6.5L Performance

[Josafa Xavier]

Hi Guys,
Just starting build performance my 99 Suburban , I would like to thank Mr David ([email protected]), And MR: Leroy (LeroyDiesel). They have to give me important tips ..... soon I'll share with you, as carried my project, starting with the AMG P-400 Long Block.........The changes includes: Gapless Rings- Rocker Arms- ARP Head Studs- Fluid Damper- HD Water pump- HD Fan/Clutch- Manifold Adaptor- 30X4" Mishimoto Intercooler- Mishimoto Radiator- Mishimoto oil cooler- TCI Transmission cooler- TCI Torque Converter, Marine Injectors- Fuel pump Walpro- Dual alternator- HX40W Turbo- 4 "Exhaust ..... Suggestion are welcome!!!

 

[ak diesel driver]

sounds like a fun project

 

[Josafa Xavier]

sounds like a fun project

Thank you

 

[WarWagon]

The TCI converter a triple disc lockup clutch? It it a higher RPM stall?

I find 2400 RPM stall is snappy around town unloaded as it puts the engine into the large turbo powerband off the line.

The Triple disc lockup allows 'lugging' as factory single disc isn't strong enough to hold. Say lockup on a grade at 35 MPH. (You really should wind these engines up rather than lugging them, but, there is a time and a place to lock the TCC under 45 MPH like in town...)

Gapless rings you will like! As well as the rest of the build.

 

[6.5L]

I'm just picturing money symbols rolling by on the slot machine

 

[FellowTraveler]

In my many years w/my Burb I find the 4L80e needs to be updated w/all Sonnex updates, some billet here and there, kevlar or ceramic clutches & two (2) maybe three (3) trans coolers running AMSOIL pure synthetic fluid. GM Puts max temp in trans pan @ 157 deg. F as measured with pressure manifold/temp sensor. Temps from converter can easily be twice that depending on stall speed (higher stall more heat).

A 2nd Gen Ram Cummins IC will fit w/dual headlight conversion common custom unit has 1,917 cubic inches of core, stock has 1,188 ci core & most common under bumper is 378 ci core.

Make sure to use full 4" from airfilter to HX40w.

If your Burb was built after MAY 99 then it should already have the HD water pump so restricting the bypass to 3/8" + would be a good idea, the steel fan is good however the 6.5td HD & severe duty clutches fail to do their job w/alarming frequency so go w/MED diesel fan clutch. I run EVANS waterless coolant w/zero pressure cap on expansion tank.

Dual bypass filtration or centrifuge is a must as is aux oil cooler.

Good luck w/it!

 

[Josafa Xavier]

I'm just picturing money symbols rolling by on the slot machine

Just 2nd Wife for sure!!

 

[Josafa Xavier]

The TCI converter a triple disc lockup clutch? It it a higher RPM stall?

I find 2400 RPM stall is snappy around town unloaded as it puts the engine into the large turbo powerband off the line.

The Triple disc lockup allows 'lugging' as factory single disc isn't strong enough to hold. Say lockup on a grade at 35 MPH. (You really should wind these engines up rather than lugging them, but, there is a time and a place to lock the TCC under 45 MPH like in town...)

Gapless rings you will like! As well as the rest of the build.

The TCI converter a triple disc lockup clutch? It it a higher RPM stall?

I find 2400 RPM stall is snappy around town unloaded as it puts the engine into the large turbo powerband off the line.

The Triple disc lockup allows 'lugging' as factory single disc isn't strong enough to hold. Say lockup on

Gapless rings you will like! As well as the rest of the build.

The TCI converter a triple disc lockup clutch? It it a higher RPM stall?

I find 2400 RPM stall is snappy around town unloaded as it puts the engine into the large turbo powerband off the line.

The Triple disc lockup allows 'lugging' as factory single disc isn't strong enough to hold. Say lockup on a grade at 35 MPH. (You really should wind these engines up rather than lugging them, but, there is a time and a place to lock the TCC under 45 MPH like in town...)

Gapless rings you will like! As well as the rest of the build.

Thanks for the tip! ........You know about this Torque Converter?......sku-242916-4L80E MAXIMIZER STREET TORQUE CONVERTER, 1800/2000 STALL

 

[Josafa Xavier]

In my many years w/my Burb I find the 4L80e needs to be updated w/all Sonnex updates, some billet here and there, kevlar or ceramic clutches & two (2) maybe three (3) trans coolers running AMSOIL pure synthetic fluid. GM Puts max temp in trans pan @ 157 deg. F as measured with pressure manifold/temp sensor. Temps from converter can easily be twice that depending on stall speed (higher stall more heat).

