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Hauling Hay and DOT

HoytBows

HoytBows

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Ex-Michigander, now Elizabeth Colorado
Hey guys.

I want to take my truck and trailer up to NW Iowa and haul back some Hay to Colorado. At first glance the price is right and I am making the trip either way. So I am planning to use the truck below, then a goose neck deck over trailer with a 30' deck. It has to 9k single wheel axles. I want to haul back as much as I can obviously making the trip more worth while. My questions arise when I consider DOT and what they might have to say to me should we meet up. I am hauling the hay for personal use, to feed "cattle". The bales are 3x4x8's and I believe I can fit and haul 20 of them without too much trouble based on weight of the bales. Probably pushing it some but I'm comfortable with it. I have the right tarp for it and a bunch of DOT approved straps and plan to use both on the way home.

I believe, that by DOTs rules, I cannot wight more than 26k lbs total correct? Is DOT really looking for guys like me? What am I missing here fellas? Thanks for the help in advance.
 
I think you need to check state level dot regs, as a farmer most states do not require farmers, their families, or workers a cdl when driving a farm truck or equipment within 150 or 200 miles of the farm. By the sounds of it you all have multiple locations so hmm...

Yes 26,000 lbs and under is no cdl. However in Nv and Cali if you exceed the gvwr of the vehicle you can be tickets and red tagged from moving until enough weight has been removed. I have seen it happen I these 2 states, can't imagine it isn't in other states. Kinda not safe yankin 26,000 with a yugo I guess is the fear. Wimps! :wacky:
 
I think you are going beyond the mileage allowed by MAP-21, so some of the farmer exceptions might be out the window.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-10-01/pdf/2012-24106.pdf


It all depends on your farming operation. If you make the slightest gain financially or in other ways with the farm, your operation on the road could be considered to be in commerce, hence requiring some of the same equipment and paperwork that the big trucks run. In that case a combined GVWR rating over 10,000 pounds will put you in the Federal Regulations. Trust me it is all up to the person that stops you on the road. If they think you make money farming and are hauling hay to feed the cattle that you sale and make money with, then they will more than likely say you are in interstate commerce. The following link will get you into the Federal REGS.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/390.3



Here is the Feds definition of a commercial motor vehicle of which the rules apply to if in commerce.

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

Also here is their definition of interstate commerce:

Interstate commerce means trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States—

(1) Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);

(2) Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or

(3) Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.

More of the way they see it:
Interstate Commerce is trade, traffic, or transportation involving the crossing of a State boundary. Either the vehicle, its passengers, or cargo must cross a State boundary, or there must be the intent to cross a State boundary to be considered an interstate carrier. Intrastate commerce is trade, traffic, or transportation within a single State.Interstate commerce is determined by the essential character of the movement, manifested by the shipper's fixed and persistent intent at the time of shipment, and is ascertained from all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the transportation. When the intent of the transportation being performed is interstate in nature, even when the route is within the boundaries of a single state, the driver and the CMV are subject to Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. - See more at: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/medical/dr...river-exemption-programs#sthash.ZAZGuxSF.dpuf



What are the GVWR Ratings on the truck and the trailer. Usually a combined rating or gross weight over 26,000 LBS will require a CDL unless you meet the farm exemption which probably has the mileage limitation of 100 or 150 miles. Over that then probably you are in the CDL game.

I know you are curious about their rules on CDL'S. HERE:

Pursuant to Federal standards, States issue CDLs and CLPs to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A: Any combination of vehicles which has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) whichever is greater.

Class B: Any single vehicle which has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight that does not exceed 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

Class C: Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

- See more at: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/drivers#sthash.eQ4BD9az.dpuf



If your truck and trailer weigh over 26,000 pounds then usually fuel permits are required and in some cases apportioned tags unless you run a farm plate on the truck and other states honor that. Also how much tag (registered) weight does the truck have. In most cases you want to make sure the tag covers the truck, trailer and load.

Hope that stuff does not scare you, but one can get in big time trouble if things are not right and he meets up with the wrong person on the road.
 
I am not taking the farm route at all. Its more crossing state lines and my overall weight that Im concerned with.

Turns out one of my buddies at work here is a certified DOT inspector, tho we dont do a whole lot of it here in the city. We had a conversation and he really is like the rest of us, not the "wrong DOT person" on the road. His take on it is that I am just hauling the hay that I bought from my family farm for personal use and I'm not making a red cent off it, and I have it secured properly, then he doubts that anybody will bat an eye. I dont have cattle, its for horses, but sometimes horses are not recognized as "agriculture"

You absolutely are right, the wrong dude could really make any savings disappear quickly
 
Your first post is confusing apparently missing words like "don't" in "have cattle". :bookworm:

Keeping it under 26,000 is going to be rough. Truck around 8000 Lbs and trailer likely 4000 LBS empty. You can haul around 14000 LBS of hay. Math done twice as the trailer 9000 lbs *2 minus it's own weight gives us 14000 as well as the DOT under 26000 LBS math.

Your truck rated to tow 18,000 LBS? No... 15,750 is the limit of my best one. 16,700 appears to be the upper limit of 2009 LMM's. Your configuration and 4x4 or not make a difference to this number.

You can only get around 12,700 LBS of hay with the ballpark 4K trailer weight. You don't want to overload it from blowing tires, breaking things like hitches clean off, to safety of yourself and those around you. We are talking theory of doing this anyway.

Figure MPG towing and any rough grades on the way that affect MPG. Figure 50 cents or more a mile costs in doing this.

Get a courtesy weight at a truck stop before you load up and figure the weight of fuel. In fact fill up before getting a weight.

Yes, the DOT stops 2500 and 3500 pickups towing cargo trailers at a specific distance from Phx where the distance driver log exemption runs out.
 
