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Looking at 2019 numbers Chevrolet is down bad again

schiker

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2019 Ram's up'ed their numbers to almost crazy.

3500 crew cab long bed SRW's

Ram says they can tow 25,150 lbs
Chevrolet stayed with similar numbers to 2017 & 2018 ~ 17,000 lbs. I heard GM is increasing their tow numbers in 2020.

The GAWRR is almost the same
Ram - 7000 lbs
Chevrolet - 7,050 lbs

The difference is in GCWR
Ram- 33,610 lbs (which is CDL-A)
Chevrolet - 25,300 lbs

Dang a Chevrolet dually is only rated to tow 22,700 lbs

Dang, that is a lot of weight for a SRW. According to their numbers, Ram's rear curb weight is 3005 lbs leaving approximately 3995 pin weight (no people, gear, fuel etc) = 15.8% of max trailer weight. I am not accounting for how far ahead of the axle the pin is but you can see they have about maxed out a SRW (with normal tires).
 

Will L.

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I know it changes by state- but Nevada 20,001 and up requires a cdl.
Talking to a couple hiway patrol guys I know, when theiy see folks using pickups with heavy loads, they pull them over and use the portable scales. Starting to see them get red tagged or getting impounded more often now for overweight and no cdl.

As those tow numbers go up, i think it will be happening all over soon.

Also- vehicle weight rating moves up registration costs a lot here. My hummer was at its actual weight of just over 6k, unitl I moved it up to it’s listed 10,300 for smog at one point. Annual registration costs went up $50 or $60.
A friend did it wih his top kick to 20,000 and his base cost increased by $350 per year.

There has been talk to force all registration to max ratings, and they are using other states as examples that do it, but other states are looking at copying Nevada’s cost scheduling- not like you can shop elsewhere most of the time.
 
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THEFERMANATOR

FRANKENBURBAN
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Most states are 26,001 and up requires a cdl unless its an RV or agricultural use. And GM didnt upgrade there trucks until the 2020 model where as of right now there on top again.
 

schiker

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I have my CDL-A and would rather tow with a DRW vs SRW getting that heavy.

It sorta muddied the water for me on safety, liability, and how much either are saying you should have for pin weight.

Their curb weights, GVWR and GAWRR are similar for both trucks. I guess Dodge is saying our drivetrain is just that much tougher than yours. And adds to the AdNauseam that the GCWR is the most made up number in towing specs and where does it come from (warranty liability vs safety testing).
 

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GM changed there frames back in 11 when DODGE did. Around 17/18 FORD and DODGE upgraded there brakes and frames, but GM held off and only changed out the engine with the new L5P for emissions leaving them way behind in the ratings on paper. They did it because they knew they had the game changing 2020 coming out shortly, so why spend the millions. Once the 2020's hit the lots here soon, GM will be right back at the top unless FORD tries a 1 up at the last minute.
 

Will L.

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Makes me wonder, with the upgraded brakes- instead of doing gmt400 into gmt800- could what would it take to modify an old truck and put on the new system...
 

BIGR

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I know it changes by state- but Nevada 20,001 and up requires a cdl.
Talking to a couple hiway patrol guys I know, when theiy see folks using pickups with heavy loads, they pull them over and use the portable scales. Starting to see them get red tagged or getting impounded more often now for overweight and no cdl.

As those tow numbers go up, i think it will be happening all over soon.

Also- vehicle weight rating moves up registration costs a lot here. My hummer was at its actual weight of just over 6k, unitl I moved it up to it’s listed 10,300 for smog at one point. Annual registration costs went up $50 or $60.
A friend did it wih his top kick to 20,000 and his base cost increased by $350 per year.

There has been talk to force all registration to max ratings, and they are using other states as examples that do it, but other states are looking at copying Nevada’s cost scheduling- not like you can shop elsewhere most of the time.
If your state is enforcing the CDL regulations or laws based on 20,001 lbs and over that's totally wrong based on the federal regulations. Feds say 26,001 pounds and over, more on that later.

Not trying to discredit or argue, but here is what I found, you can draw your own conclusions.

