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‘98 6.5 TD stalled while driving and current no start

I

Indyjoy912

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Hey everyone, I’ve been searching the forum and threads trying to track down some ideas on what could be causing my issue. The truck had been starting and running great, no issues, decent power, etc. While pulling my covered trailer it threw me from 3rd gear, and locked me out of it. I had previously replaced the transmission about 4,000 miles ago so I assumed it was an issue there. I checked my wiring in the transmission, fluid levels, shut the truck off turned it back on. Got back up to 3rd made it about half a mile then it did the same thing. I was at a bad spot to pull over and wanted to get to a better location so ran about a mile further in 2nd gear and right as I was preparing to pull over the engine stalled. Haven’t gotten the truck to start since then. Towed it home and have done some troubleshooting since then.

-Found loose grounds on rear passenger side of the engine coming from the harness. Cleaned and tightened.
-Replaced glow plug relay because I noticed one of the terminals had broken.
-tested fuel shutoff solenoid.
-tested lift pump (runs while cranking).
-tried a new PMD, without harness extension on it (ensure if it works, don’t have a running 6.5 to test it on).
-loosened injectors lines to push air, don’t seem to be getting any fuel to the injectors.
-loosened glow plugs on drivers side to lower compression resistance.
-DTC p0380 still present
-no other DTC

My thoughts are either I have a bad PMD still or crankshaft position sensor? Also does 6.5 have a separate camshaft position sensor or is it done through the IP? ( might be a dumb question but I’m finding mixed results online)
 
I found the answer to my camshaft question, it is done through the optical sensor on the IP.

I saw recommendations to go ahead and check fuel filters. I pulled the filter in the valley and found some small metal particulate in it. My thoughts were if the return from the IP runs back through that filter housing then maybe the IP shelled and sent the particles back through there. I did fill up the truck not long before the initial stall, so I suppose it could’ve been in that fuel.
 
do you have a scanner to pull codes. the metal filings in the ffm came from the tank. more than likely the galvanized lining is starting to lift from the inside of the tank, Don't be too quick to condemn the IP. there are lots of things that can cause this issue. first thing is first. pull the codes and see what it's telling you.
 
Good to know, I do have a scanner and didn’t pull any codes other than p0380 “Glow Plug/Heater Circuit “A” Malfunction”.

I’ve heard the sock in the tank can get plugged and since you mention the lining there I plan on pulling that next. Isn’t there also a screen on the IP inlet? Is that on the IP? I’ve been down in the valley before but don’t remember specifically seeing it.
 
On a DS4 IP the inlet where the rubber hose supplies fuel, there is a screen under the large nut. in most cases the FFM filter will catch all of that from getting into the IP.

for your sock on the pickup tube, most of us just eliminate it completely and splice in a inline filter just in front of the tank before the lift pump.
 
the clear line goes on the IP to the steel return pipe. there is about a 6" section of 1/4" hose in an upside down U shape right in front of the IP. replace that hose with clear tubing. you can get it at any hardware store and does not need to be fuel rated. we have used that stuff and it lasts for a few years till it turns so yellow you can't see through it. using the clear tubing will tell you if you are getting air intrusion from anywhere between the IP back to the tank.
 
Indyjoy912 said:
Good to know, I do have a scanner and didn’t pull any codes other than p0380 “Glow Plug/Heater Circuit “A” Malfunction”.

I’ve heard the sock in the tank can get plugged and since you mention the lining there I plan on pulling that next. Isn’t there also a screen on the IP inlet? Is that on the IP? I’ve been down in the valley before but don’t remember specifically seeing it.
Click to expand...

So there is no codes and the trans is stuck in 2nd? what kind of scanner are you using, it might not be able to read trans codes.
 
I’m currently using ScanXL by Palmer Performance Engineering on a laptop. And you’re correct the first time I ran codes it did have transmission codes. I don’t remember the exact DTC numbers but I believe they were titled:

1-2 shift solenoid- electrical
2-3 shift solenoid- electrical

However after I fixed the grounding issue they were no longer reading. Not sure if the ground is what was causing them, or if having the batteries disconnected for a sustained period of time cleared them. since it hasn’t ran and driven again I’m not sure how to tell.
 
