Acesneights1
New Member
I had his balanced system. Truck still ran hot towing.
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88894035?
- Thread starter TurboTahoe
- Start date
540s10
New Member
anyone ever explore running two different temp thermostats? say one a 180 and one a 195?
on the dual thermostat trucks?
on the dual thermostat trucks?
Matt Bachand
Depends on the 6.5
I think there is no reason to go 180's.... The 'head start' theory doesn't do much for me.
My opinion is to limit the temperature swings as little as possible. Its also proven that the hotter you run, the more efficient the engine is (economy, mpg).
When the engine is working, having it fluctuate between 190 and 205 is ideal IMO. 205 being when fan engages. That is how I have my rig set up now and I feel really comfortable with it.
Having it 'bounce' between 180 and 205 is just that much more for the metal to expand and contract consistantly. Once you are working the engine to the point where it will break the T-Stats open, and higher, the odds are its not going to stop on its own until you either back off the load, or the clutch kicks in, so why fluctuate the temperatures when the 190's are factory.
I refer to them as 190, as thats what my scanner shows my ECT at idle, and after fan clutch kicks in.
Having a mix, will make it run at the lower T-stat setting, until temps rise enough to open the other, but I don't think the extra flow of the 2nd will make all that much difference, and it will still keep heating up until load backs off or fan kicks in. So it would be basically running at that of the 180 temps.
My opinion is to limit the temperature swings as little as possible. Its also proven that the hotter you run, the more efficient the engine is (economy, mpg).
When the engine is working, having it fluctuate between 190 and 205 is ideal IMO. 205 being when fan engages. That is how I have my rig set up now and I feel really comfortable with it.
Having it 'bounce' between 180 and 205 is just that much more for the metal to expand and contract consistantly. Once you are working the engine to the point where it will break the T-Stats open, and higher, the odds are its not going to stop on its own until you either back off the load, or the clutch kicks in, so why fluctuate the temperatures when the 190's are factory.
I refer to them as 190, as thats what my scanner shows my ECT at idle, and after fan clutch kicks in.
Having a mix, will make it run at the lower T-stat setting, until temps rise enough to open the other, but I don't think the extra flow of the 2nd will make all that much difference, and it will still keep heating up until load backs off or fan kicks in. So it would be basically running at that of the 180 temps.
Big T
Well-Known Member
As I was about to put the t-stats on my cooling upgrade, I could not see the temp rating on the new AC Delco t-stats. So I called Heath and had a good discussion on this subject. I previously had the Robert Shaw 180 t-stats. He said they prefer the 195s by AC Delco, as they provide the best flow, best fuel economy and work best with the fan. He said to try them, while hanging onto the 180s, so I did.
With Heath diesel's recent price increase from the $5xx.00's I would like to know the difference again from a factory 2000 year system as Turbine Doc says there is.
Aka:
"SUPER-COOL" Cooling System Upgrade Single Stat - '92-'96 Single-Thermostat System trucks '92-'96
Our Low Price: Only $629.00 :rippedhand:
I can get a SD clutch, HO pump, and have Ron Davis build me a thicker radiator for this amount of cash.:nonod:
Aka:
"SUPER-COOL" Cooling System Upgrade Single Stat - '92-'96 Single-Thermostat System trucks '92-'96
Our Low Price: Only $629.00 :rippedhand:
I can get a SD clutch, HO pump, and have Ron Davis build me a thicker radiator for this amount of cash.:nonod:
Big T
Well-Known Member
When I recently purchased mine from Heath, I looked at buying the parts separately vs buying from Heath at $589 and the cost difference was minimal. Heath's version of the pump for the dual thermostat set-up does have the orifice on the pump which directs more coolant through the rad. In my discussion with Bill, he stated that the fan supplied is one from a kodiak truck on which the clutch has been engineered to his specs to fit the operating temp profile of the 6.5. Though those two differences do not seem like a lot, I was willing to pay the price difference over buying the parts separately because I now know that it was designed specifically for the 6.5TD with towing in mind. That is what I was paying for.
Acesneights1
New Member
I think the Hayden SD with stock fan worked better but I never got to switch them to confirm.
buddy
Active Member
It looked to me like the threaded orifice was the only true difference. And it looks like Heath made it smaller, instead of the 1" or whatever size its only like 1/4". So then less goes to the drivers side, to balance the flow I suppose.
