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DB2 Conversion questions

mpg and cold starts are important to me, and both are high points of the DS4. I guess my DS4 love comes from my fantastic luck with PMDs, once I put Leroy's kit on, I have never had to replace it ever again on any of the rigs. In fact, I do something that even makes Leroy nervous: embark on a 1000 plus mile journey with no spare PMD. :)

Also, I like a little bit of computer intervention in case I am an idiot and am not paying attention to guages. :)

IMO this was GM's first crack at a fly by wire diesel, and while there is the one major problem on Stanadynes end of the deal, I felt GM had alot of stuff overdone (the throttle pedal system) for durability, reliability, and safety. Maybe alot of it came from Detroit diesel, or at least leftover engineering ideas?

Many large manufacturers tended to overbuild their first crack at a electronic controlled item. I hate John Deere, but I will use them as a example. the 4960 was their large MFWD tractor into the 90s, and had a sprinkling of electronics, but not very much. the 8000 series was a clean slate new design and launched in the mid 90s, and was highly electronically controlled. They are well known for their reliability, because Deere knew to get it right and retain, if not gain, customers due to the reliability.

Fast forward to today, the new Deeres are loaded with wimpy electronics, and are not even close to the reliability of the 8000, and few want to admit it.

Detroit hit a home run with the Series 60 truck engine, it seemed to be awesome right out of the gate. They did try a few things out (DDEC I electronic injection system) on the last of the 2 cycles, likely to make sure things were gonna work for the Series 60.

IMO the 1990s was about the end of the "build it to last" mentality and I feel it carries over into quite a few different diesels across the industry, including our beloved 6.5Ls.

Plus, you feel like Mr. Sulu keeping the Enterprise aloft when the reactor core is all fubared. :) Annoying, but impressive that the old girl will stay running when the whole system is on borderline failure. This was on the 98 bomber farm truck, and I am thinking its an ignition switch. we will see. :) she was down to about 20 mph tops, about 30 RWHP, codes flying, etc. I knew I had a potential issue before departing, but went anyways, and sweet talked her all the way home. about a 160 mile round trip... a little much to ask of a 500 dollar pickup... :)
 
@GM Guy I know where you head is at with the DS4 (in good operating condition). I will miss the ability to have my on demand high idle switch. Although the DB2 is able with the solenoid, the ability to fit it in there with the bracket is probably not too easy. Other than that, I can do without all the other quirks.

I have a couple of Heath's PMD relocation kits. Some of which have followed me from truck to truck. Lots of years/mileage on both. I still have had to change PMDs on the plates, a lot less often obviously, but doesn't completely eliminate the problem. The DB2 will eliminate that problem completely.

As for the Deere's, the current prices of the 4000 series tractors (4450, 4455 etc.) just goes to show you how well built and desirable the older machines are. I know out west is an entirely different ball game, but here in the North East those tractors are still in high demand. Then look at the 4020/4230 tractors bringing more money now than they did when new! Minimal electronics, emissions, and a high build quality is a great mix (along with a large displacement mechanical injected diesel). Our newest tractor (Case JX1070) has way more electronics than I would like, but still is pre-emissions era. As the same with our DS4 trucks, most problems seem to trace back to faulty electronics.

-Nick
 
If you can get a DB2 truck started: it will run till it's out of fuel, blows the engine completely up, or you shut it off. The DS4 systems didn't monitor or prevent any damage to the engine the most common being overheating. 'I have a sensor fubared so I limp the engine' is only protecting it from the malfunctioning electronics. If the engine runs away the ECM isn't going to shut off the fuel shut off solenoid on the DS4.

You adjust the DB2 a little more often. I have a good example of a DB2 truck starting perfectly so my thoughts of a DS4 starting better no longer applies.

The constant random "fishbite" from a DS4 is not missed even with a worn DB2. IMO the electronics test itself with a fishbite just to verify s#its working aka a diagnostic test.

The ONLY advantage I ever had with a DS4 was the ability to flip to a "can't even get over the rollers" no power tune for snap testing and then back without ripping the pump apart to get to the fuel screw.

@GM Guy the entire "Enterprise" saga is just that. The mechanical Klingon Battleship would have blown the malfunctioning Enterprise out of the galaxy like target practice. No ignition switch, no grounds, no PMD, no PMD extension harness, no filter harness, No optical sensor, no APP sensor... Each and every part with trons brings a unique single point of failure. Just saying a DB2 equipped truck wouldn't have the described problems. Combine this with the unreliable high power PMD design GM started with and it's no wonder the DB2 is preferred.


On the flip side gasoline fuel injection and electronic ignition (except the very early trouble prone years that experienced high module failures.) are leaps and bounds more reliable than the carb equipped engines of the past. This includes nearly zero adjustments. The fuel injected engines start quickly without the throttle pumping of the carb engines esp with high miles.
 
