6.9 IDI no start

[iamdave0887]

6.9s and 6.5/6.2s use same glows. Pressure in the crankcase is a bad sign. My advice before going any further is a compression test. Then go from there. Trust me..ETHER BAD !!! I just spent 500$ this AM for a new head for my skidsteer cause I got lazy and used it instead of putting the space heater under it.

Ether's for tires not engines. ):h

Still love that video when the tire jumps off the ground.

 

[Acesneights1]

Exactly...If there is any question what ether "can" do to a motor go here..

 

[BigBlueChevy]

Wow. Thanks guys. Seriously. All of you the input is great :thumbsup:

There is not a drop of smoke coming out of either of the tailpipes. nothing. Nada. Yet after a few spins of the motor, the air smells of ether... And since the oil fill tube is blowing oil immediately after cranking begins, with no smoke out the tailpipe, it sounds to me like the compression is going straight to the crankcase.

I keep telling him ether is bad for the engine. but his answer is usually either "there's nothing I can do" or "so how much would a set of glow plugs cost." Then we don't run into each other for a few weeks or so. and the same conversation occurs. Great guy, but stubborn lol

Are the 6.9 and 6.2/6.5 glows really interchangeable? I have my old set from Big Blue sitting on my work bench at home and they still work. Perhaps I can attempt to pull the old ones and swap those in to try and get something to work. I'm going to try either Friday or Saturday to tackle this truck again. Actually focus on it instead of "oh i'm passing by the yard lemme see if I can get it going"

Then I'll be able to get you guys the verdict on whether this motor is dead meat or just being stupid. Plus I can play with the New Holland motor a little since the axle swap is done man oh man do I have plans for that thing

 

[Acesneights1]

I did a thread either here or on the old site about it. To my knowledge they are. I know I had a set of 60gs from a mid 80s ford Van with a 6.9 I had bought and never installed and I put them in my Tahoe. Were exactly the same.

 

[iamdave0887]

6.9s and 6.5/6.2s use same glows. Pressure in the crankcase is a bad sign. My advice before going any further is a compression test. Then go from there. Trust me..ETHER BAD !!! I just spent 500$ this AM for a new head for my skidsteer cause I got lazy and used it instead of putting the space heater under it.

My buddies 6.9s glowplugs looked different than the glowplugs than my 6.5. Granted all i saw was the head of the GP and the flag terminal, which is a tad wider by the looks of things.

His was an 84, which i believe was the first year. I'll pull a 6.9 GP today just for reference against a 6.2/6.5 GP for my own reference just for the hell of it. Have to buy some Duraterms anyways. Damn 60Gs and their long heat up time.

 

[Acesneights1]

I can tell you I used 60gs in my 6.9 Other than that I am not sure.

 

[iamdave0887]

I got pictures of a 6.9 GP(Bosch # 80024) and a 6.5/6.2 GP(Bosch # 80034). They look like they'd work. Not doubting you at all Kenny.

6.9 GP on the bottom. 6.5/6.2 GP on the top.

The threads look to be the same. *shrugs*


Only different seems to be the spade terminal on the 6.9 GP is larger.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

The glow plugs from the FORD and GM will physically interchange, but they are different voltages. GM uses 11 volt glows, and FORD uses 6 volt plugs. That big metal resistor that many remove through the years drops the voltage down to 6 volts and is also part of how the glow plug timer works. If you put GM glow plugs in you will get short glow plug times and crappy starts. Only use BERU/MOTORCRAFT glow plugs in the 6.9/7.3L as well as they are designed to NOT swell up and break off. The breaking glow plugs is an all to common issue on those engines if you go to a FORD forum and read through a bit. And ether will destroy a glow plug tip in one QUICK, which is probably what happened to the one in question. They say most broken tips result in a nice sunroof in the piston dome on the 6.9/7.3L's.

 

[Acesneights1]

Like I said I wasn't sure. I had a brand new set left over from a 6.9 I had and I put them in my Tahoe and they seemed to work fine. when I had a thread about it no one seemed sure so the box said ac delco 60g .Who knows they may have been the wrong ones for the Ford.Of course the actual original piint to this was whether a 6.2/6.5 compressin tester would work on a 6.9 and this tells me it would work fine.

 

[BigBlueChevy]

Well, no compression test required. Went back and hit the motor at the yard today like I had never seen it before. Looks like the IP is shot. It appears it conviently crapped out RIGHT AFTER I shut it off in my driveway that night. Weird...

Anyway, had my brother sit in the cab while I diagnosed. The IP isn't spraying a drop of fuel from any of the high pressure lines. Which explains the no smoke from the tailpipes. Fuel present at the fuel water separator, fuel PRESSURE at the mechanical pump. Pressure after the fuel filter.

Guess I better let the boss know his truck can live again If I replace the IP.

 

[iamdave0887]

Well, no compression test required. Went back and hit the motor at the yard today like I had never seen it before. Looks like the IP is shot. It appears it conviently crapped out RIGHT AFTER I shut it off in my driveway that night. Weird...

