Ethanol and Methanol in Gasoline

[3500GMC]

For a small engines it's a big problem. Chainsaws, mowers, trimmers, back up generators, log splitters, snow blowers, old cars and trucks. List goes on. Anything with a carburetor and/or rubber in the fuel system. Aluminum suffers the ill effects too.

It's become a big problem because of the alcohol, the blend with no-lead makes for big time corrosive stuff. It just doesn't last and will wreak havoc on basically the whole engine. They keep ratcheting up the alcohol content more and more. Less BTU per dollar as well. I've seen gensets on the verge of meltdown with a glowing red exhaust. The carbs are jetted for a certain air/fuel ratio and needs fuel of a better quality than what they get fed.

I don't have the desire to rebuild all my carburetors every year or stand there yanking on a string wearing out my shoulder on some chain saw!

In my opinion Sta-Bil just doesn't cut it anymore. It makes for harder starts and poor performance. Especially with 2-cycle oil already in the mix.

Here recently I discovered a little relief in the form of a mid-grade 90 octane no-lead marketed and sold with NO ALCOHOL at a local commercial fuel co-op. It's available at the pump 24/7. A week ago I got a jug it was priced at 2.89 a gallon. The stuff is way better than the swill at most 'gas stations'. Will it keep for 3 years? Probably not but it does keep longer than typical pump gas I find.

What's your survival tactics?
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[Will L.]

It eats many hydrocarbon materials like plastics and rubber, but if you are seeing corrosive action on metals, then there is a high moisture content. Find a new supplier, dont store it long, no plastic fuel cans, etc.

My long term action is diesel fuel instead. (No such thing as a diesel chainsaw?) Seriously no easy fix for gas things like the 43 Willy's my Dad gave me before he died over a decade ago. The lead supplements help with things like valves and rings, but long term better metal parts is the answer for no lead. No good answer for living in wet/ humid climates other than dont store it at all in the machine.

Steel fuel cans that are pressure vessels filled then put a vacuum on it to remove moisture and keep it sealed that way for zombie day scenario. Then rotate that stock 2 month interval best you can.

If I had acreage like I once did, and I could figure out a partners to run it with, I would make my own fuel from rubber tires and/or plastic with pyrolysis. It is dangerous if things go wrong, but so is welding on fuel tanks and that hasn't kept me from it either. Just not with next door neighbors or kids that may be passing by. Of course paying all applicable taxes.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I install a ball valve on the fuel line and run it out of fuel when I'm done. But I can actually store it longer than most of you guys because of temps

 

[3500GMC]

Good point on temp (and humidity).. The weather does indeed suck in Ohio. Temps and humidity can swing 40 points or more. It's like tropical rain forest June thru Sept. Race gas used to be a good crutch but it has become all but non existent and when you do find the stuff it's 10 bucks a gallon. Then it's a mystery of how old/watered/rusted it is. Bottom line, they do not sell enough of it. It does keep way longer but you cannot have it contaminated one tiny bit for storage I find.

Every time I run a carb dry for storage around here I may as well replace it the next time I put fuel to it. JUNK

I hope this NA no-lead works out.
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[btfarm]

I started putting Startron enzyme treatment in the 300 gal overhead tank at the right mixture several years ago thanks to Bill (Ctchevy427). Since then I have had almost no trouble with any of the 2 or 4 cycle small equipment, some of which are over 10 years old. And there are probably 20 pieces in total. I also try to run all of the 4 cycle motors out of fuel at shutdown. I usually run through just about the 300 gallons in 11 to 12 months since my loader tractor is gas also.

 

[WarWagon]

I buy the pre mix fuel cans at the store for the chainsaw 2 stroke stuff. You can't just run small engines out of fuel: that leaves too much gas in the carb that turns into a solid corrosive goo. It even ruins the plastic floats so that a carb clean out results in flooding without a new float.

