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Battery reviews

RI Chevy Silveradoman

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JayTheCPA

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$1200 a battery!!! WTF
Sure, painful up-front cost.

But, if that battery is LiFePO4 and it lives up to common specs, it will cost a lot less in the long run when compared to lead as it has the potential to replace both of the lead batteries and outlive them by a magnitude of many replacement cycles. Total weight (presuming it does replace both batteries) is ~1/4 of the lead bank. Whether this is useful in a tow vehicle application is an open question. Marine and RV sectors love LiFPO4 due to the lifecycle cost savings, significant reduction in weight, and significantly faster recharge times (which saves fuel when using generators to charge).

Theoretically, LiFePO4 can help the diesel platforms which use dual lead batteries, but there are supporting mods such as an external regulator which monitors the battery's ability to charge and keeps the alternator from overheating. Another question is whether the vehicle's wiring is sufficient to now use just one battery for power demands of the engine start cycle.

FWIW, am seriously considering LiFePO4 for my SOB truck. Sure, a starting weight of ~8K#'s is a good bit of truck, but a weight diet of ~100 pounds is just that much less that the engine has to deal with :)
 
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JayTheCPA

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Life in a tow vehicle for a LiFePO4 is likely decades.

So far, the recognized factor that eats the LiFePO4 is charge cycle; same for the lead battery. When comparing the lead battery charge cycle, IIRC LiFePO4 can live through at least 3 lead bank replacements. But back to the truck application, we do not cycle the charge anywhere near what a RV or boat typically does, so this puts the truck application into somewhat unknown territory of how long the LiFePO4 can physically last.
 

WarWagon

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I'm in need of 2 battery's, I have given most all brands a try and they all seem to fail a bit early.

So this time I'm going with a AGM, haven't tried them yet, I searched for the best warranty and I think I stumbled across my next purchase, at first glance they are expensive, but they cary a full 60 month warranty, not prorated a full 100% replacement, and are claimed 1050cca, And they are having a 17% off sale today only, so that puts them in line cost wise with other brands I have considered, so I'm clicking the button me thinks....

https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sli78agmdp
To be clear we are talking about: batteriesplus.com SLI78AGMDP X2Power Premium AGM BCI Group 78 Car and Truck Battery

This is a relabeled Northstar battery with 1 extra year of warranty from Batteries Plus (vs. just the 4 years from battery maker).

The plot thickens as EnerSys, Aka makers of Odyssey, bought out Northstar and switched them (factories etc.) over to EnerSys designs/production per the article below.




Heat kills batteries quick. About high temperature making short life of batteries: From page 23 I added "⁰F". How hot does it get under the hood with the AC on? The condenser runs at 160F at idle and then there is the engine radiator, intercooler, oil coolers... And then it never cools off much here.

https://lifelinebatteries.com/knowledge-center/

https://321166-984045-raikfcquaxqnc...F-Lifeline-Technical-Manual-Final-5-06-19.pdf

Battery calendar and cycle life are also affected by temperature. As a rule of thumb, the battery life decreases by 50% for every 10⁰C rise in temperature. Thus, a battery that lasts 6 years at 25⁰C (77F) will last 3 years at 35⁰C (95F), 1.5 years at 45⁰C (113F), and 0.75 years at 55⁰C (131F). Similarly, a battery that lasts 1000 cycles at 25⁰C will last 500 cycles at 35⁰C, 250 cycles at 45⁰C, and 125 cycles at 55⁰C.
 
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Will L.

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Thats nuts, $1200 per battery.
My optimas last me (and others here) over a decade and yellow top at $258 right now is
$28 per year for a decade. Even if you cut the life in half and got 5 years thats $56 per year.
At $1200 thats 21.4 years just to catch up to optima. (Really 41+ years for me) Plus you have to average in The cost of the different charging system. So tack on 5 more years for that. So yeah you need 2.5-4.5 decades just to be equal to optima. So I guess if you are building a truck that you start driving on your 25th birthday and drive it until you are 75 years old- maybe you might be ahead a little.

Until you figure out that if the same extra $2,200 more than two yellow tops and invest it it low yield return of 2% for that time it will literally be over a quarter of a million dollars.


And btw, anyone ever use a lithium cordless drill? Good near full power until the next time you squeeze the trigger and completely dead. So not like that is any better than AGM. That part is worse.

No, unless you are spending tens of thousands of dollars to shave micro seconds out of the parts of the race- it just isn’t smart.
If 100# makes a difference in a pickup- I hate to see what happens when you tow or make a load of material from Home Depot.
 

FellowTraveler

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To be clear we are talking about: batteriesplus.com SLI78AGMDP X2Power Premium AGM BCI Group 78 Car and Truck Battery

This is a relabeled Northstar battery with 1 extra year of warranty from Batteries Plus (vs. just the 4 years from battery maker).

The plot thickens as EnerSys, Aka makers of Odyssey, bought out Northstar and switched them (factories etc.) over to EnerSys designs/production per the article below.




Heat kills batteries quick. About high temperature making short life of batteries: From page 23 I added "⁰F". How hot does it get under the hood with the AC on? The condenser runs at 160F at idle and then there is the engine radiator, intercooler, oil coolers... And then it never cools off much here.

https://lifelinebatteries.com/knowledge-center/

https://321166-984045-raikfcquaxqnc...F-Lifeline-Technical-Manual-Final-5-06-19.pdf

Battery calendar and cycle life are also affected by temperature. As a rule of thumb, the battery life decreases by 50% for every 10⁰C rise in temperature. Thus, a battery that lasts 6 years at 25⁰C (77F) will last 3 years at 35⁰C (95F), 1.5 years at 45⁰C (113F), and 0.75 years at 55⁰C (131F). Similarly, a battery that lasts 1000 cycles at 25⁰C will last 500 cycles at 35⁰C, 250 cycles at 45⁰C, and 125 cycles at 55⁰C.
Lots of good info there.
 

FellowTraveler

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Thats nuts, $1200 per battery.
My optimas last me (and others here) over a decade and yellow top at $258 right now is
$28 per year for a decade. Even if you cut the life in half and got 5 years thats $56 per year.
At $1200 thats 21.4 years just to catch up to optima. (Really 41+ years for me) Plus you have to average in The cost of the different charging system. So tack on 5 more years for that. So yeah you need 2.5-4.5 decades just to be equal to optima. So I guess if you are building a truck that you start driving on your 25th birthday and drive it until you are 75 years old- maybe you might be ahead a little.

Until you figure out that if the same extra $2,200 more than two yellow tops and invest it it low yield return of 2% for that time it will literally be over a quarter of a million dollars.


And btw, anyone ever use a lithium cordless drill? Good near full power until the next time you squeeze the trigger and completely dead. So not like that is any better than AGM. That part is worse.

No, unless you are spending tens of thousands of dollars to shave micro seconds out of the parts of the race- it just isn’t smart.
If 100# makes a difference in a pickup- I hate to see what happens when you tow or make a load of material from Home Depot.
Lest, we forget the dollar is just not worth much these days...so what is viewed as outrageous today will pale when compared to prices in just a few years.
 

JayTheCPA

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At $1200 thats 21.4 years just to catch up to optima.
Will, correct logic path, although the math is off by a factor of 2 in this scenario.

The ~$1K LiFePO4 battery has enough energy density to replace TWO lead counterparts while weighing less than *half* of *one* lead counterpart. Agree that add-on equipment drives-up the price a bit (maybe 10% - 20%) as the LiFePO4 will probably need a DC to DC converter. Also agree that second order benefits of fuel savings are minimal, but they are there as this will translate into less load on the motor and belt.

Do agree that using the expensive LiFePO4 in a single battery system does not make sense unless able to scale down the cost and capacity accordingly.

Toward no warning of a power-tool lithium battery losing charge, not exactly an equal comparison. LiFePO4 systems usually come with a monitoring system which will communicate the state of charge. The DIY kits charge do not include monitoring capability (so it is an extra cost) and the more costly products are all-inclusive by including monitoring capability.

Even with the all-in costs, if a LiFePO4 can throw the CCAs that I need and presuming the vehicle's cables can handle it (versus the OE dual battery system spreading the load over two sets of cables), there is a good likelihood that I will move away from lead in the SOB tow rig. Besides, it is not like I will toss out good lead batteries as they are currently dead and need replacement anyway. Only downside I can see is by towing trailers with a lead battery as the charge profile is incompatible.
 

Will L.

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Jay, if ya do it- do a write up. I grew up in Vegas so it doesn’t scare me to watch people gamble.

Yes I forgot you only need one battery instead of two. And the added weight of the inverter for charging can be offset by removing weight of the other two cables and 1 battery tray. Idk if you could save 100 lbs, maybe. The one listed vs 2 yellow tops is 50lbs difference. And I am gonna wholly disagree about fuel savings over 100 lbs in a truck. Also the electrical consumption is the same so belt wear and load should remain the same.- If your lights draw 100 watts, and your alternator has to replenish 100 watts, it doesn’t matter if a battery is there or not. So lead acid/agm/lithium,etc won’t lessen the load. Unless it is a different alternator you install that is much higher efficiency. The fan is your big power draw on your belt.

The different 6.5 rigs I had the hummer is the worst mpg. But my 99 3500- at one point i drove around with 600 lbs in the bed for almost 3 months. It didn’t affect mpg at all. Try doing a tank full, getting mpg. Then add 100lbs in the bed and try again. I would be amazed if you see any difference at all.
 
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