Ok, horses specifically used for you and the family to ride would be a whole different story as they say, especially if they are just for recreation. Now if you raised and sold them or you have horses that you race or show for money, then you could still be considered as a money making farm in some people's eyes.

Your first post got me thinking that you actually were in to cattle farming big time. I think you were just maybe using that term as maybe an example.

I will tell you that sometimes it is all in what you say when you are stopped, if you get stopped on the road. I know years ago there was a severe drought in some areas and there was some exemptions for people hauling hay for their animals. If you was to get stopped, make sure it is explained that it is for personal type use.

Like Warwagon said keep everything under the ratings and safe. Don't do a thing on the road that attracts attention to yourself. Some of those things would be : a vehicle loaded so heavy that it is slow and impedes traffic real bad. A load that appears that it is too tall, wide or about to come off. Driving recklessly or speeding excessively down the road. I know the duramax is very capable of that even with big loads. With the cell phone age, people on the road will call in on you even if they don't like your looks or if your bumper sticker offends them. Other words as they say, stay under the radar.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do.
 
The troopers around the Council Bluffs area are the first thing I thought of. They could very well wreck your trip in a hurry if you're planning the route I suspect you will. Otherwise I would suggest just not exceeding GCVW.
 
From the 'not drawing attention' aspect, one additional item comes to mind. Some states have 55 mph speed limits for any vehicle with something in tow. Bus style RV's tend to get snared in this as they do not consider their little car-in-tow as a trailer.
 
Another thing! Dont know about other states, but Calif. allows only clean water & live chicken feathers to 'fly' off your load.
 
I doubt any other state would have an issue with a few tufts on loose hay flying off.
Heck, that's how we sweep off all the wagons and trailers when done with hay and straw. Run down the road and back...
 
btfarm said:
I doubt any other state would have an issue with a few tufts on loose hay flying off.
Heck, that's how we sweep off all the wagons and trailers when done with hay and straw. Run down the road and back...
Click to expand...

That's right, grass and hay is all natural to the environment. Its not like some material like a chemical that's going to harm anything, but sometimes there are nanny state laws that are ridiculous that have no common sense approach.
 
cornemuse said:
Another thing! Dont know about other states, but Calif. allows only clean water & live chicken feathers to 'fly' off your load.
Click to expand...

Last I knew Hay was also allowed in most states.
 
I would think the 26K GCW is the key here. Most states are pretty leniant up to 26K pounds, but once you go over unless it is an RV, they can fine you as commercial as anything over 26,000 pounds is considered commercial(RV's have an exemption). I know at least in Florida, you can get by under 26K pounds for even hot shot drivers, but if you break 26,001 you have to have a CDL, current physical, and such. I know somebody who does hot shot driving in state and stays under 26K pounds because he knows he can no longer pass a DOT physical, so he can't get a CDL. He said he's never been hasseled about exceeding the max trailer tow ratings so long as he doesn't exceed the max allowed weights per axle and the 26K pounds GCW. I know years back I helped my uncle moving back from Wyoming, and we routinely exceeded the max tow rating of his 92 F-350 dually, but we never exceeded the max axle or trailer ratings, and the weigh stations never gave us a hassle once they found out it was for personal use and not for hire.

The one exception is if you DO have a CDl, you are screwed as these exceptions no longer apply to you. I know somebody else who was hauling his personal boat that is over width, and because he had a CDL he got hit with close to $5K in fines where if he didn't have a CDL he would have just gotten a small fine and had to wait until daylight to have moved it with a blanket permit. Once you have a CDL, you cannot go back to regular driving rules.
 
Straps top and bottom at least on the front and rear and maybe every other row if you have enough straps (buy more, they're cheap). Thats how my hay haulers run. All top bales strapped, all bottom end bales strapped, depending on the state they haul through they strap more of the bottom row.

When I haul hay I dont get stopped, I am typically over weight, over width, and probably short a couple straps and a few minor things. If it looks like you tried most local guys won't stop a sure enough farm rig.
 
Denver to Iowa via the Socialist State of Kalifornia?
Reminds me of Uneasy Rider; "from Mississippi to Los Angeles via Omaha".

I had the privilege to drive 80,000 lbs or under (CDL) through all lower 48 states. Many times I saw trucks and pickups pulled over to the side of State weigh stations for violations. WCS (Worst Case Scenario); The driver in front of me and I were both called in to show our doc.s and he got some attitude with the uniformed armed officer. He was stuck at that station for a week. They would find something needing repair/replacement. He'd call to the nearest town for the part...re inspection and oops they found something else. I was nice and obedient and went out happy. He was the talk of the CB for a while. Don't be that guy...;)
 
dangerousdave said:
Denver to Iowa via the Socialist State of Kalifornia?
Reminds me of Uneasy Rider; "from Mississippi to Los Angeles via Omaha".

I had the privilege to drive 80,000 lbs or under (CDL) through all lower 48 states. Many times I saw trucks and pickups pulled over to the side of State weigh stations for violations. WCS (Worst Case Scenario); The driver in front of me and I were both called in to show our doc.s and he got some attitude with the uniformed armed officer. He was stuck at that station for a week. They would find something needing repair/replacement. He'd call to the nearest town for the part...re inspection and oops they found something else. I was nice and obedient and went out happy. He was the talk of the CB for a while. Don't be that guy...;)
Click to expand...

Yea, attitude will set the tone for what happens, can mean getting a warning or getting the book thrown at you as they say. Be a total jerk off and things can get tough on one. Don't try to argue, take your medicine and deal with it later. Many states have a protest procedure for violations.
 
NA! Fight it all, every time- even if your wrong!

On a similar topic, who here can bail me out...:wacky:

I'm so funny in my own mind...
 
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