Hard to start any ideas?

[thr464fuf]

So here goes. I recently purchased a 2000 Chev 3500 truck. It ran perfectly when I bought it. Started to have the symptoms of a "bad" FSD/PMD. Stalling, hard starting when warm. I also recently had a very hard time starting the truck first thing in the morning an extremely cold days (-20). Now it is almost impossible to start first thing any day. I just replaced the FSD/PMD with a higher temp rated Dtech on a heat sink on the intake manifold #9 resistor I purchased through Accurate Diesel. I just did this yesterday. Truck ran great. Best it ever has. I go outside this morning and the truck is still a pig to start. I call a diesel repair shop and inquire about glow plugs, and they suggest I have a fuel backflow problem somewhere, ie air in the fuel lines somewhere. Does anyone have an idea of where I should start looking. I hear the lift pump running when I turn the key and have verified fuel to the IP by way of the valve. No noticeable vacuum when I removed the gas cap. Anyone else had this problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[thr464fuf]

Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). Hard to Start first time each day

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: 2000
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) K3500
- Automatic or Standard Auto
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) 113500mi
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc)PMD
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? Turbo
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) 30F
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) #2
- What fuel additives are you using? None other than winter blend for MN
- Where are you located? Mn

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter 112000mi
- Fuel filter 112000mi
- CDR Valve? unknown
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at 112000
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at syn 113000
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at Chg/matched/unknown
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): yes
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? UnknownWhat type? unknown
- Injectors - last changed at unknown


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? Trying to start
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? no
- Has this problem ever happened before? recurring
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. bad PMD, replaced
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) unableAnd? ________


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? eventually
1b] Does the engine crank over? yes
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? yes
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? yes
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? 10-15 secs
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? no For how long? n/a
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? yes grey

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? yes
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? yes
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? yes
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? yes
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? no

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) Intake on heat exchange
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? N/A
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. cleaned/good
3d] PMD Make: Dtech
3e] PMD Age: 1 day

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? N/a
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) N/a
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? n/a
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? n/a
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? ____n/a_____
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___n/a________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _____n/a____
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___n/a________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? No
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? No
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? no
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? _____No_____

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges? ___No________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____Unknown________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? __No____________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? _______No_________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum? _____Vacuum_________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? _____Unknown_______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? __No_______
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? ___No_________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ___No_____
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? ____No______
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? __No_________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

_________________________________
__________________
Please include your vehicle details in your signature. Click here to fill out yours.

 

[JMJNet]

If I can suggest, check your GP and GP controller.

You are just about over 100K miles. GP may start to go bad. I am not sure what they put for 2000 model.

Also double check your LP system. I know it is flowing out fuel, you may want to test the pressure.

Also check your battery connectors and cables. Some of them can corrode and you don't even know it until it is inspected closely.

 

[packratt]

Get that new PMD out of the engine bay before you fry it.

 

[JeffMD]

Does your truck have a block heater? If so are you using it?
I would try cycling the glow plugs twice before starting. As cold as it is up there you are going to need to generate a lot of heat to get that thing to fire. If the truck is parked outside over night, the engine is going be a lot colder than the air may be when you come out to start it. If it is -10* at 2:00 A.M. the engine is not going to be 30* like the air is at 6:30.

 

[buddy]

Its probably just your Glow Plugs and controller as suggested. And you need to use the block heater as suggested. Mechanics these days usually dont know much about the 6.5s, and most people learn the hard way.

Have you recently jumped your truck, had alternator changed, or used a charger assist start?

 

[Mudbath]

Get the PMD out of the engine bay and make sure the ground is still on the IP.
If you get the AC Delco glow plugs make sure they are the 60G, and they will need a longer glow to work properly in really cold weather. A glow plug over ride will be necessary to get this longer glow, they are self limiting so you don't have to worry about over glowing them. It is important that the batteries are really strong too, should really be cranking fast. If long periods of cold like the -20 you mentioned, battery warmers are great to help with the Cold Cranking Amps.

 

[minisub]

Mine was getting increasingly hard to start and wouldn't the one day we were at -11*F.

Replaced the GPs last weekend, only 2 of them were bad, but what a difference. Started yesterday at -4*F like it was a warm summer day....

 

[thr464fuf]

I do have a block heater and use it. I am suspect of the glow plugs but when I called the mechanic he claimed that the truck should start with just the heater, even if glow plugs are bad. Said that the pressure generated by the pistons would start the truck. I am getting a lot of fuel when i ran from the T valve. I don't have a pressure tester but got about 1/4 gal in 5 seconds just from the key on without cranking. No visible air bubbles either. Is there a way to check the GP controller. Is changing glow plugs a do-it yourself job, or should I take it to a mechanic? I am nervous about breaking an end off into the compression chamber. Any tips to avoid this?

 

[JMJNet]

You can test the GP using ohmmeter between the GP and 12V from bat positive. However, the best way is to take it out and apply 12V to it see how it glows, be careful when you do that. You can do it with one or two from the driver side (easy side).

As far as changing, it is about as difficult as changing the spark plug in a gasser.

The driver side can be changed in less than 15 minutes or less to do all 4.

The pass side, my suggestion is to take the wheel fender liner out. Then you can access them without any problem.

As the possibilities of breaking it depends on the condition of the GP sometimes it has swelled and burnt. For your year, I don't think it is that bad.

There are 2 choices for GP: AC 60G or Bosch Duraterm. Both of them are good based on most people experience here. The Bosch Duraterm is better in cold weather. There are also people who add GP override to make the GP glow longer. You can search on that.

By the way, I am not sure what your mechanic is telling you. Unfortunately, in cold weather, the GP is the only way to heat up the diesel to get combustion. That statement may be true if you live in TX or in the south. We don't need to have a tip top shape GP and it will probably start.

