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ARP main stud instructions

Will L.

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Thank you.
Amazing to me that there is different torque specs from different sources. It shouldn’t be however- like I noticed your manual has a different temperature range allowed from other 6.5 manuals. It’s like fox vs cnn vs cbs- WE think its THIS. Haha.

If anyone else has a different manual showing different specs, please let me know. I want to cover as many bases as I can before starting incase there is some other method or spec shown to try to put them in the chart.

Something that has become clear is all head bolts, main cap bolts, and rod bolts should only be used 1 time. There are manuals that said things like apply new sealant to reuse, but later they learned they fail. So they should always be replaced if using the factory bolts. I have (in the fleet) re used them and had it be ok. I’ve also had engines later get the main web cracks and those had reused main bolts because that was recomend back then- hind site tells me that could have been a major contributor.

Not the target on this thread, but want to point out- @Twisted Steel Performance- YES 100% the rod bolts also should be replaced as 1 time use. Same thing, Inhave reused them and got away with it- but if anyone thinks I am going to reuse rod bolts on this engine build? HAHAHA. Go buy some more funny stuff to smoke.

IF A BUDGET DOESNT ALLOW- you do what you have to do. But you better put some red locktite in your budget and consider dimpling or safety wire where possible. Like dimple the rod fastners and drill and safety wire main caps. Yes it is more time, but if you haven’t enough money you better put in time.
 
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Will L.

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Lee (CMRA screen name) from HML/ Hummernetworkforum sent pic verifying 2002 was same as the 2004 pics I posted above.
 

Will L.

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Ok. Last call for this-
The thing that surprises me is the 10 mm bolts- only thing I find anywhere says 30ft lbs
On factory bolts. Can anyone find anything different?

Quadstar instructions have 10mm (arp studs) at 50. When done with all normal testing I will do studs up over that even and record. Then I will see what torque is required on bolt to equal clamp force of studs at 50. Hopefully I don't send bolt head like a bullet!

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LABELED FROM GEP. Anyone?
@Burning oil @Twisted Steel Performance
You two are my best hope for GEP info.
 
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Will L.

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Ok, some numbers on paper. Then one if you trouble makers (haha) asked about lube on factory bolt threads in a text. Ready to test the factory 10mm bolt and looking for oiling info. I can not find any. Anyone have anything?

instructions say oil bearings but not threads I can find. Head bolts are different but looks to me like dry main bolts.

the details like torque and oil used as lube- I always read the manual as I go because so many engines are different I never try to remember these items.

I can do one dry and one wet. But if wet what oil- 30wt?
 

Will L.

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Using arp lube on arp studs because that is how it is speced.

But if you have a factory bolt designed to be torqued with the threads dry, and you add lube it will tighten much more than it is supposed to. So say 100 lbs it spec dry and it makes EXAMPLE ONLY- 10,000 lbs clamp force. Now add lube and the bolt will turn another 180° At the same 100 lbs. so now clamp force could be 14,000 lbs.
So you NEVER should add lube if specs do not call for it. Also if it calls for 10wt and you use 50wt - again it will over tighten the fastener.
Every single class I had from Jr high and up - the #1 mistake made by new mechanics is over tightening.

On the opposite, if it is supposed to be lubed to get to the 14,000 lbs area and you go dry, the 10,000 lbs clamp force can fail. So again it is by the design.
 

Husker6.5

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Yeah. I don't recall seeing in my 98 Factory shop manual anything specific for rod and main bolts. It's getting late, I'll look in my book tomorrow morning to see what it says for lube (if any) and torque specs for the rod, main and head bolts.
 

Will L.

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So here I am testing with the 10mm.
The gauge has been calibrated to the cylinder. Active cylinder area X psi = clamp force.

But the 10mm numbers come in so low that I am going to keep the recoded numbers from it, and move to a lower pressure gauge to try getting super accurate readings so we can can super accurate specs.

DONT put these numbers in stone, I will verify and be more accurate tomorrow. This is to wet your whistles and make you think about torque vs clamp and stress.
As soon as I did the bolt and saw the range of torque to force- I knew my idea of doing 20lbs, 30 lbs, 40lbs, etc on the stud would not cut it. Equal torque spec is going to be somewhere around 22 or 23 lbs torqueFactory achieve roughly 2500 lbs clamp force. We all know studs apply so much more force but just wow. The 50 lbs torque on the stud is somewhere around an astonishing 7,000 lbs clamp.

I will test 1 lbs increments from 20 to 30 on stud to get exact spec.

The 12mm numbers will tell what the older 6.2/6.5 clamped at but GM dropped size and torque to lessen main web stress. So for those shooting for stock clamp the stress will be insanely less. For those shooting for same stress in block but more clamp on maincaps to keep cap walk down will have a wide range to choose from.

So start pondering is more clamp force and same stress your key, or same clamp force and far less stress your key. Maybe in the middle somewhere?

Tonight is done. Anyone hit me w/ any questions or info you have.
33F3C340-D5F4-4A56-8D13-D9DE0146142F.png
 

n8in8or

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D’OH!! I totally forgot that I had a set of 1994 C/K service manual set. It says to apply engine oil to the threads of the main bearing cap bolts.

6C582114-B458-4F98-9549-64A89319D12A.jpegB2B04AA6-6991-4C6F-B8B9-B53588ADEBF7.jpeg069BA2A7-7389-4256-883A-E35944F68E58.jpeg47F887A9-723C-4F31-8DFF-9361E5BCB18B.jpeg
 

MrMarty51

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I am thinking that most all torque specs for, at least the older, GM vehicles is all with lubricated threads unless other wise stated. Just seems I read that in a GM manual oncet uponet time.
 

MrMarty51

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The one Nate found from 94 clearly says use oil.
All the other ones I found does not say to use it, from gm, hummer, military.

So I will do testing dry and wet.
I have a couple of pages of torque charts given to each of us mechs that worked in the shop. The torque charts gives two numbers to set torque at, one setting is for dry threads and the other is for lubed threads. there is quite a big difference between the dry and the lube settings.
And that brings Me to another dilemma, what about thread locker, before that stuff sets up, it too would be a lube of sorts and could possibly mess with torque settings. This would probably not apply to the ARP torque setting because I am sure that they have taken into consideration the lubricity of the thread locker.
 

Twisted Steel Performance

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I doubt you could get consistent stretch without oiling the threads, too much of the torque would be lost in the threads against the block threads.. I know with studs you want to sand one side of the washer, the side sitting on the surface and apply a small amount of lube on the top so the washer doesn't turn while torquing..
 

Rockabillyrat

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I remember watching a segment on one of those tv car shows that compared thread lubricates. They torqued to the same value multiple times and measured the clamping force each time. If I remember correctly they did dry, oiled, molylube, ARP ultra torque on a new bolt. The ARP was the only one to give consistent clamping force numbers.
 

Will L.

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Yes, saw that too.
arp is the most consistent but is more lubricant than oil so using arp where it calls for oil will change values.

I am stuck again at the moment so no progress yet. Sorry, everything is just blowing up on me. I’ll post when more happens
 

EWC

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So just to be sure , you are measuring clamping force ? Do you plan to measure elongation with respect to torque or force ?
 

Will L.

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My spreadsheet skills need help, but here it is.
I know the site looses pics sometimes. Is there a way it can be typed out, emailed or something so the info doesn’t get lost incase pic dies?
 
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