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advice on ip for a 93

Jakec

Jakec

Member
Messages
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Location
Pensacola, Fla
my ip is going out on my truck. have to pour water on it for it to hot start but itll start every time. this motor has 275k miles on it and runs great. im just starting to look at pumps and realized I have no idea what im looking at. this is my first diesel so I figured I would beg for wisdom and guidance from the gurus on here before I spend a bunch of cash on the wrong stuff.
 
well today I put a new starter on it and now the hot start issue is gone. before it wouldn't start hot unless I poured water on the ip but when i did it started up every single time. I thought that meant the ip was going? could it have been the starter causing the no hot start issue? too much compression for the weak starter without the glow plugs help? man it don't even get a full revolution in before it fires off now. like a different truck.
 
You need a fast cranking rpm for a good start. Happy to hear as a starter is cheaper than an IP.
 
NVW said:
You need a fast cranking rpm for a good start. Happy to hear as a starter is cheaper than an IP.
Click to expand...

learn something new every day! hell i didnt even know it was cranking slow. it was cranking as good as my gas trucks do. i was not looking forward to dropping the ip money.
 
Dude, thats awesome, BUT... If cold water made it easier to start take this as a warning. Unless the water was getting to the starter cooling it off, there is no way cooling the ip will help a toasy starter unless the ip is worn also.

Get a fuel pressure gauge on there, or at least do the test of opening the water drain while idleing. Start saving the nickles for the IP. Look for people/ companies that did takeoffs from hmmwvs, and you can swap out the 24v parts or your 12v stuff. Cash in hand and patience in looking is how you find the good deals.
 
You need 100 RPM cold and 150 RPM hot minimum to start. You can hear the RPM difference by ear. If it isn't spinning fast enough all you are doing is burning things out as it simply will not start. So get AAA membership and tow it home so you can diagnose it and fix it. AAA Membership means you don't have to ruin $400 in parts desperately trying to save a $100 tow bill. (And wind up towing it anyway after ruining said parts. AAA Helps keep blood pressure down.) I don't think replacing the starter is fun and attempting to start a diesel when things are not going to fire results in burning the starter up. Example of crispy starter here. A single failed battery or 1 of 4 brushes in the starter failing will spin the engine, but, not fast enough to start.

Don't spend $1200 in parts (IP) because the $200 in lift pump parts failed. I am here to tell you that the cold water trick absolutely applies to "the F$%^& Lift Pump Died AGAIN!" I have a graveyard of all kinds of lift pumps and was happy to get 3 months out of one hauling 550 miles a day. (Till I dropped a Walbro on that is.) The oil pressure switch that also works the gauge is known to burn up. Under load you get 7volts at the lift pump, but, 12v open circuit because the contacts burnt up. (No 7v means the lift pump won't work due to lack of current through burnt OPS contacts.) Replace OPS and suddenly you have a working lift pump. A OPS relay kit is a good idea.

As noted above get a pressure gauge on the fuel system to see what it is doing.
Last time the fuel filter was replaced? Note with a bad lift pump changing the fuel filter or opening the water drain will loose the fuel system prime and give you a no start. Be careful here and test the LP pressure first.

Are you running lube in your fuel? ULSD is NOT the diesel these engines were built to run on. Lube your fuel or replace IP's more often: I suggest fuel lube is cheaper.
 
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Reactions: NVW
sctrailrider said:
And I guess their was also a bolt & small bracket bolted at the front of your starter like their should be right....
Click to expand...

no there wasn't. there is a little stud on the front of the new starter but no bracket. ill get to looking for one.

WarWagon said:
You need 100 RPM cold and 150 RPM hot minimum to start. You can hear the RPM difference by ear. If it isn't spinning fast enough all you are doing is burning things out as it simply will not start. So get AAA membership and tow it home so you can diagnose it and fix it. AAA Membership means you don't have to ruin $400 in parts desperately trying to save a $100 tow bill. (And wind up towing it anyway after ruining said parts. AAA Helps keep blood pressure down.) I don't think replacing the starter is fun and attempting to start a diesel when things are not going to fire results in burning the starter up. Example of crispy starter here. A single failed battery or 1 of 4 brushes in the starter failing will spin the engine, but, not fast enough to start.