Anyway, had my brother sit in the cab while I diagnosed. The IP isn't spraying a drop of fuel from any of the high pressure lines. Which explains the no smoke from the tailpipes. Fuel present at the fuel water separator, fuel PRESSURE at the mechanical pump. Pressure after the fuel filter.

Guess I better let the boss know his truck can live again If I replace the IP.

I"d change the GPs too while your at it if you can get them out. Enough of your bosses "Ether Nonsense." He's lucky he hasn't killed it by now. He shouldn't push his luck IMO.

 

[Acesneights1]

Hope the engine is worth an IP from the abuse it has seen. 6.9 was a good engine. Alot of the 1st gen 7.3s were junk due to some sort of casting metal problem . The blocks basically reacted with the antifreeze if it became the least bit acidic and rotted out. I've heard of people using good additives and regualr antifreeze flush and change to avoid it. Supposedly the CAT additive works good. Never owned a 7.3 but had a few 6.9s. IP's were generally only good for a 100k or so and that was pre ULSD.

 

[BigBlueChevy]

I pulled the IP along with the injectors lines yesterday. Only took 2 hours and the biggest pain was finding a 12 point 5/16" wrench. One thing is for sure. I love the tilt hoods. The ability to basically climb into the engine bay and have all that room around you is priceless. You climb in and the engine is right there. No fenders or grill to reach over.

I gave the boss the IP an hes bringing it to his diesel mechanic for the verdict. I agree with you guys. I'm going to try and push him to install new glow plugs. while everything is easy to get too. Even if it means I have to use my old 6.5 plugs since they seem to be compatible and just run a separate circuit for them to get 12 volts.


Why people have to be so stubborn I'll never know.

 

[jerrymp]

Some of the 86 and early 87 6.9s had block cracking issues. Like the 6.5, some survived and some did not. If you have one from that era and no cracks yet, then it ain't gonna crack at this point. T'was a weakness in the block near the block heater as I recall. Aces is talking about cavitation. Yep, its a problem endemic to all 6.9 and 7.3 blocks, even the newer ones. But was easily dealt with by regular PM to the coolant.

Regarding engine access, IIRC some company made a platform that stood over the front of the engine bay/radiator area that let you basically lie on your stomach while working on the motor. I made one out of wood.

Granpa don't do that xxxx nomore.

 

[BigBlueChevy]

Some of the 86 and early 87 6.9s had block cracking issues. Like the 6.5, some survived and some did not. If you have one from that era and no cracks yet, then it ain't gonna crack at this point. T'was a weakness in the block near the block heater as I recall. Aces is talking about cavitation. Yep, its a problem endemic to all 6.9 and 7.3 blocks, even the newer ones. But was easily dealt with by regular PM to the coolant.

Regarding engine access, IIRC some company made a platform that stood over the front of the engine bay/radiator area that let you basically lie on your stomach while working on the motor. I made one out of wood.

Granpa don't do that xxxx nomore.

well this is already "new" motor that was dropped in. He had another diesel mechanic do the rebuild for him and install the "new" motor. I don't know much about the rebuild, but I don't like how he did it. There's crap everywhere, the glow plugs went bad real quick, and it seems like he half-assed the job. I don't like the quality of his work(and neither did my boss apparently)

I figured somebody had made something like that, but after playing with the international I have a feeling that when it comes time for me drop the new Holland motor into Big Blue I'm going to design a tilt hood. Not only would it be pretty cool, but it will make working on the motor a snap. Especially one that is a wee bit bigger than the old one

 

[Acesneights1]

Glow plugs will be ruined with a single shot of ether.

 

[BigBlueChevy]

Glow plugs will be ruined with a single shot of ether.

I almost makes me wonder if the glows ever even worked in the first place.

 

[iamdave0887]

IF you use your old GPs just wire in a manual controller. As long as they are 60Gs or duraterms they'll be fine. I'd also find a place to make a big sitkcer that says "USE NO ETHER!".

I did find something interesting today at the local Napa. Looks like a tank for one of the handheld torches. Says "Diesel Starting Fluid" on it. Looks like a torch "head" would thread right on. If he insists on starting it w/ drugs give him that and give the truck a little whiff of it. Would probably be safer than the ether.

 

[Acesneights1]

The Older Class 8 Trucks had ether injectors. No real difference between that and the canned stuff. IN fact I would say just the opposite. Those bottles IIRC were straight ether where as the starting fliuds of today a re a little more watered down with lubricants. They also had ether pellets. Put some of that on a rag and breathe it...

 

[BigBlueChevy]

The Older Class 8 Trucks had ether injectors. No real difference between that and the canned stuff. IN fact I would say just the opposite. Those bottles IIRC were straight ether where as the starting fliuds of today a re a little more watered down with lubricants. They also had ether pellets. Put some of that on a rag and breathe it...

You know your way to young when you've never heard of some of this stuff.:nonod::mad2: