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6.5 optimizer swap, blows blue smoke on one side...

B

Ba_051

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Location
Everett, WA
Well I recently installed a 6.5 NA Diesel into my old jeep trick and finally got it fired up after 3 weeks...
It starts right up, but you can feel a slight, but very consistent "miss" at idle... The truck bounces a little at idle...
It has true dual exhaust on it and the passenger side just blows a little black smoke on acceleration... Nothing at idle or cruising and no blue or white smoke...

The drivers side however blows very little blue smoke at idle, and belches it under load or even just revving it to 1500 rpm or higher...
When I crack an injector line, there is a very apparent change in how it runs (does it on all 8 injectors)
There is no blowby at all and I just replaced the glow plugs and injectors (before I swapped it in)
Idle oil pressure is about 70 psi cold and about 25 hot...

What could cause all the blue smoke when just reving it and under load when just driving it...
 
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Blue smoke is engine oil. Do a leakdown test on the cylinders to identify piston,rings,cylinder vs valve guide,seal.

If there was there any 1 cylinder thats reaction was different from the others when bleeding injectors- this is likely your cylinder causing the miss and maybe the oil soaked culprit.

Sometimes an engine that sits a while the rings can sieze, hopefully you have an oil ring stuck and it can be unstuck and begin to seal, but you need to id which one first.

Pics of the jeep with the 6.5 would be cool...
 
Blue smoke is oil, not just engine oil, and remember diesel is fuel OIL. Where did you get the injectors at? Blue smoke could very well be an injector dribbling instead of atomizing, but it could also be the timing is off a degree or 2 causing a poor burn. Advancing the timing could help with the blue smoke, but a n/a diesel will most likely black sm9ke more advancing the timing to. And unless you freshened the engine up, you could have bad oil control rings. You would still have good power, good compression, and little blowby with bad oil control rings, but it would allow excess oil into the cylinder causing it to smoke blue.
 
If it is a bad injector dumping enough fuel to cause a smoke situation, that cylinder will be very to easy id by bleed cracking. Lets say cylinder #2 for example. Swap injector #2 with injector #1. The smoke and misfire should follow the injector and be tracked by the blue smoke on the other bank now.

I dont see the timing being it, because he is having it on one bank- timing would effect both sides.

Yes diesel is an oil, but technically, so is kerosene, gasoline, propane, etc. When too much diesel is present the smoke is usually black- like when a turbo looses boost the exhaust smokes out black- rolling coal. Blue smoke is almost always burning engine oil- most of the time valveguide seal.

When I ran my 6.2 n/a pickup exclusively on used engine oil, and would put the hammer down, a haze of blue smoke was the result. When it ran on diesel, the haze was grey to black.
 
I know on the DURAMAX, it is almost ALWAYS a bad injetor that causes blue smoke. I've seen people go into there engines, new rings, valve seals, all of it just to get it back together and have the same smoking because they re-used the injectors. My engine POURED out the blue smoke HEAVY when I had the pensacola injectors in it, swapped in a set from GM over 70K miles ago, and hasn't smoked since. Cat 3208's are FAMOUS for blue smoke if the timing is retarded just a bit. Had a friend with a pair in his 35 CABO, one engine POURED out the blue while the other just a wiff here and there. Both engines had the timing set the same, yet they both smoked differently. Had his timing reset, and no more blue smoke. Seen to many people automatically say the blue smoke is from burning oil just to have a pump or injecxtor problem in the end. Now on an unknown engine, who knows, thats why I also said oil control rings, but without knowing who's injectors, who knows. A friend of mine had a 2000 3500 that he put a brand new 6.5L in with a set of pensacola 40HP injectors(against my advice I might add), and that thing POURED out the blue smoke on startup. So to many times I've seen fuel system problems cause it even with "new" parts.
 
Well, I tried to do a compression test and I dont have a fitting for the glow plug holes so I tried something else...
Pulled the glow plugs one at a time and started it up... #3, #5, #7 all let out a loud PSSSSST on each compression stroke and it idled horribly while #1 only did a hiss and the idle didnt really change much... It still had enough pressure to blow the fuel out onto the fender...

So something is up with cylinder #1...
A stuck exhaust valve would still blow out the glow plug hole like the other cylinders and would cause a pop out the intake with the glow plug installed (which it doesnt do)
A cracked piston would cause pressure out of the oil fill and possible smoke (there is no smoke or pressure out the oil fill)...
Im guessing its something to do with the intake valve so I will start there, unless someone may have some other insight...

The injectors are Bosch injectors.
 