 

BIGR

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2019 Ram's up'ed their numbers to almost crazy.

3500 crew cab long bed SRW's

Ram says they can tow 25,150 lbs
Chevrolet stayed with similar numbers to 2017 & 2018 ~ 17,000 lbs. I heard GM is increasing their tow numbers in 2020.

The GAWRR is almost the same
Ram - 7000 lbs
Chevrolet - 7,050 lbs

The difference is in GCWR
Ram- 33,610 lbs (which is CDL-A)
Chevrolet - 25,300 lbs

Dang a Chevrolet dually is only rated to tow 22,700 lbs

Dang, that is a lot of weight for a SRW. According to their numbers, Ram's rear curb weight is 3005 lbs leaving approximately 3995 pin weight (no people, gear, fuel etc) = 15.8% of max trailer weight. I am not accounting for how far ahead of the axle the pin is but you can see they have about maxed out a SRW (with normal tires).
None of that gross combination weight stuff applies in my state, based on state laws. Other words a single vehicle has to be rated over 26000 pounds and be engaged in commerce. If towing a trailer, if the trailer is rated over 10000 pounds it can be combined with the towing units gvwr, if that's over 26000 pounds gvwr and it's a vehicle in commerce, then a CDL can be required unless of course it falls under certain exemptions such as a farm vehicle, yelp there is another can of worms. Yelp there are some states that might have a stricter state law maybe.
 

schiker

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The numbers coincide for 2019 brake/wheel changes for Ram. For similar SRW trucks, 2018 Chevrolet could claim to tow 150lbs more.

The brake upgrades make sense. The curb weights are similar I would think the frames are similar unless big difference in design or alloy its hard to make up this much difference. Curb weight Ram is ~ 428 lbs heavier than GM, GM engine is ~ 315lbs lighter. Transmission is roughly 20 lbs lighter for GM. The difference in Curb weight is then ~ 93lbs and kinda assume that RAM axle's are a lot of it? Its hard to believe the frames could make this much difference.

The GCWR and trailer max difference are 8,150 lbs more for Ram (over 11 times more trailer capacity than vehicle capacity).

The GVWR difference is only 700 lbs (more for Ram's). The GAWRR is 50 lbs more for GM. Payload difference is only 297 lbs.

It's like they purposefully kept GVWR underrated to stay in class but towing capacity is that much different.

I do envy the straight forward approach Ram just cuts to the chase. Everyone now has a good mule they put on some good brakes and wallah the numbers are impressive.
 

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FRANKENBURBAN
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GM just didnt care to spend the millions to upgrade when the emissions changes made them go to the new l5p in 17. Couple that to the fact the current allison is not holding up behind the l5p, it just wasnt worth it for them to do it. Ford and Dodge both upgraded in 17 with the engine change. GM decided to wait until 2020 when the new HD was slated to upgrade, and they'd have the new 10 speed to use as a selling point. I would venture to guess the new 2020's will be out soon because there is alit of interest in the new 10 speed.
 

schiker

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Dang Ferm, you are really giving arguments for not buying this year. Thanks for the info it is a good reason to barter down an 18 or 19. Seems to drop the market out of the bottom for GM until the release of upgraded numbers (at least for commercial drivers).

I will likely NEVER need to tow over 20-21K. But to me having the extra capacity it is easier to buy. I mainly want payload right now. But in reality, it really only gives you a 4-5K extra buffer for trailer weight to have high GCWR but not GAWRR or GVWR its going to be hard to get the max weight and not exceed rear axle limits and 15% in my opinion is bare minimum for a 5th wheel.

I think the SAE J2807 tow test should specify the tongue/pin weight or its % so all stats are as equal as possible.
 

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The 2020 GM's are BEAST's from all the data and info out on them. Many are really looking forward to the new 10 speed, on paper it should keep it in the peak power, and hold it there on grades. Ford also has a 10 speed coming out, but Dodge is said to only have an 8 speed. Personnally I wouldnt get a current GM because of the allison. Way to many have lost transmissions with completely stock tuning which has ALOT of defuel in it.
 
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