that there was an opportunity to really spank the competition, and from my perspective GM decided to mimic the competition :(
 

THEFERMANATOR

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The 3l diesel is supposed to be in the same category towing wise as the 6.2l V8, but heat management is what is currently holding it back. Part of how they're getting such high MPG's is by putting so much under the hood to retain heat in the emissions equipment, as well as reduce the amount of time it takes to get them up to temp, but this has turned into a double edge sword as that heat is what limits it's towing capacity.

The belt driven oil pump worries me, but I've been told this is common in many GM engines now, and they're all holding up very well. So it's NOT a throw away engine, but it does have extra maintence they could have not required. Chain drives are fine. Mercedes has used them for decades now with virtually no problems.

Other than the belt driven, variable displacement oil pump, it seems like a solid engine. At least they designed the engine so it can be replaced in the vehicle with only backing the trans up a few inches on dowels.
 

WarWagon

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Added heat over a gas engine and this belt was proven on a gas engine so let's use the same tooling as a gas engine... How did that work out in the past? It put Lemon Laws on the books.

The cooling system complexity is a discussion on it's own. All aluminum may eliminate the AL heads on cast iron expansion rate differences that slide on gaskets. However "... even in the future Nothing Works!" More valves to fail and in higher heat. GM may need to bring the Blazer name back because a cooling system failure out here in AZ typically burns the rig to the ground.

End of the the day I expect more from a diesel in a pickup or Large SUV than a throwaway car. GM leading the way in eliminating the 100k power train warranty says a lot about the direction of value engineering GM is taking. The option cost vs. a Cummins is also of note. Some buyers may want a lower cost.
 

BIGR

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Yea, to me the deal breaker on the 3.0 diesel would be knowing that a belt would need to be replaced at 150,000 miles on a vehicle that costed anywhere from 50,000 to 70,000 or more. One would expect to be able to just drive it and not have any issues under 200,000 to 300,000 miles, it being a diesel right? Heck I bet the 5.3 or 6.2 gas motor could reach 200,000 miles with not a single hiccup. Those gas motors are out there with 200,000 plus miles and still running.

Sorry GM, I would want to put my money elsewhere such as on a new truck if I could afford a such a high dollar vehicle. Without a doubt there will be some soccer moms driving around in a Tahoe or Burb with the 3.0 diesel. Traveling business men will be trying them out for the fuel mileage maybe, racking up lots of miles in a hurry thinking they have a bullet proof SUV with a tough diesel engine. Let them try them out and be the test guinea pigs for GM.
 

1999gmc

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Heck I bet the 5.3 or 6.2 gas motor could reach 200,000 miles with not a single hiccup. Those gas motors are out there with 200,000 plus miles and still running.
And you would be correct. Up to 200,000 on my 07 5.3L all that was done was oil changes, air filters, spark plugs and trans service at (100K, 200K). Just before 300K it needed and alternator and evap solenoid. It now has 310K and I need to do spark plugs and trans service again. I've got a slow leak at rack and pinion and looks like rear main seal also. PS needs to be topped off about every 10K miles, so very slow leak, but it does look wet enough to almost bead up. My 07 has all the original drivetrain in it. I have a customer with a tahoe that has 450K on it.
 

Will L.

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Yeah, I dont get people beating up on the new gm 8 cylinder gassers. They work hard tugging that weight, getting acceptable mileage and long life.

@1999gmc
I will say dont ever let the compressor blow up- at 310,000 - I would pick a very soon month like before this summer and gift it a Brand new compressor and recharge. When the compressor blows it ruins everything and price goes from a few hundred to a couple thousand really fast. New compressor is like new engine and you’ll enjoy even better air and baby sized mpg bump from less load- maybe 0.1 mpg.

I pushed my 01 suburban 15k miles past where I knew I should have and spent 1900 more than I needed to and a tow truck.
 

jrsavoie

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In our opion Suburban body styles have been going downhill since 1992 or whenever the change was. We always liked laying the seats down and loading 4x8 stuff in the back. The shape ofbthe newer burbs has cut down on payload ever since
 

JayTheCPA

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We always liked laying the seats down and loading 4x8 stuff in the back. The shape of the newer burbs has cut down on payload ever since
That is another area where GM is following with the competition. Those electric folding seats add weight, increase complexity, eat usable cargo space, and increase the height to heft stuff into the cargo area. Tie-down rings are a casualty as well. But am sure all of this is wort it as that grocery-getter absolutely must have push-button convenience . . .
 

Will L.

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My 05 escalade still fit plywood on floor and my 37x12.50 hummer tires inside. It had manual lay down seats not power though.

As to the won’t ride good and won’t tow good because of loosing the solid axle to the independent suspension- NOPE. ive towed in solid axle jeep and 4- independant jeeps. Hummer/ hmmwv is 4-independent. They all towed better.

Follow this - if you drive and the right tire hits a deep pothole, that one tire drops and recovers without affecting the other 3. When the right rear hits the same deep pothole it drops and forces the left tire up IF the frame/body stays level. Then when the right tire comes back up, the left goes back down. Or if the left tire stays level, the frame/body HAS to move. Frame moves the Hitch moves.

On semi trailers the cheap ones have very little suspension, Next up is tanduem suspension. Then better is independent leaf. Better is air ride. When electronics like stuff used in theater, movie, concert production is moved- the major companies like the the biggest and best PRG world wide, Only use air ride because it stops damage to millions of dollars of electronic equipment. When the insane level stuff gets moved around- the trailers used are all wheel independent air ride. When I built bomb disposal trucks and trailers for the gubmint in my truck equipment shop- ONLY all wheel independent sir ride was used.

the only thing better is the electromagnetic suppression systems that are insane priced.

I own a hummer for near 2 decades now. 4wheel independent has its limits off road. Articulation for extreme rock crawling. But unless the bump in the road you hit is over 24” inches...

basically look at the suspension travel. Up to that level the independent will stomp solid axle.
 

jrsavoie

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My 05 escalade still fit plywood on floor and my 37x12.50 hummer tires inside. It had manual lay down seats not power though.

As to the won’t ride good and won’t tow good because of loosing the solid axle to the independent suspension- NOPE. ive towed in solid axle jeep and 4- independant jeeps. Hummer/ hmmwv is 4-independent. They all towed better.

Follow this - if you drive and the right tire hits a deep pothole, that one tire drops and recovers without affecting the other 3. When the right rear hits the same deep pothole it drops and forces the left tire up IF the frame/body stays level. Then when the right tire comes back up, the left goes back down. Or if the left tire stays level, the frame/body HAS to move. Frame moves the Hitch moves.

On semi trailers the cheap ones have very little suspension, Next up is tanduem suspension. Then better is independent leaf. Better is air ride. When electronics like stuff used in theater, movie, concert production is moved- the major companies like the the biggest and best PRG world wide, Only use air ride because it stops damage to millions of dollars of electronic equipment. When the insane level stuff gets moved around- the trailers used are all wheel independent air ride. When I built bomb disposal trucks and trailers for the gubmint in my truck equipment shop- ONLY all wheel independent sir ride was used.

the only thing better is the electromagnetic suppression systems that are insane priced.

I own a hummer for near 2 decades now. 4wheel independent has its limits off road. Articulation for extreme rock crawling. But unless the bump in the road you hit is over 24” inches...

basically look at the suspension travel. Up to that level the independent will stomp solid axle.
. my problem is with how high 4x8 sheets can be stacked. You could stack them almost all the way to the roof on the old 1989
 

Will L.

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If you promise to not tell my wife, I would admit to 30 sheets of 3/4 cdx in hers.

Every since I carried the complete ‘99 van 6.5 engine minus the fan in the back of her suburban from Phoenix to here and oil stained the carpet and back of the back row seat, she wasn’t happy with me using HER ‘car’ as if it were MY old pickup! Haha. Thankfully the diesel and oil smell came out right away!

she was there for the tires, so that one is in the clear.
 

Will L.

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Vegas driving rules. All gas pedal, no brake pedal! Go Knights Go! Haha
Did I mention my first at fault car wreck ever was when I totaled her escalade?

About 4 weeks after moving the plywood, I’m getting on freeway onramp i followed car infront accelerating then she suddenly stopped just as Itook my foot of brake and hit the gas hard. I used the back bumper to stop the front of wife’s escalade. The grille popped uplike a trap door and took out the entire cooling stack. A/c compressor stopped from no oil and battery area toasty. Hit the magic 45% or whatever it was and the insurance company sent a check. I won the holeshot, but apparently in nascar thats not good if you are in the second row! Haha. No body hurt except my pride, which can always use a notch back.

now the wife has a 07 fj cruiser. Cant haul anything in that.
 

JayTheCPA

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Yeah, I learned about that scenario the hard way as well. Fortunately, both vehicles had the older 5 mph steel bumpers and the impact was a mere bump of the rubber sections (no damage). The first vehicle was driven by a freshly minted attorney whom was ready to show-off her lawyer powers. Fortunately, nothing came of it as the body shop probably laughed when she asked for a detail list of damages. Ever since that little bump, I wait until the driver in front is fully committed to the launch (and gone) before I take my foot off the brake.
 
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