For compression test you need a gauge up to 500 psi.
I took an old glow plug, cut off end, then drilled out ceramic with a regular bit. Just go slow speed. Weld a threaded fitting on the end to mach threads on your tester.
What end do you have on your tester threaded or qd?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131337079082?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D53601919689_324272%26itemid%3D131337079082%26targetid%3D185501477289%26rpc%3D0.19%26rpc_upld_id%3D72659%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F131337079082%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9030746%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D239125209%26adgroupid%3D14978428809%26rlsatarget%3Daud-150920456644%3Apla-185501477289%26gclid%3DCj0KEQjw7-K7BRCkkIH3t_WwoskBEiQAD8oY3lh1TwJTg8R7dgLwslzhLhHjwZpRRtn-YZF9ZKir8fUaAmq08P8HAQ%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1056598797346&ul_noapp=true

Also check with your local auto parts stores, many have a tool rental program that is free after tools are returned.
 
If you dont have a leakdown, just use the glowplug adater to hook to your aircompressor. Youll have to fill the air tank, then shut off compressor motorr so you can hear which way air is escaping. Through the exhaust, or intake is valves. Through the oil fill tube is rings. The hard one is if you think valve guides- pulling the valve covers to hear it leaking by the valves.
 
You have 2 choices here. Diagnose the engine for compression leaks or tear it completely down to find it. This includes testing injectors. (New defective parts, dropped dirt in an injector and hung it open... New parts don't mean good parts, period!) I suggest Will's advice will save you time and money by letting you know what is wrong.

Some oddball things that can affect you is an #1 intake rocker off, bent pushrod, flat cam lobe(s) for the intake, burned exhaust valve, bent connecting rod...

So if you don't have any leak down turn the engine and watch the valves move. I didn't say just the rockers - verify the valves move and #1 moves as much as #2.

Pulling a camshaft is a different job than pulling a head.

A side note is you can hear a major compression loss on the starter as you hear it load 7 times evenly and "zip" over the bad compression cylinder.
 
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Alright, I pulled the intake and had my wife crank it over (with the IP solenoid disconnected) while i watched the intake valve. It moved as it should and the same as the rest... So i pulled the valve cover and low and behold, the exhaust side was the problem. The pushrod is gone, all i could find was the gold ball and nothing else.
 
Had one that flat spotted a roller and lost the pushrod . Guy was cheap , put a used lifter and pushrod in and down the road he went . Didn't bother to go fishing for the ' lost " parts ....
 
Putting in a used lifter and pushrod I could see, but to leave the old pushrod is just a matter of time before it takes out everything. Its either in the valley or down to the pan. Not like it has that many places to hide...
 
sctrailrider said:
There may be a reason the pushrod left, do plenty of checking when you are in there...
Click to expand...

Let me expand on the sound advice here. You are looking for why the pushrod broke or became loose enough to get out of place and then broke. For example:

Broken lifter retainer, flat cam lobe, broken valve spring, bent valve that hit bending pushrod or debris in engine, missing or broken nylon rocker retainer. I would go as far as to check the valve stem height in case the seat is worn badly or valve stem stretched. Possible on last assembly of engine it wasn't rotated by the book to tighten the rocker shafts down resulting in loose bolts or bent pushrods from the word go.

Even though you are looking at a broken pushrod I still re-suggest you do the leakdown test to make sure the exhaust valve is sealing. Simply put now is the time to pull the head if you need to to save time/labor.

So you may think the pushrod safely made it to the oil pan and will stay there? Next sub-par railroad crossing you misjudge the bump and catch your sunglasses in mid air on - that loose pushrod is bouncing around as well. If it hits the crank it can be thrown and go through the oil pan or bounce off the pan (go up) and re-enter the rotating assembly. Truth is stranger than fiction. I suggest if derbis enters the timing chain/pump gear or the oil pump/camshaft drive gear things get out of time as keys shear or chains/cams break.

It's important to find any 'missing' parts otherwise, as I already serve as bad example, you can have a second entry in the carnage thread. Of course the broken pushrod is your first entry.

At the end of the day these are just suggestions, places to look, as you are standing in front of it and have a better feel for what is going on. Knowing why something failed helps prevent it from happening again.
 
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Well I found the pushrod in the pan so that's out of there... Replaced the lifter and pushrod and engine is running good, except after 150 miles, I noticed my coolant is very dark (black or grey) and low (about 2" low in radiator). It's not oily, no trans/oil cooler in rad, and it's uniform (no separation). It looks almost sooty... No coolant in oil either, none... So it's probably a blown head gasket to go along with it.. Time to tear it down...
 
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