A 2nd Gen Ram Cummins IC will fit w/dual headlight conversion common custom unit has 1,917 cubic inches of core, stock has 1,188 ci core & most common under bumper is 378 ci core.

Make sure to use full 4" from airfilter to HX40w.

If your Burb was built after MAY 99 then it should already have the HD water pump so restricting the bypass to 3/8" + would be a good idea, the steel fan is good however the 6.5td HD & severe duty clutches fail to do their job w/alarming frequency so go w/MED diesel fan clutch. I run EVANS waterless coolant w/zero pressure cap on expansion tank.

Dual bypass filtration or centrifuge is a must as is aux oil cooler.

Good luck w/it!

You spoke interesting observations, including about clutchs, Thank you!

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

In my many years w/my Burb I find the 4L80e needs to be updated w/all Sonnex updates, some billet here and there, kevlar or ceramic clutches & two (2) maybe three (3) trans coolers running AMSOIL pure synthetic fluid. GM Puts max temp in trans pan @ 157 deg. F as measured with pressure manifold/temp sensor. Temps from converter can easily be twice that depending on stall speed (higher stall more heat).

A 2nd Gen Ram Cummins IC will fit w/dual headlight conversion common custom unit has 1,917 cubic inches of core, stock has 1,188 ci core & most common under bumper is 378 ci core.

Make sure to use full 4" from airfilter to HX40w.

If your Burb was built after MAY 99 then it should already have the HD water pump so restricting the bypass to 3/8" + would be a good idea, the steel fan is good however the 6.5td HD & severe duty clutches fail to do their job w/alarming frequency so go w/MED diesel fan clutch. I run EVANS waterless coolant w/zero pressure cap on expansion tank.

Dual bypass filtration or centrifuge is a must as is aux oil cooler.

Good luck w/it!

You won't find any SONNAX parts being used in my shop anymore. They make to many fixes for stuff that isn't even a problem. I'll stick to TRANSGO myself as they make products for full on problems, not just to sell stuff.

A DURAMAX intercooler will also fit in front of the radiator, and last I looked required ALOT less trimming to fit. You can run whatever headlights you want with it, but the turn signal/marker lights do require modifications as the inner bulbs will hit the IC. If you do go the DURAMAX IC route, go for a 01-05 unit. 06-10 units are more readily available, but this is due to people unloading them because the passenger side end tank is plastic and not meant to be subjected to high heat. And an 11+ IC will not fit as it is MASSIVE!

And I would run the DURAMAX 21" plastic fan blade over the 6.5's 20 steel blade. It can move ALOT more air, but does normally require some minor trimming of the fan shroud to clear it. As to fan clutches, I have had good luck with HAYDEN sever duties. Mines been on my DURAMAX for almost 6 years, and still locks in no problems what so ever at the same temps as it did the day I put it on.

 

[FellowTraveler]

FERM, it's good to know the DuraMax IC fits too, TransGo is great I use the HD-2 setup, I stuck w/metal fan because of stories of the Dmax fan disintegrating or is that BS too?

 

[WarWagon]

Dual bypass filtration or centrifuge is a must as is aux oil cooler.

The game changer is the gapless rings. The OP won't need better filtration etc. as the rings will keep a lot of soot out of the oil. My UOA went from soot=4 to soot=0 after I put gapless rings in. I can still read the marks under the oil at 3000 miles on the dipstick. I have upped the oil changes from 2500 miles to 3000 miles. Prior to this 3000 mile oil changes was too long at times with ruined oil. Keep in mind HD use...

Make sure the air to oil trans cooler is 2nd in line from the transmission. This affects AC and trans temps. A IR temp gun to make sure the hottest oil goes to the radiator than the air to oil cooler.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

FERM, it's good to know the DuraMax IC fits too, TransGo is great I use the HD-2 setup, I stuck w/metal fan because of stories of the Dmax fan disintegrating or is that BS too?

Theres more than a few guys turning the DURAMAX up to 5K RPM's with stock fan blades on, and I have yet to hear of one come apart. The plastic fan blades do tend to go bad after 10 years or so, but thats just the nature of the plastic to get hard and brittle over time when exposed to heat. Sounds to me like somebody who is scared of plastic fan blades talking crap. I know mine has been to 4500 on a couple of occasions locked in.

 

[WarWagon]

Thanks for the tip! ........You know about this Torque Converter?......sku-242916-4L80E MAXIMIZER STREET TORQUE CONVERTER, 1800/2000 STALL

This is the ballpark stall speed and your results will vary among gas engines let alone a diesel. More TQ from a diesel means it will stall higher than the gas engine. It doesn't appear to have a better lockup clutch and IMO this is 1 of 2 weak points in a 4L80E. The other weak point is the manual 3rd gear over run clutch for compression braking. Rumor is that the input shaft can be snapped, but, I have ruined everything but that.

