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DS4 going to become obselete?

MrMarty51

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So I called and talked to Badger diesel, his website said he had new pumps for $1200. Turns out his website is a little outdated the price was $1350. And he'd just sold his last new one. He did say the newest pumps weren't as good of quality as as the older ones which are made offshore. He did volunteer he had a new older version so we struck a deal where he's going to put the upgraded hardened parts in it minus a pmd for $1300
Guess it would be a real good idea to get one ordered now, with the uprated components and minus the PMD, just for the just in case, or, install the new pump and get the old one rebuilt, have it in the box waiting.
 

schiker

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Take it for what its worth according to wikipedia - " The Humvee is expected to remain in U.S. military service until at least 2050.[44] Ambulance variants of the Humvee will especially remain in active use, as the JLTV couldn't be modified to serve as one due to weight issues.[45]"

So at least retrofitting a db might be an option if the DS IP goes defunct.
 

Will L.

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Here’s my take. The new owners have the capacity just not the desire to make them. If enough people call them looking to order parts, they could realize that it is worth producing.
Now, a bunch of people calling but no one actually putting money down might not have affect, but if people are serious and 50 folks jumped in on a group buy...
Maybe getting all the serious people from here, hummer forums, page, etc to so so- ??

Outside of the new owners, the machining work that is required to make the components that need replacing can all be made. True, back 30 years ago it was the very elite machine shops that could do it. But there are tons of machine shops nowdays that could do it. The price compared to what everyone paid 6 months ago might be higher but could well be done. One of the 6.5 parts suppliers could make the investment and corner the market if they tie in with a quality pump builder. Maybe a specific pump builder could do it too.

In talking about this the idea of patent infringement came into question- I dont think that would be any concern provided the parts are sold advertised as aftermarket components not trying to say they are Stanandyne parts. Just like buying any aftermarket engine part.

@Twisted Steel Performance
I think you better get ready to start coating a lot of IP parts so folks can get long life out of them. My fingers are crossed you’ll figure out building up the head/rotor surface with some coatings like the bearing backer one and bearing surface one on top maybe. Haha
 

KrisML

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AK you don't need me to look for a pump then?

FWIW I have a brand spanking new DB4 IP that I'd sell. Its spendy though $2500
DB4s can put out stupid amounts of fuel.

A competent machine shop should easily be able to make any internal parts. The problem becomes cost. It can get very expensive custom making parts. Even more so if the place has the means to digitally scan the worn part and create a new one to proper size from it.
 

Big T

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Big T your getting your numbers and letters mixed up. His pump that was $1500 was a ds4. The db4 he's talking about is a mechanical 4 plunger pump which is hard to find
Yeah they do have me confused. Original post title is DS4 and the thread shifts to DB4. So which one is it?
 

Will L.

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there is also a db0 which could be had as 2,4,or 6. Stupid rare and I had a 6 plunger once. Ya know that saying ya don’t know what ya got till it’s gone... sigh...

Can the ds4 that are 24volt that came on the p400 be converted to 12v by interchanging components?
A guy from the hummer forum spent 3 hours on phone w/ me today and part of it was his buying a 20 hour test p400 for $6,000 from urova with a 24v ds4. When he gets back to where it’s at he will take pics and of course I talked to him about signing up here and sharing his story.

I dont know pumps well. I get the concepts but don’t really know them.
But I do understand some machinist info, and know a couple amazing level machinsts.

Can anyone find specs on the head and rotor?

Does anyone have a head and rotor worn to far to use that we could get specs from, pictures of the wear, etc?

I know people here tried to open up the 31’s larger some time back and iirc said it failed. I would like to see pics of that if anyone has them.

Sometimes it is at the failure of the old weak point that the creative fix makes the improvements.
 

nobby

Old Timey Diesel Guy
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So the rights got purchased and along with it a whole bunch of parts. Well they ain't going to make a bunch off stuff of the bat until they see how fast the stock flies of the shelf. Not sure if we are technically at panic stations yet. At the worst I'd offer that pumps will remain rebuildable within the generic market as many older pumps and injectors are, sure you'll have less of a lifespan but I doubt this is a final nail in the coffin for 6.5's and other like equipped engines.

Cheers
Nobby
 

ak diesel driver

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The first shortage I see coming is new heads and rotors. I imagine we'll see alot of hard hot starts in the future. Warmer areas probably won't have the issues us colder areas that have thinner winter fuel
 

Big T

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The first shortage I see coming is new heads and rotors. I imagine we'll see alot of hard hot starts in the future. Warmer areas probably won't have the issues us colder areas that have thinner winter fuel
Les, how cold has it been for you lately? I’ve seen a poster from North Pole, AK on a Toyota 4Runner Forum say that he found that the temp reading bottoms at -40 F on the 4Runner, because it got down to -50 F.
 

THEFERMANATOR

FRANKENBURBAN
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there is also a db0 which could be had as 2,4,or 6. Stupid rare and I had a 6 plunger once. Ya know that saying ya don’t know what ya got till it’s gone... sigh...

Can the ds4 that are 24volt that came on the p400 be converted to 12v by interchanging components?
A guy from the hummer forum spent 3 hours on phone w/ me today and part of it was his buying a 20 hour test p400 for $6,000 from urova with a 24v ds4. When he gets back to where it’s at he will take pics and of course I talked to him about signing up here and sharing his story.

I dont know pumps well. I get the concepts but don’t really know them.
But I do understand some machinist info, and know a couple amazing level machinsts.

Can anyone find specs on the head and rotor?

Does anyone have a head and rotor worn to far to use that we could get specs from, pictures of the wear, etc?

I know people here tried to open up the 31’s larger some time back and iirc said it failed. I would like to see pics of that if anyone has them.

Sometimes it is at the failure of the old weak point that the creative fix makes the improvements.
As far as I know a 24 volt ds4 from a military engine can be swapped over to 12 volts by changing the fsd/pmd and the fuel shutoff solenoid. Now your question is different in that you asked about a p400's pump. The p400 comes with a proprietary pump that is not a standard ds4. It says its a ds4, but that is where the similarities end. The p400 ds4 uses a different solenoid, head, rotor, and plungers iirc from the rest of the ds4. It is actually a hybrid of the ds4 and the higher output DE pump. Thats how they got the extra fuel, but it requires custom tuning as the p400 uses a Caterpillar ECM if what I read was true. So you have to know what you're working with before you attempt it.
 
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