Storage would be running the 2 stroke real krap free gas first then draining the tank.

Propane conversions where you can like gensets.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Hmm when I run mine out of fuel they seem to be pretty empty

 

[ak diesel driver]

Sure your fuel shutoff isn't leaking, part of why I went to the ball valve.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

I run ethanol free in everything. For the saws I run them until they're warm, drain the tanks, then run em out while jiggling the choke to empty them as best as possible(has worked flawlessly for 10 years without a single hiccup). When I hadmy 2 stroke outboard, same deal there, disconnect the fuel line, run it until it was dry whilechiking it at the end. In 15 years the only reason I messed with it was to replace the plastic tensioner on the mixture screw because it got loose. Even did the same with my honda 75hp. Guy I got it from never ran it empty, even with ethanol free, tbe carbs would be gummed up after 3 weeks sitting. I never touched them in the 10 monthswe had it because running it dry just worked(as well as it did for all of my customers who listened). Down here it's not hard to find it because so many with boats screamed about ethanol problems, and with an economy thats largely swayed by marine activities, it responded and brought us numerous ethanol free stations. Star tron is an excellent product. I used it 10 years ago when ethanol free was tough to find, and it always worked well in my 225 evinrude 2 smoke. I reccomended it for years after stabil was found to worsen ethanol related problems(even the new ethanol formula sucks).

 

[schiker]

Startron plus stabil marine formula with non ethanol fuel for my small engines and boat (I don't trust the pump label). Any storage in cans gets sealed air tight and try to keep the jug out of the sun. There are 3 big lakes close by so luckily a few stations with non ethanol fuel. Also, I like getting all the rated HP out of the small engines since Ethanol reduces power some. I try to only use high quality synthetic smokeless 2 stroke oil with stabilizer in formula. Usually its a stihl synthetic 2 stoke oil or opti-lube(?). I try not to mix more than a gallon at time and use it up quickly. I always swirl - lightly shake up gas before adding fuel.

For long term storage I was told its better to empty 2 stroke stuff (run it out of fuel) then put a little of the good stuff warwagon mentioned then run it til it purges the other gas. Its premixed synthetic gasoline with the long shelf life. Suppose to keeps seals from drying. But its too costly to run every week in summer.

 

[schiker]

We have all seen it but here is a picture of my boat carb that had sat for 2 maybe 3 years when my kids were infants (and I had screwed up and gualled the no. 1 piston being stupid). Its an '03 and did not have a good filter not sure what gas had been in it from original owner but made me much more vigilant on what fuel I buy and addidize. Also I installed a marine fuel filter water separator after clean up and rebuild.

 

[DieselCash]

I can not find ethonal free gas near my house, even with two lakes 15 minutes or less away.
I run 93 octane in all my equipment. I also run it with the fuel shut off till it dies(if it has a fuel shut off).
I have had very few problems.

 

[schiker]

Some 93 octane has more detergents. Quick Trip (QT) stations are suppose to have guaranteed fuel quality and heard 2nd hand from a distributor they have more additives than lots of other stations. I see they have their own maintain even crews and pump techs.

 

[3500GMC]

Wish Ida got a pic of the log splitter I had tore down the other day, Gawd.. Aluminum bowl (Briggs engine) full of gelatinous muck and the needle was stuck solid in the brass seat sleeve. Woulda never started. Had to doctor that one up..

Some good reading here.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I started putting Startron enzyme treatment in the 300 gal overhead tank at the right mixture several years ago thanks to Bill (Ctchevy427). Since then I have had almost no trouble with any of the 2 or 4 cycle small equipment, some of which are over 10 years old. And there are probably 20 pieces in total. I also try to run all of the 4 cycle motors out of fuel at shutdown. I usually run through just about the 300 gallons in 11 to 12 months since my loader tractor is gas also.

Ditto!

