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HOLY CRAP! Billet compressor wheel for the factory turbo.

Showed up yesterday.

Sure enough, doesn't fit on the shaft.

However, a quick polish with a crokus cloth inside the bore and on it went like OEM.

It looks to be point milled vice flank on first look. Seems to be a 3rd order surface. In all fairness, I only looked so close at is as I was more focused on fitment and clearances at the time. I'll give it a closer look when I have time to examine it closely. It's a spare turbo it's going in to, so I'll likely run it either way to see what the results are.

Then I popped it back out and took it into work.

LPI turns up no imperfections. Not surprising since it's a machined piece. If it were to be cracked/defective it would have been pre-existing in the parent material and it would have shown up in the machining process.

Eddy current showed up good, which was the real concern. The parent material is clean, clear and no imperfections.

Next. it gets packaged up and sent away to my "guy" for balancing and a light rework.

Seller isn't overly impressive with communication. I've contacted him a few times via eBay and through his web site email with a few questions (not related to the shaft fitment).

Nada response.

Seems you're on your own after sale with this guy.....
 
Seller response:

Fair enough. We alerted the manufacturer of this issue and they stated that
they had a QA/QC check on this issue and surprisingly agreed. It is only
off about .0003 to .0004 ten thousandths. When I have built turbo's from
these I have had them fit. There is about 3 or 4 different manufacturers of
these GM1 through GM8 turbochargers and I think that there is an ever so
minute shaft OD difference. Rotomaster, IHI, and Borg Warner, and an
conglomerate of Mitsubishi called Warner/ISHI have been making this turbo
for many years and I can't help but think there has been a miniscule shaft
OD difference. My apologies for the inconvenience. Then there is Chinese
knockoffs...too much grief somedays, I swear. Which turbo the bore was
referenced from? I would hope it was the first version IHI.


We worked out a small cash back deal in consideration of the small alteration I had to do. Works for me.

Not so sure on the guys address though. Google earth doesn't reveal a shop at the address (from his web site), just a residence:

billet_zps9c91b541.jpg


billet2_zps58aae743.jpg


billet3_zpsbb4fb05e.jpg


Might be he just gets mail sent to his home address. Seems a touch sketchy though....I supposed that tall shed in the background could be a "shop".

Bills place isn't much bigger and he runs a business out of it.

I suppose it could be the shop back there.

Still won't share any info on the wheel besides "billet specialists"......
 
Well, he either subs out his work or that shed enters another dimension once you walk in the door:

billet5_zpsf2698d87.jpg


I'm talking the equipment list, not the picture. Although the picture looks pretty deep. Could just be the perspective view, but that's a lot of stuff to cram in what looks to be a 12x12 or 14x14....
 
Found the maker.

It's not USA sourced.

It's not China either. Nor is it Taiwan (Kamak turbos).

It's Kawasaki Turbo Systems -AKA- KTS

If you go to their web site and download the catalog, the part number on their excel sheet is MFSC611 at line 662 and surprise: it's listed as a GM6 replacement for the Hummer.

Scroll through the pages of the workbook and you find where you can designate blade type, length, hub, bore, extended tips, etc. Not sure where the prefix "D" comes from, workbook sheet two brings us to an explanation of the part number and D is not there. Probably just a designator for this specific production run with requested changes.

So, advertising that it is made in the USA is (IMHO) false. Big surprise there. Doesn't really bother me anyways. Kind of par for the course these days that retailers lie or omit where they get their stuff from.

It's KTS out of Japan. Company address:

http://www.productpilot.com/en/suppliers/kawasaki-turbo-system-ltd/en

Japan makes good stuff, whether you want to admit that or not. Although, the English on the website is still a bit off. "sexy curvy design"? Gotta love those Japanese translations.

All their stuff is MFS (machined from solid - or billet in bench racing speak).

Catalog: http://ktsturbobilletx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/KTS_MFS_Catalog.xls

Web site: http://ktsturbobilletx.com/

Options they will give the customer for ordering: http://ktsturbobilletx.com/?page_id=29

Shop floor: http://ktsturbobilletx.com/?page_id=14

There's more than just a few dollars invested there!


So we can stop speculating about it's origin I'm guessing.

:)
 
Opps, boobed it on the part number.

MFSC611C, not D. was looking at the back of the compressor pic pave posted.