This is what I did, Note Yank will build you anything for around a $grand. Yank built this converter for me from my video and dyno numbers specific for my 6.2 hot rod. Other place may build multi disc lockup converters for the 4L80E. I didn't do anything else to the trans aside of a standard rebuild. (So spend the cash on the converter and the rest of the 4L80E doesn't need anything special.)
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/let-the-insanity-begin-time-to-yank-it.43647/

 

[FellowTraveler]

Theres more than a few guys turning the DURAMAX up to 5K RPM's with stock fan blades on, and I have yet to hear of one come apart. The plastic fan blades do tend to go bad after 10 years or so, but thats just the nature of the plastic to get hard and brittle over time when exposed to heat. Sounds to me like somebody who is scared of plastic fan blades talking crap. I know mine has been to 4500 on a couple of occasions locked in.

I figured you would know, thanks!

 

[FellowTraveler]

The game changer is the gapless rings. The OP won't need better filtration etc. as the rings will keep a lot of soot out of the oil. My UOA went from soot=4 to soot=0 after I put gapless rings in. I can still read the marks under the oil at 3000 miles on the dipstick. I have upped the oil changes from 2500 miles to 3000 miles. Prior to this 3000 mile oil changes was too long at times with ruined oil. Keep in mind HD use...

Make sure the air to oil trans cooler is 2nd in line from the transmission. This affects AC and trans temps. A IR temp gun to make sure the hottest oil goes to the radiator than the air to oil cooler.

Any data in yet on the longevity of the gapless in the 6.2/6.5 platform, or?

I'm been thinking about on a bypass for the radiator transmission liquid to liquid cooler for really hot days what do you think about that?

 

[Burning oil]

Hi Guys,
Just starting build performance my 99 Suburban , I would like to thank Mr David ([email protected]), And MR: Leroy (LeroyDiesel). They have to give me important tips ..... soon I'll share with you, as carried my project, starting with the AMG P-400 Long Block.........The changes includes: Gapless Rings- Rocker Arms- ARP Head Studs- Fluid Damper- HD Water pump- HD Fan/Clutch- Manifold Adaptor- 30X4" Mishimoto Intercooler- Mishimoto Radiator- Mishimoto oil cooler- TCI Transmission cooler- TCI Torque Converter, Marine Injectors- Fuel pump Walpro- Dual alternator- HX40W Turbo- 4 "Exhaust ..... Suggestion are welcome!!!

Hey, glad you made it to TTS. Your parts should be reaching you about now. Keep us posted on the build.
FYI if you did not know I just started carrying the Mishimoto here http://leroydiesel.com/products/mishimoto-radiator/

 

[Josafa Xavier]

G

Hey, glad you made it to TTS. Your parts should be reaching you about now. Keep us posted on the build.
FYI if you did not know I just started carrying the Mishimoto here http://leroydiesel.com/products/mishimoto-radiator/

Great....... we will be in touch!! Thank you.

 

[WarWagon]

Any data in yet on the longevity of the gapless in the 6.2/6.5 platform, or?

I'm been thinking about on a bypass for the radiator transmission liquid to liquid cooler for really hot days what do you think about that?

I suggest they last longer than standard rings - because you change rings due to blowby. I don't have any blowby. Of course you get any IDI rings hot and you ruin them. (Overheating takes the temper out of the rings and instant increase in blowby.) Further less soot in the oil = less abrasives and longer engine life.

Really hot days removing the radiator will run the transmission hotter and reduce AC performance. My trans shop plumbed in the air to oil cooler wrong and I suffered for years with high trans temps and poor AC performance. The AC condenser runs at 160 degrees on a hot day. Put a oil cooler that is 220 degrees in front of the condenser and you are heating the condenser up. I've blown off the emergency vent on the AC compressor several times due to this.

With both oil coolers going through the air to oil cooler first trans temps = 210. AC sucks.
Without the radiator in the loop trans temps = 220 and AC still sucks.
With the oil going through the radiator first and then the air to oil cooler trans temps = 180 and AC works in 121 degree weather. This is what I run now and thought I had all the time.

(AC has VOV orface for all configurations.)

Note: if you have an engine oil cooler in front of the condenser, well, the next step is it needs to be moved behind the condenser. You need air temps less than 160 degrees hitting the condenser or you are heating it up. Engine oil in the cooler is over 160 degrees... Yes head pressures are high at 160 degrees. I have not done this to my 1993 yet.

 

[Burning oil]

I completely relocated both trans and oil cooler. One under driver seat with puller fan. Trans cooler under bed with fan also. Both fans are hooked to my LP relay harness so the fans run when engine is on.