So for someone with a 2000 year system, is it worth it? I wouldnt think so, but if you have a 94 or 95 it would make more sense.
So for someone with a 2000 year system, is it worth it? I wouldnt think so, but if you have a 94 or 95 it would make more sense.
6.5quest
New Member
I wouldn't worry so much about your water pump unless it is not working and needs to be replaced. Replace your fan and clutch with an upgraded unit and clean your radiator and you shouldn't have any overheating issues. Coolant flow isn't as big of a problem as air flow is with the 6.5. Many people neglect there radiator and AC condensor, it then gets packed full of leaves and other crap thus restricting air flow. Combine that with a junky factory fan and clutch and bingo you have temp issues. I run a factory 95 water pump with heavy duty fan and clutch and have never had my truck overheat.
guybb3
Member
Mine is leaking. That is why I want to get the best one.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
Most times you get what you pay for.....Heaths rep pretty much speaks for itself.
guybb3
Member
Acesneights1
New Member
I don't recall shipping being that bad when I bought it. I won't BS anyone and say you probably can't put together your own version of heaths cooling upgrade. Time and research and you can probably find the parts but I don't think your saving that much to make it worth it if your going to buy everything. I know when I priced the Hayden clutch and then a dmax blade it was about what Heath charges and I wasn't even sure I had the right parts but if you buy it from him you know you will. Just like I told a guy on another forum I belong to, you could build your own turbo master for 5$ worth of stuff but it's tha aggrivation and trial and error to get the geometry right and spring tension etc. It wasn't worth it o me, I just bought the TM ready to go and it worked fine. IN the case of my 2000 I knew it already had the better water pump and funds were tight so I did the Hayen SD clutch.
my .02
my .02
guybb3
Member
I just want to do the waterpump as I'm heading in the electric fan direction.
3500GMC
What T F, over
Cummins fan clutch
Well, I happened upon this at the local body shop. A 'Visctronic' clutch from a '06 or '07 RAM 3500 that was crashed up. Clutch was replaced because of wire damage. The 5 wires I have no idea yet as to how they control this clutch. The little hat deal where the wires go in spins independently of the rest.
But, since we're on the discussion of cooling I thought I'd throw this in. On the newer 6.5's with the spin on clutch, how big is the threads on the WP? This Visctronic measures 30mm by 1.25mm thread pitch. The mounting surface for the actual fan is a 6 bolt on 6 inch pattern. Probably 5mm threads in these. Will a Dmax fan fit? The Dodge/Cummins fan was HUGE, I'd have to slot my hood to use that.
I'd like to somehow use this on my '93 when the time comes...
Well, I happened upon this at the local body shop. A 'Visctronic' clutch from a '06 or '07 RAM 3500 that was crashed up. Clutch was replaced because of wire damage. The 5 wires I have no idea yet as to how they control this clutch. The little hat deal where the wires go in spins independently of the rest.
But, since we're on the discussion of cooling I thought I'd throw this in. On the newer 6.5's with the spin on clutch, how big is the threads on the WP? This Visctronic measures 30mm by 1.25mm thread pitch. The mounting surface for the actual fan is a 6 bolt on 6 inch pattern. Probably 5mm threads in these. Will a Dmax fan fit? The Dodge/Cummins fan was HUGE, I'd have to slot my hood to use that.
I'd like to somehow use this on my '93 when the time comes...
Attachments
Acesneights1
New Member
go to Haydens website.You can look up the fan clutch for the 6.5 99+ and it gives all that info.
3500GMC,
The 'electric' part of clutch does two things. It opens the valve replacing the thermal spring. It also sends a fan RPM signal to to controller, aka computer.
Check out the Trailblazers. They had Electro Viscus fan clutches from start of production through 2007. They were replaced in 2008- end of production 2009 MY with the old school thermal spring type.
In any case the GM programming did not work the fan enough for cold AC or keeping engine temps down on a 395 HP hot rod V8. After reprogramming the EVfan settings and sealing the stack a larger radiator is still needed for 110 + degrees and keeping thing under control.
