Hard starting in cold weather with 98/95 merge

[bison]

If I read this right, the only thing that the 2 installations have in common (electronically) is the IP. Is the IP from the 98 in good working order? If so, you may want to consider a swap.

yes, you read this right.I have considdered swapping pumps,but if the issue is the pump itself[wich i try to find out] then a warranty pump would be in order, as this pump is only 3 or 4 yrs old.

 

[bison]

From what I hear it works well, for time being MT-2500 will work, not easy but most common scan tool out there for a long time many folks may have one.

What PCM do you have, a 98 has theft deterrent module that needs to talk to a TD module in the steering column, if you did not do a theft learn (different than TDC offset learn) it won't start?

I did not do a learn of any kind, just took the fried plant out, and dropped the other one in and it fired up with no problem. i dont have a clue as to what that passlock will or will not do. only prob i have is the one i posted when the engine was still in the 95 and it followed it to the 98.if i can pinpoint it to the IP, then i am in for a warranty exchange.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Going to bed, will sleep on it some, but if your engine was swapped from a 95 should have little bearing on theft learn, basic premise though is you have a 95 donor into a 98 truck runs well once started but is having starting issues in very cold weather, that about sum it up ???

 

[chrisk1500]

If it were mine, I would be looking at an IP swap about now....

You don't need to buy one that comes with a PMD...easily found for around $700 if you talk to the right 'Pro's.....

 

[bison]

If it were mine, I would be looking at an IP swap about now....

You don't need to buy one that comes with a PMD...easily found for around $700 if you talk to the right 'Pro's.....

This IP should be under the extended warranty being tops 4 yrs old. I can use that 700 pop some where else:yesnod:

 

[bison]

Going to bed, will sleep on it some, but if your engine was swapped from a 95 should have little bearing on theft learn, basic premise though is you have a 95 donor into a 98 truck runs well once started but is having starting issues in very cold weather, that about sum it up ???

TD,your'a genius.That exactly sums it up to a T.No isuess what so ever but that one.
I got an IP i took apart,they are actually pretty simple mechanicly. And other than a electr gremlin in the FS,OS or stepper motor, the only thing I can think of would be a sticking advance part or the FS valve itself.If this condition (very low rough idle without the rattle and blue/black smoke) is limp mode? It should trow a code right? Yet it does not.

 

[buddy]

TD,your'a genius.That exactly sums it up to a T.No isuess what so ever but that one.
I got an IP i took apart,they are actually pretty simple mechanicly. And other than a electr gremlin in the FS,OS or stepper motor, the only thing I can think of would be a sticking advance part or the FS valve itself.If this condition (very low rough idle without the rattle and blue/black smoke) is limp mode? It should trow a code right? Yet it does not.

If I understand correct you dont really have starting issues, as you have stated it fires right up. What you have is warm up idle issues when its cold.

 

[bison]

I dont really think it is warm up idle issues, cause giving extended glow while idling dont make a diff.
there is no pedal response till the engine starts to rattle.

 

[Turbine Doc]

I doubt your issue is IP or timing related, I'm still thinking a glow issue but voltage related, think about it in very cold weather batteries become less efficient, any resistance in the circuit exacerbates the issue, so poor gnds, corrosion in wiring, 1 of 8 glows weak, dirty contacts on glow relay mean less juice overall to the glow system.

IIRC you said you checked glows, how, with a DVM ??? they can read good but still be bad, bad in that they don't fully glow, only real test is to remove them and put voltage to them they should get hot tip to center cherry red quickly 4-5 sec, if longer than that or no full glow then the glows are weak. I've used a batt charger, (MAKE SURE YOU AREN'T ON START POSITION /HI CURRENT CHARGE) safest way is jumper/alligator clips to the glow/batt, they will get hot so need to be placed some place safe for high heat.

Another possibility is in cold weather one of the two batts are starting to get somewhat sulphated & nearing end of service life, which is why I recommend a load tester be part of every 6.5er's tool kit, you can get a cheap one from harbor freight for about $20, since everthing on these trucks is voltage sensitive, everything that goes odd with them requires knowing gnds and batts themselves are up to par.

Last piece of the puzzle, how much juice during these cold weather hard start events is coming out of the glow relay, remember the glows are 6v heating elements, that we juice up to 12v to make them glow. hit them with <12v and they aren't going to get as hot, so put your DVM on the outlet of the relay and see if you are getting a huge volt drop.

