Maybe trouble, power loss towing?

[1v6pony]

Ok I have a 1998 6.5TD with a 6in lift and 35in tires. It has a 4in exaust, My gear ratio is 4:10 ,PMD replaced, Sitting at 156,000miles.

Now here is my issue, I am pulling a trailer that weighs in apx 3,000lb's when I hit any kind of Hill 3% or more, It just looses power.
I have to drop down to like 40-45MPH , It is pushing 12 on the boost at this time and I am in 3rd gear at apx 2,000-2,500 RPM's and on a warmer day (90's) it will push 210deg+ with the heater on..

Is this normal or shoud this thing be able to pull the hill a lot better? in it's current configuration.

IF not what things do you suggest I look at?

Thanks Guys the truck is still pretty new to me.

 

[1v6pony]

Sorry forgot to Mention it is an automatic trans

 

[Turbine Doc]

You need to spend some time in the TRL http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?218-6.2-and-6.5-Technical-Reference-Library to learn about your 6.5

How does it run otherwise when off grade ? Any other mods beyond 4" exhaust what exhaust/muffler did you go with, where was replacement PMD located put back on your IP ?, 3000# is a rather light load even at grade, couple of possibilities come 1st to mind fuel starvation to IP and turbo boost issues boost at 12psi is higher IAT which is contributing to running hotter than we like to see the 6.5 at,

Copy paste the diagnostics sheet here: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?6300-6.5-Engine-Diagnostic-Troubleshooting-Checklist with your vehicle info in it to make a good diagnostic stab at it we need more information the sheet takes care of most of it.

 

[1v6pony]

Thank you, The pmd was placed higher off the IP (SS diesel upgarde), Exaust is a Diamond Eye, When I replaced the PMD they looked at the IP and is diagnosed OK. I have checked fuel at the Filter and lots comes out, also at the Test post for the OP sensor. Also Just replaced the fuel filter prior to trip, Both seemed to be OK. What should be checked for Turbo boost issues?

Thanks

 

[1v6pony]

Copy and paste this checklist into a new post, then answer all the questions by typing in your data into the (red) blanks as indicated - click in the middle of the blank, start typing.


Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). ____________________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: _1998_____
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) ___2500______
- Automatic or Standard ___Auto_______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ___156,000______
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) ___PMD,________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? ____F__________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) _80 F_________
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ___1&2______
- What fuel additives are you using? ___Diesel Kleen and 2oz or Wally world 2stroke________
- Where are you located? __Arizona___________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter __Regulary_______
- Fuel filter _Same________
- CDR Valve? __Recently_______
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at ___Do Not know__________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at __Every 4,000 Devalc_________
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at _____________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): ______________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? ___Unknown______ What type? _____________
- Injectors - last changed at ____Unknown___________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? ____Towing__________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? __Fine not towing___________
- Has this problem ever happened before? ___Every time I tow____________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. __Lift size tires____________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) _Y___ And? __None______


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? _________
1b] Does the engine crank over? ________
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? _________
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ________
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? _________
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? _________ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ________
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? ________

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ____________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? _________
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ___________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ___________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) ___ON Intake________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? _Good________
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. ___Good______
3d] PMD Make: _Grey box__________
3e] PMD Age: __4months___________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ______
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? _________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? _______
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? __________
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? _________
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? __________

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? __Boost_________
6b] Maximum boost under load? __12__________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ______No________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ___Four In EX Diamond Eye_____________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? __OEM____________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? _Dual___________
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? __NO_______
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? _No___________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? __No______
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? __NO________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

1st thing to do is get the PMD out of the engine bay and mounted in the bumper or to the skid plate. Secondly for a stock tune 12 PSI of boost is too high unless you're at 8,000-10,000 foot of elevation. At sea level you should be running around 7-8 pounds of boost as the 6.5 turbo system is designed to let teh engine ru nat 1 1/2 atmospheres of cylinder pressure regardless of elevation(boost goes up as you go up in altitude). If you are close to sea level and maintaining 12 pounds of boost I would think the PCM would defuel to keep the boost down, and I'm sure your intake air temps are up there at those kinds of boost levels. As for the overheating, I would pull the radiator out and clean it out good as well as the A/C condenser. Years of use will plug up the airflow path through them and cause em to run warmer. Also I would replace the fan clutch if it is an origanal and upgrade to the late model spin on type water pump from a 2000 model and top it off with a set of new AC DELCO T-stas from GM. That's just me though for the cooling system.

 

[1v6pony]

OK if the boost is to high, What is the root cause of this?
Also I am looking into the longer cord for the pmd, But Every time I turn around this thing is costing me lots of money, Right now I just want to see if I can get it corrected. I run typicaly without towing 3-5on the boost unless i open it up a little and then it hits 10 briefly
And I am right at 5,000 feet

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

5,000 feet should have you holding around 8-10 for boost sustained I would think, but 12 is pushing it. Have you checked it for any codes? Does the check engine light work? The best thing I could suggest is to hook a scanner up and get it to do it and see what it is seeing for boost and intake air temp on the scanner. You need to see what the PCM is seeing as well as what it is actually doing. As for the boost problem, normally they will run to low. Common causes for excessive boost are a bad boost pressure sensor, rusted wastegate that is jammed shut, or a bad wastegate solonoid.

 

[1v6pony]

Well, I do not have a scanner capable of that.

 

[Turbine Doc]

You have a 98 same as me, see if you can find a shop with a MT2500 "brick" from Snap On those are about most common diagnostic tool to be found or Matco; the GM Tech 2 is too spendy for most independent shops, dealers want about $100/hr just to scan, also look in member locator thread in the TRL I linked you to maybe somebody near you has one. Anyway find somebody with one of those for real time data collections, if you find someone but isn't real sure because of the Diesel experience have them hook up with one of us as we can walk them therough what they need to be looking 4.

A clean rad is a healthy one, as Ferm says, it takes about 3-4 hours to deep clean the rad & ac core, which is a free must do anytime coolant temps near 210F, out of curiosity what color coolant do you have in the system?

 

[1v6pony]

I have the stock Amber color, I have heard different opinions on the color to use but most say stick with what the MFG says.
I will have to have the radiator and AC core cleaned, What do you mean it is a Free must do, Don't you have to have it done at a shop?

 

[Chief915]

Ok I have a 1998 6.5TD with a 6in lift and 35in tires. It has a 4in exaust, My gear ratio is 4:10 ,PMD replaced, Sitting at 156,000miles.

Now here is my issue, I am pulling a trailer that weighs in apx 3,000lb's when I hit any kind of Hill 3% or more, It just looses power.
I have to drop down to like 40-45MPH , It is pushing 12 on the boost at this time and I am in 3rd gear at apx 2,000-2,500 RPM's and on a warmer day (90's) it will push 210deg+ with the heater on..

Is this normal or shoud this thing be able to pull the hill a lot better? in it's current configuration.

IF not what things do you suggest I look at?

Thanks Guys the truck is still pretty new to me.

When you're going up the grade and it loses power..... does the check engine light come on?

What I am thinking is this..... If it really is getting to 12 psi boost with a stock program, the ECM is going to defuel and set a code for over boost, in other words you are definately going to lose power because of it defueling. Now, when or if it is defueling, it should have also turned the check engine light on, to tell you that the boost was too high.

 

[Turbine Doc]

I have the stock Amber color, I have heard different opinions on the color to use but most say stick with what the MFG says.
I will have to have the radiator and AC core cleaned, What do you mean it is a Free must do, Don't you have to have it done at a shop?

External cleaning of rad & AC core no shop visit required, drain coolant remove rad, get some scrubby bubbles , I like to use AC core foaming cleaner apply to the core then flush with lots of water, I like to use the hot water heater drain cock gets crud out of heater & good source for warm water to clean better. To do it properly takes about 3 hrs for all the crud to stop flushing out, don't use high pressure it will bend over the fins, same thing for AC core which you can leave in the truck & don't have to break connections, but be careful as foaming cleaner on paint may attack the paint. There is a negative pressure area between the 2 cores which tends to pull in all sorts of crud, bugs, lizzards etc. looking from outside stack doesn't appear dirty, look between them & you'll see lots o junk

 

[WarWagon]

You have to remove the oil coolers in front of the condenser and remove the mat of junk that builds up behind them on the condenser. If the fan clutch is over 5 years old and out here, just replace it as a fan clutch looses 200 RPM per year. Check cooling upgrades before buying parts. I think your year has all the upgraded parts from the factory. I would use 180 T Stats out here, summer stats they call that temp range.

You need to pull codes out of the computer, if any.

Does it smoke when it looses power?

What part of AZ are you in? I get around...

 

[1v6pony]

War Wagon,
The first thing I did was check all the build up behind the radiator Etc.. The guy that had it before me cleaned before I got it.
I did not notice the smoke, That does not mean thier was none, It does smoke on start up, This did not start happining till I went with the 4in exaust.

I think you are right I have all the upgraded parts Dual T-stats and spin on Clutch fan. IF you have one of those Scanners I might drive to you if you do not mind.

I am in Prescott

Thanks Brad

 

[1v6pony]

Ok some update, One thing I noticed is that the RPM seemed high 55 mph not towing and 2,000rpm's
So i took it in for a Trans flush and replaced the filter, The RPM's are now back at 1,500 not towing 55mph...

I have not towed with it since the issue, But I am thinking that with the RPM lower the Turbo shuould be lower also witch should bring everythng lower in numbers while towing??? Thoughts.

Also had the radiator flushed.

Thanks Brad