Also, right now the DB2 is the only option available to us if you want to be able to "Go Plaid" (trying to stay with your Space Balls theme there :D:D), although some smart guys are diligently working on this now and I suspect will eventually get the DS4 to put out some serious fuel sooner rather than later. Then there will be some serious considerations to make: risk the problems that @WarWagon has described above in order to have a cleaner running 6.5 or save the money & potential problems and keep it simple. The reason I say "cleaner running", is because having the fuel boost-referenced will keep from having the big, black cloud billow out of the tail pipe when you tromp on the go pedal before the turbo spools up. Mine is obnoxious enough sometimes that the extra headaches associated with the DS4 might be worth it....
 
I never got the DS4 1995 burb of mine cleaned up real well. Other setups may have better luck. There appears to be a Hypermax smoke puff limiter for DB2 pumps that bring the fuel on with boost. At least one 6.5 truck has one as they are more common on DB2 Ford "Moose pump" builds.
 
I never got the DS4 1995 burb of mine cleaned up real well. Other setups may have better luck. There appears to be a smoke puff limiter for DB2 pumps that bring the fuel on with boost. At least one 6.5 truck has one as they are more common on DB2 Ford "Moose pump" builds.
Yeah, that's me :cool:. I have the Puff Limiter and it does help, but it isn't a perfect solution. The thing I have found lately is that I can use my electronic boost controller to run different set points for the Puff Limiter to open when weather conditions warrant. When it's cooler out I can run it wide open because it spools quick and there's lots of air available, but when it's hotter out I can dial it back to open later.....but at the expense of some low-end power. I talked to a guy that is doing DS4 tunes that has it boost-referenced so well that when a customer blew their intake boot the truck still didn't blow black - that sounds like progress to me.
 
I have never seen him push his products on anybody. He Just tried to help others who had questions when it came to tuning.
@n8in8or you are to right, he is very smart when it comes to these trucks whether it be obd1 or obd2. I talked to him quit a bit about what I wanted to do with my truck.
Some on the other site was jealous of his success I think. That's just my opinion.
 
worst part about any of the sites is just about the time it's starting to look like you might could make a go of it the ugly "not a vendor" head gets raised. Personally I think there ought to be someway to give those guys trying to do all that R&D a break for at least awhile to be able to get their head above water. I don't think this should apply to guys just selling parts, just the guys doing the R&D
 
Can anyone tell me if the CPS serves any purpose after this conversion? I know the cold advance for the pump is run via the HPCA, but is the CPS still used for the glow plug circuit? Thinking I might just replace it while I'm in here as it is so easy to get to now.

Also, if I were to find a wire harness from a 93' DB equipped truck would it be plug and play to the harness behind the fuel filter? I see the entire harness in the engine valley all originates from that one connector. I'm just trying to eliminate as much under hood wiring as possible. Thanks

-Nick
 
Can anyone tell me if the CPS serves any purpose after this conversion? I know the cold advance for the pump is run via the HPCA, but is the CPS still used for the glow plug circuit? Thinking I might just replace it while I'm in here as it is so easy to get to now.

Also, if I were to find a wire harness from a 93' DB equipped truck would it be plug and play to the harness behind the fuel filter? I see the entire harness in the engine valley all originates from that one connector. I'm just trying to eliminate as much under hood wiring as possible. Thanks

-Nick
CPS? Crank Position Sensor? I use my Crank Position Sensor to give an RPM signal to the Opti-Shift transmission controller.
 
CPS? Crank Position Sensor? I use my Crank Position Sensor to give an RPM signal to the Opti-Shift transmission controller.

Yes, the crank position sensor. I have a manual transmission so I'm not worried about the transmission inputs.

But since you mentioned RPM's.....does the tach receive signal from the CPS or the alternator? I wouldn't want to lose that function.

-Nick
 
Yes, the crank position sensor. I have a manual transmission so I'm not worried about the transmission inputs.

But since you mentioned RPM's.....does the tach receive signal from the CPS or the alternator? I wouldn't want to lose that function.

-Nick
Oh shoot, sorry I missed that detail. The tach runs off of the alternator, so you'll be good to go.

Since you asked about glow plugs: with the Coolant Temperature Sensor and Intake Air Temperature Sensor unhooked, the glow plug circuit thinks it's super cold out and runs the maximum time in the program. As long as you have self-limiting glow plugs you should be ok. Mine run for a long time, but I just start it when I think it's enough.
 
ZOMBIE THREAD WARNING

No, I don’t have one for sale.
This issue is always popping up for someone trying to cool their 6.5 and I get questions.
The 12551519 is the number for the first 3 months of 1996- the rare one. The stat housing that came with it is 12554527. Sorry I confused the number in the beginning of the thread. In dont have a pic of it but Leroy Diesel shows one in his YouTube video on crossovers.
I might have to search a replacement- a dear friend called in a panic, his got broke by a mechanic and they tried welding it up 3 times before condemning it, So mine made a trip a few months back to a new owner. Really hoping my more common 23500374 will fit. I just can’t remember how tight it is past the a/c compressor.
There is one on ebay at the moment for just under $300 if anyone NEEDS it. Ouch.
 
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