 

[precision37]

http://pure-gas.org/
This is helpful for finding ethanol free fuel.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Startron plus stabil marine formula with non ethanol fuel for my small engines and boat (I don't trust the pump label). Any storage in cans gets sealed air tight and try to keep the jug out of the sun. There are 3 big lakes close by so luckily a few stations with non ethanol fuel. Also, I like getting all the rated HP out of the small engines since Ethanol reduces power some. I try to only use high quality synthetic smokeless 2 stroke oil with stabilizer in formula. Usually its a stihl synthetic 2 stoke oil or opti-lube(?). I try not to mix more than a gallon at time and use it up quickly. I always swirl - lightly shake up gas before adding fuel.

For long term storage I was told its better to empty 2 stroke stuff (run it out of fuel) then put a little of the good stuff warwagon mentioned then run it til it purges the other gas. Its premixed synthetic gasoline with the long shelf life. Suppose to keeps seals from drying. But its too costly to run every week in summer.

Ethanol actually makes more power, not less. That's why so many run e85 for racing. It has more power potential, problem is it takes alot more of it to make the power. And mixxing 2 different additives can make them caustic. I believe it was red sta-bil and star tron that made a mixture that did more damage than ethanol could have ever dreamed of.

 

[Will L.]

It all sux. I want the little bubble fuel the Jetson's space cars used...
Imagine Bbbbbbbb sound mixed with clack clack clack of a 6.5- yeah boy!

 

[schiker]

I know some dragsters use alcohol fuel but.... in the the context of normal everyday/everywhere gas stations 87, 89, or 92/93 octane doesn't 100% gasoline make more power and get better MPG than ethanol added gas? What are the benefits to ethanol mix anyway? I always assumed it had some dispersal/cleaner properties but was a gov't / epa dream more or less when they outlawed some of the Tri&%$#*&^ ? chemicals from gasoline ???

First I have heard of mixing Statron and Stabil/Marine Stabil causes harm? Or the new 360 formula? I don't know. Can you explain that some more? Here is one recent hit on the subject not sure if its 100% - clipped from an iboat forum post ~ 5 yrs old - (Post 7)......

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...ngine-topics/439392-sta-bil-star-tron-or-both

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Re: Sta-bil, Star Tron, or Both?

Neither product will prevent phase separation, so you' re looking for a fuel stabilizer/ carbon guard

According to the MSDS of both products, both products are 95% or more Naptha. Stabil list the remaining 5% is a corrosion inhibitor. Startron lists the remaining 0.5% as a proprietary enzyme.
The napth in both products is used as the stabilizer and carbon inhibitor. Stabil, is advertised as a stablizer. Startron, is marketed as a miracle cure for all that ails your fuel.

The decision boils down to, do you want the extra corrosion inhibitors in your tank or do you believe Stratron’s claim that 1/2 of an eye dropper full of this miracle enzyme in 100 gallons of fuel will…. “clean the entire fuel delivery system, removing performance robbing gum and varnish deposits while modifying how gas and diesel burn, this results in more complete and uniform combustion and therefore better fuel economy”
E-10 fuel does the exact same thing to your fuel delivery system so I’d be inclined to use Stabil and leave the enzymes for my septic tank.

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[schiker]

I would hate to think I am damaging my equipment. Again I don't know just googling. The guy is sorta right but not exactly

Sta-bil 60-70%
CAS No.: 64742-47-8 Chemical Nameistillates (petroleum),hydrotreated light (US product)

Star-tron 90-95%
CAS No.:64742-48-9 Chemical Name:Naphtha (petroleum),hydrotreated heavy (AP product)

I guess the remaining ingredients could not mix well but both claim to mix ok with Gasoline or Gasoline/Ethanol. Both safe to use in 4 stroke or 2 stroke.

Starton says overdose ok. Sta-bil has everyday dose and storage dose. I think within reason is probably ok to overdose. It does not say to NOT OVERDOSE like Sta-bil Diesel treatment does.