Make sure your park brake is on also, on 98 you have DTRLs, which will come on inbetween cranking and pull the batt down even more. What series of glow do you have if 60gs you can add in a pre glow feature, this is however if you find no issues with your glow system/batts. With a springloaded momentary on pushbutton switch wired to apply +12v to pin B of your glow relay you can preheat the pre-cup chamber before attempting to crank the engine at all.

 

[Turbine Doc]

I dont really think it is warm up idle issues, cause giving extended glow while idling dont make a diff.
there is no pedal response till the engine starts to rattle.

As I was typing the previous response you posted this, now I am more confused than before what your issue is, my previous post was about a hard start issue, your are now describing a non acceleration issue ????

 

[Turbine Doc]

Is engine running sub idle during this session ??? that would prevent throttle advance as PCM will be looking that min idle has been achieved before it will let the APP ask for more rpm, as PCM is expecting to at least be at minimum rpm. I'm not sure how the algorythm is set but most electroninc engine controls need to see that a minimum speed is met before it will release command authority to the governing device this case the APP

 

[buddy]

Unfortunately everyone has been confused and you removed the pertinent info from the first posts. I have been trying to point out he does not have any starting issues, its a bad idle issue after startup, but have been contradicted on symantics of poor performance after startup and warm up idle issue.

Quote from his original post
First thing in the morning. glow,start [very quik], instant fireup on all 8. 1 sec later engine falls back to very low idle,starts bucking and smoking bad. And has NO pedal control left [dead] This goes on for 1 to 5 min depending on ambient temp. the colder the longer it takes.then engine comes suddenly back to life ,smooth running and pedal control is back. then truck starts and runs fine all day.

Another question....
Is this the same vehicle you wired up the high idle with 12V instead of ground? And you have the remote start on?

 

[bison]

Now you are making me korn fused as well.
In my very first post, when the engine was still in the 95 i mentioned that there was no trottle response asociated with the start up idle problem.

At that time i suspected the glow circuit.I put in new AC delco 60-g plugs,measured 12 volt on all leads.It made No diff. mind you the engine would fire up instantly in -30 with blockheater of course. Without operational glow system it would have never started.
Next I swapped the AAP for a known good one.Still no dif

fast forward.
Gremlin followed the truck

Glow controller performs good.all leads are verified good,(checked with DVM)the plugs where used for only a week(i considder them new) and a glow bypass switch to extend the glow time on the slowerheating 60-G in our cold winter climate is installed as well + a fuel gauge..At overhaul, i tested all the glowplugs on the batt for working before installing them again. 2 brandnew 1050 amp batts installed.Cranking is very fast
The engine actually starts on all 8 immiddiatly but falls back to the slow irregulair idle within a sec.Then it is barely making 400 rpm on the tach.At that point there is no pedal response.
I did not check for volt drop but the amp gauge drops from 14.5 volt to 13 volt when ever the wait to start light lits up.

I dont know what to add.

 

[ak diesel driver]

On my truck alot of times it acts similar to this when its cold not as bad though. I always assumed it was a weak glow plug and once the engine turned over enough it generated enough heat to finally fire normally. My other thought is that it is a couple of slightly sticking injectors. Once again my poor idle doesn't last near as long as he is describing usually 30 secs-1min. The colder it is the worse it is.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I was reading on one of the other sites and this isn't a rare occurence. Be interesting to see end result.

 

[bison]

On my truck alot of times it acts similar to this when its cold not as bad though. I always assumed it was a weak glow plug and once the engine turned over enough it generated enough heat to finally fire normally. My other thought is that it is a couple of slightly sticking injectors. Once again my poor idle doesn't last near as long as he is describing usually 30 secs-1min. The colder it is the worse it is.

What you're describing is not exactly what i am experiencing though.a couple of leaked down injectors or a few bad glowers will cause a rough idle and white/grey smoke at start up ,worse the colder it gets, but you'll still have pedal control if you step on it. I dont.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Actually I don't

 

[bison]

AHA,interesting!.well at least i dont feel so alone anymore.

 

[Diesel -T]

Have you tried unhooking Ect sensor to see if any difference? Thinking about lack of high idle at start up. Ignore this if already covered .

 

[buddy]

Is this the 98 that you had another thread about high idle and remote start?