Don't spend $1200 in parts (IP) because the $200 in lift pump parts failed. I am here to tell you that the cold water trick absolutely applies to "the F$%^& Lift Pump Died AGAIN!" I have a graveyard of all kinds of lift pumps and was happy to get 3 months out of one hauling 550 miles a day. (Till I dropped a Walbro on that is.) The oil pressure switch that also works the gauge is known to burn up. Under load you get 7volts at the lift pump, but, 12v open circuit because the contacts burnt up. (No 7v means the lift pump won't work due to lack of current through burnt OPS contacts.) Replace OPS and suddenly you have a working lift pump. A OPS relay kit is a good idea.

As noted above get a pressure gauge on the fuel system to see what it is doing.
Last time the fuel filter was replaced? Note with a bad lift pump changing the fuel filter or opening the water drain will loose the fuel system prime and give you a no start. Be careful here and test the LP pressure first.

Are you running lube in your fuel? ULSD is NOT the diesel these engines were built to run on. Lube your fuel or replace IP's more often: I suggest fuel lube is cheaper.
Click to expand...

I thought the cold water trick was for the injection pump? I haven't done anything to the lift pump. a friend of mine got stuck on the side of the road at midnight because of a bad lift pump so I plan to get one to keep in the toolbox.

no idea on the last fuel filter change. I got the truck in april and I haven't done it yet. will be done soon.

I run lucas fuel treatment in my fuel. I usually run off road diesel. I know people that say its the same as regular diesel except for the dye but my truck runs noticeably better on the off road stuff. off road fuel still gets lucas treatment.
 
Jakec- you are SOOOO LUCKY! With out that bracket you can break the ear of the block completely off without that little bracket. Seriously, if you have another car to drive until you get it installed, use the other car. No extra driving you dont have to.
 
id rather be lucky than good every time! got the dually parked till the support comes in. I sure am glad it didn't break off already.
 
Jakec said:
I thought the cold water trick was for the injection pump?
Click to expand...

It is, however, several problems are cured by the risky cold water trick. There isn't a fixed line in the sand of when you replace a worn IP. The cold water trick risks seizing the head and rotor in the IP. (Nothing like killing the patient, eh?) The military engines I got had "Do not wash engine" painted on the air cleaners. All the trick does is tighten the tolerances and thicken the thin hot fuel to colder thicker fuel. Worn head and rotor or bad lift pump all are helped to make enough pressure and volume to pop injectors and spray enough diesel at 150 RPM to start by the risky trick.

A bad lift pump makes it harder on a hot IP to start. The IP may work (start) perfectly with a good lift pump. Some won't start at all even when near new without a working lift pump.

I check lift pump pressure at every oil change with a pressure vacuum gauge. These IP's return a stupid high amount of fuel to the tank by design so snap the engine to full RPM and make sure the pressure doesn't fall completely off or go into a vacuum. The amount of fuel used is small vs. the amount returned so no load in park snap to Full Governed RPM and leave it there to take a reading is fine. Others run a gauge or low fuel pressure light setup.

I have run a lot of ruined and worn pumps just by having a good lift pump. Overriding self limiting aftermarket glow plugs is another method to get more miles out of a pump. Make sure you know what glow plug you have in each and every one of the eight cylinders before even thinking about overriding the glow plugs. Worst case swell up and break off making a nice foreign object destroyed engine and turbo mess.

You need to adjust your idle RPM every 6 months. Same for the cold start idle RPM. You then need to adjust the TPS after the RPM adjustments.

One major wear point is the advance piston. To check if yours is working note the timing retard lever on the passenger side of the pump. Lube the pivot point every 6 months. Note how you open the throttle up and the lever moves. Retard? Like the vacuum advance on a gas engine: more load or throttle means less vacuum and less advance. Yes, heat in the precups is a major factor in ignition delay after the fuel is injected. The hotter the prechamber the faster the fuel lights off after injection. So full throttle needs needs less timing than light throttle. So when you get a screwdriver and press the lever/pin in on the bottom of the pump with the engine at idle it should start to run badly maybe even smoke white. Not enough advance and this means it's working. No change means the advance in the pump needs repair.

If your idle speed changes, higher when completely hot, another fuel viscosity spring is bad in the pump: rebuild it.
 
I wont be overriding anything. I don't trust myself enough on these diesels yet. ill check the advance piston like you described. im leaning towards getting a new pump to install and keep my half worn out but still working pump for a spare.
 
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