The computer looks at AC pressure (with a sensor), engine RPM, Fan RPM and ECT to decide how much to turn on the valve. Then it drives a solid state relay with a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal to open the valve in the fan clutch. It also has a turn on delay of 2 min after engine start and a kick out program for higher RPM (like when you floor it from a light) to prevent running the fan too fast, where it is not efficient. The valve is open or shut - does not stay half open like the spring units do. So the computer uses PWM to open and close the valve several times a second, like fuel injectors, to control the fan speed/slip.
When done right your sole advantage is a faster turn on response time to engine heating up or AC load. Esp AC turning on when the vehicle is first started - the engine radiator cools down the air, thermal spring fan stays off, and condenser gets really hot. The EV fan can be at full speed within 2 min of engine start with full AC load and a cold engine! Thus colder AC in 117 degree weather.
Good luck on finding a controller for the fan. You could experiment with a variable speed electric fan controller. Maybe they make a controller for it? Ask the manufactures of these type clutches... there are more than 3 companies.
Even GM gave up on them for the 2008 LMM's and removed them from the Trailblazer lineup. Cost and complexity had to be the reason. Further the :mad2: bad programming netting you no more performance out of it then the 5 cent spring buried it.
However after reprogramming the one on my Trailblazer SS this is the best of both worlds - instant turn on control and the airflow only a clutched fan can get you. I have cold AC just after start up and after 3-4 min at idle - when it is 117 out. A claim other owners with efans or factory setups can't make. Of course I also have the loudest fan too...
The cost of BH's complete kit is the same as just a new EV clutch from a dealer! (Wholesale) So you are a pioneer in this effort, but it will be cost prohibitive.
The 'electric' part of clutch does two things. It opens the valve replacing the thermal spring. It also sends a fan RPM signal to to controller, aka computer.
Check out the Trailblazers. They had Electro Viscus fan clutches from start of production through 2007. They were replaced in 2008- end of production 2009 MY with the old school thermal spring type.
In any case the GM programming did not work the fan enough for cold AC or keeping engine temps down on a 395 HP hot rod V8. After reprogramming the EVfan settings and sealing the stack a larger radiator is still needed for 110 + degrees and keeping thing under control.
The computer looks at AC pressure (with a sensor), engine RPM, Fan RPM and ECT to decide how much to turn on the valve. Then it drives a solid state relay with a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal to open the valve in the fan clutch. It also has a turn on delay of 2 min after engine start and a kick out program for higher RPM (like when you floor it from a light) to prevent running the fan too fast, where it is not efficient. The valve is open or shut - does not stay half open like the spring units do. So the computer uses PWM to open and close the valve several times a second, like fuel injectors, to control the fan speed/slip.
When done right your sole advantage is a faster turn on response time to engine heating up or AC load. Esp AC turning on when the vehicle is first started - the engine radiator cools down the air, thermal spring fan stays off, and condenser gets really hot. The EV fan can be at full speed within 2 min of engine start with full AC load and a cold engine! Thus colder AC in 117 degree weather.
Good luck on finding a controller for the fan. You could experiment with a variable speed electric fan controller. Maybe they make a controller for it? Ask the manufactures of these type clutches... there are more than 3 companies.
Even GM gave up on them for the 2008 LMM's and removed them from the Trailblazer lineup. Cost and complexity had to be the reason. Further the :mad2: bad programming netting you no more performance out of it then the 5 cent spring buried it.
However after reprogramming the one on my Trailblazer SS this is the best of both worlds - instant turn on control and the airflow only a clutched fan can get you. I have cold AC just after start up and after 3-4 min at idle - when it is 117 out. A claim other owners with efans or factory setups can't make. Of course I also have the loudest fan too...
The cost of BH's complete kit is the same as just a new EV clutch from a dealer! (Wholesale) So you are a pioneer in this effort, but it will be cost prohibitive.
3500GMC
What T F, over
Did just that. '00 6.5 WP pilot is listed as M36 x 2.0... And the fan bolt circle is 3.81" Shuks darn it.
Now there's a challenge! Hmmm. I guess first it has to fit a 6.5 WP, huh? It may still be do-able. I like the idea of total fan control. The clutch pictured was a freebie.
Don't let that stop you. There are several EV clutches out there. The Trailblazer Clutch is thread on and runs a 21" fan. On the SS fourms you could get a EV clutch with fan still on it used for $50.00 or free with shipping from efan converts...
Keeping the wires out of the fan and getting control of the EV clutch will be your biggest challenge. I predict it will be on/off without some sort of feedback from it's RPM to control it.