 

[Mudbath]

I do have a block heater and use it. I am suspect of the glow plugs but when I called the mechanic he claimed that the truck should start with just the heater, even if glow plugs are bad. Said that the pressure generated by the pistons would start the truck. I am getting a lot of fuel when i ran from the T valve. I don't have a pressure tester but got about 1/4 gal in 5 seconds just from the key on without cranking. No visible air bubbles either. Is there a way to check the GP controller. Is changing glow plugs a do-it yourself job, or should I take it to a mechanic? I am nervous about breaking an end off into the compression chamber. Any tips to avoid this?

1) maybe if it was like 80* outside

2) simple way is check power into it and power out of it with a test light. Power to it all the time, power out when the controller is supposed to be turning plugs on (audible click also) then you could check to see the amps draw going to each side. MY GM DEALER RECOMMENDS 120-130 AMPS total draw with the AC Delco 60G glow plugs

3) Can be done yourself passenger side a beatch. If it has the old 9G glows or equivalent they can swell up making it difficult to remove. Others have used compression of motor to blow out (if tip breaks off), but caution must be used as they will come out like a bullet, make sure there is a rag over it and no one standing close by.

 

[Mudbath]

"The pass side, my suggestion is to take the wheel fender liner out. Then you can access them without any problem."

:iagree:


Have lots of band-aids and a nurse on stand by.

 

[buddy]

If changing glo-plugs yourself maybe you want to change the injectors yourself too, and just pull the turbo off to make everything easier. If you dont know if the injectors have been changed, or if youve had the truck for most of its life and now has 113K miles you should change the injectors too.

Your mechanic obviously not a 6.5/6.2 mechanic and I wouldnt bring it to him. find a diesel fuel injection specialty shop, most of them know the stanadyne fuel setup really well and have worked with many 6.5s. These are nothing like the new D-MAX's or Cummins or Powerstrokes. Stealerships are the worst about these things too, because they will tell you they have Diesel specialist, but they wont tell you they went to D-MAX schooling only.

There are diesels that dont use glow plugs, but no Indirect Injected ones like ours.

 

[thr464fuf]

Okay, I just got the drivers side GP's out. 3 wet (Fuel) one was dry. Is it safe to assume that the 3 wet ones were bad? I am assuming that when cycled on they would burn off any fuel. I am going to replace all of them. Thanks for the tip on the passenger side wheel well removal. I was going to attempt to remove the Turbocharger to get at them. Removing a wheel well is more to my skill level. I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[buddy]

Removing the turbo isnt a hard thing either, just a set of bolts, and a few clamps.

After getting new glo-plugs in, if you have a lot of smoke on startup from day to day, I'd suggest changing the injectors, since thats usually a sign that they are leaking and will cause quite a but of damage. I imagine with 3 bad glo-plugs youd get a lot of smoke on startup usually.

 

[Turbine Doc]

I do have a block heater and use it. I am suspect of the glow plugs but when I called the mechanic he claimed that the truck should start with just the heater, even if glow plugs are bad. Said that the pressure generated by the pistons would start the truck. I am getting a lot of fuel when i ran from the T valve. I don't have a pressure tester but got about 1/4 gal in 5 seconds just from the key on without cranking. No visible air bubbles either. Is there a way to check the GP controller. Is changing glow plugs a do-it yourself job, or should I take it to a mechanic? I am nervous about breaking an end off into the compression chamber. Any tips to avoid this?

The mechanic is sort of correct, in warm weather it will start on high CR alone, my burb with 140K on clicker would not do it on every start even at 60F ambient temp,

What happens without glows, in cold day PCM with input of the CTS, says hey it's cold out, advance time/fuel to help the start, well if glows don't preheat IDI chamber (pre-cup) then fuel squirts, and almost ignites but with repeated squirts becomes flooded like a old gasser carb did.

Not flooded per sei, but the stoimetric(sp???) ratio of air to fuel gets out of whack, and until cyl heats up; more fuel than air is a pita to establish the flame, (remember basic science , 3 things for fire triangle, fuel-air-ignition source (glows or compression heat), incorrect proportion of any or abscence of them you get a no start, works in turbines-gassers-Diesels, anything that requires combustion to get things moving along)

What you can try to do in this scenario for a 6.5 is unplug the IP fuel shutdown solenoid, silver thingy hex head on top of IP, so no more fuel goes to the engine, crank it several times heat the chambers, plug back in and go for a start, when/if it fires it probably will be white smoke city for a while. 21:1 CR of the 6.5 should allow you to start without glows, was also a thread last month IIRC (somebody link it please) sent to us from land of great White North where hair dryer was brought into play to preheat intake air with a hairdryer.

 

[thr464fuf]

IT LIVES!!! Started on first try. Took about 2.5 hrs to change them all. If wet plugs are an indication of bad plugs, than 7 of them were bad. Almost no smoke at startup. Used to fog the neighborhood when it started. I think you guys solved the problem. I wan't to thank everyone for all your help. I can't even begin to think how much cash I saved from this site since I bought the truck. If any of you ever make it up to Rochester, MN I'll buy you a cold one. Next project is to get a PMD/FSD extention and move to the bumper. When I do I'll be here for advice. Again you have my gratitude!

 

[JMJNet]

Glad we can help you solved the issue!!!

Have fun!!!

 

[minisub]

Good to hear :thumbsup:

Stick around and pay it forward....

 

[NVW]

was also a thread last month IIRC (somebody link it please) sent to us from land of great White North where hair dryer was brought into play to preheat intake air with a hairdryer.

That would be our friendly bear on the throne.:smile5: Jim might remember which thread.

Leo​