So then, it's the part number from KTS. Right down to the last letter.....I would say that's a pretty firm "last nail".

:)
 
awesome work great white, now we can work on sourcing another vendor all together. Or become one...
 
Wow, remind me not to piss you off, :eek: :rof:

If they are really making them, wonder how he gets them so fast? He ran out when I placed my order and had another batch within a few days?
 
chevydiesel said:
awesome work great white, now we can work on sourcing another vendor all together. Or become one...
Click to expand...

I've seen reference to min orders of 1-10 at a time.

You may be able to go direct.

They offer a 4 year warranty on wheels if you look at the spreadsheet.

I have a few "connections". I made a few phone calls and talked to a few people and they have me a few suggestions on who it could be making them.

Google did the rest...
 
great white said:
I've seen reference to min orders of 1-10 at a time.

You may be able to go direct.

They offer a 4 year warranty on wheels if you look at the spreadsheet.

I have a few "connections". I made a few phone calls and talked to a few people and they have me a few suggestions on who it could be making them.

Google did the rest...
Click to expand...

Err, maybe it's 1 year.

Hard to see all the sheet on my phone....
 
My customer popped in today and so far, he's very happy. Boost is 10 psi using a TM, he reports less lag, more power and lower EGT's. MPG unchanged. He's hooking up his 12K+ trailer in 2 weeks.

Check the turbo for any shaft/bearing play, none, still tight.
 
great white said:
Sure enough, doesn't fit on the shaft.

However, a quick polish with a crokus cloth inside the bore and on it went like OEM.
Click to expand...

great white said:
Japan makes good stuff, whether you want to admit that or not. Although, the English on the website is still a bit off. "sexy curvy design"? Gotta love those Japanese translations.
Click to expand...

Absolutely awesome detective work here. I do feel better about knowing where it may have come from and if *cough* Leroy Diesel *cough* sold them I would change my mind.

"Good Stuff" in my book fits and works the first time without redneck engineering. (Modifications) Given a choice I would go for "Japan" over "China" for sure. But I will say this isn't the best example to use. Now it is possible this is a USA or Chinese knock off of the Jap part. ( :D USA Knock off what a thought.) Also possible this is reject pile being sold that needs minor work. Trust isn't earned from this seller so far in this thread. Absolutely possible they included in the counterfeit the original part number.
 
So, I contacted KTS with some questions. I used a "friend" in the turbomachinery industry since he has a bit more "clout" than me. Suffice to say, he's not some guy working out of corner shop or home garage.

KTS doesn't really deal with individual customers it seems, they deal with companies/businesses that resell their product. Makes sense to me: they're a manufacturer not a retailer.

You have to be a certain level customer to get a certain level service. From simply buying product to questions to factory tours/visits.

Yes, they made the compressor wheel.

No it is not sourced elsewhere. It is built "in house". Meaning: their facilities, their equipment and their QA program.

There is no compressor map available like most are used to seeing.

The was computer simulated fluid dynamic modelling done. To what extent is unknown. By who is unknown. Whether it was on this specific iteration or their overall design is unknown. That information is not available outside the manufacturer.

They will only state what they have on the website for improvements. Understandable, it's a cut throat business world these days and that info would be considered proprietary.

It's component balanced.

Destructive testing was not done. Only computer simulation and calculations on strength, LCF, etc.

They are subject to production run defects (ie: bore issues) like any company. Yes, it does happen, just like it does to the best of them. Yes they do accept responsibility when it happens and make corrections/replace product as required.

My personal opinion? Any "tolerance issue"'that can be corrected with a light polish with a piece of crocus cloth is not an issue at all. To have something that small of an interference fit can be chalked up to mating two different manufacturers production tolerances on components. It's a pretty small tolerance conflict that can be fixed with crocus. It even happens when I'm building a compressor section for a jet engine. Sometimes the parts just don't work together so back it goes and the next one is pulled off the shelf. If it would clean up to fit with a pass with crocus, it would be assembled and run fine. We take no "shortcuts" or "backyard fixes" in aviation and that is more than acceptable. H-e-double hockey sticks; if I had wanted to, heat would have slid it right on no issues. It just would have been locked on there and not removable without getting a puller behind it.

What does all this mean?

You have to decide that for yourself.

I'm just laying out some factual info vice conjecture and speculation.

Can't make a good decision unless it's an informed decision. Everything else is an assumption and you know what they say about those....
 
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