I would start it up and run it up and down the road staying near your house so you can still "limp" it back home and see if the trans shifts through all the gears now or stalls out. grounds are the #1 cause of problems.
 
dbrannon79 said:
I would start it up and run it up and down the road staying near your house so you can still "limp" it back home and see if the trans shifts through all the gears now or stalls out. grounds are the #1 cause of problems.
Click to expand...
Sorry, not sure if I made it clear but ever since it stalled it’s been a crank no start. That’s why I’m so confused with the problem.
 
Ok, first make sure your batteries are good and charged. connect your scanner and go into where you can read live data, find the RPM value then crank. see if the ECM is picking up an RPM signal. we need to determine if this is a fuel or sensor/wiring related issue.

you should see up around 200 RPM on crank. if all is good, then lets work on fuel.

For fuel, we need to get the clear return line installed on the IP. Then since you had the FFM open, make sure the air has been bled. there should be a screw on the filter cap that you can loosen, iirc on 98 models, you should be able to just turn the key on and the LP will run for a couple seconds. best to have a helper do the key while you crack the bleeder screw and close it up when fuel spurts out.

Once the air is out of the FFM, then we start loosening all of the injector line nuts and crank watching for fuel to start coming out of the IP lines. you only need to loosen the steel line nuts on the injectors, not completely remove them.

remember when you crank on it, it's a rule of thumb. 30 seconds crank, 30 seconds rest, 30 crank, 30 minutes rest so you don't overheat the starter. do this with the batteries hot and fully charged.

when you start to see fuel leaking from the lines, tighten up all the line nuts and it should fire up. might take more cranking and will sputter some but will straighten out and run.

these engines are simple, all they need to run is fuel. as long as the ECM sees RPM it will allow the IP to push fuel to the injectors. the only other thing that will stop it from running electrically is the PMD or the fuel shutoff solenoid, but the solenoid going fubar is rare.
 
dbrannon79 said:
Ok, first make sure your batteries are good and charged. connect your scanner and go into where you can read live data, find the RPM value then crank. see if the ECM is picking up an RPM signal. we need to determine if this is a fuel or sensor/wiring related issue.

you should see up around 200 RPM on crank. if all is good, then lets work on fuel.

For fuel, we need to get the clear return line installed on the IP. Then since you had the FFM open, make sure the air has been bled. there should be a screw on the filter cap that you can loosen, iirc on 98 models, you should be able to just turn the key on and the LP will run for a couple seconds. best to have a helper do the key while you crack the bleeder screw and close it up when fuel spurts out.

Once the air is out of the FFM, then we start loosening all of the injector line nuts and crank watching for fuel to start coming out of the IP lines. you only need to loosen the steel line nuts on the injectors, not completely remove them.

remember when you crank on it, it's a rule of thumb. 30 seconds crank, 30 seconds rest, 30 crank, 30 minutes rest so you don't overheat the starter. do this with the batteries hot and fully charged.

when you start to see fuel leaking from the lines, tighten up all the line nuts and it should fire up. might take more cranking and will sputter some but will straighten out and run.

these engines are simple, all they need to run is fuel. as long as the ECM sees RPM it will allow the IP to push fuel to the injectors. the only other thing that will stop it from running electrically is the PMD or the fuel shutoff solenoid, but the solenoid going fubar is rare.
Click to expand...
Sounds good! I appreciate the help and will check back in once I’ve done these
 
Alright so I got the clear line on the return and attempted to do the bleed process. I also got hooked up to the computer and confirmed I have avg. 200 rpm on the crank. I went through the crank cycle about 8 times with the injector lines loose (all eight) and still failed to get fuel through the lines. I was getting some fuel through the return by the end. I never got a complete no air flow in the return.

During the cranking I did get the following DTC
-P0251 Injection Pump Metering Control "A"
-P0370 Timing Reference High Resolution Signal "A"
-P0748 Pressure Control Solenoid "A"

Which means Optical Sensor issue?
 
Indyjoy912 said:
Alright so I got the clear line on the return and attempted to do the bleed process. I also got hooked up to the computer and confirmed I have avg. 200 rpm on the crank. I went through the crank cycle about 8 times with the injector lines loose (all eight) and still failed to get fuel through the lines. I was getting some fuel through the return by the end. I never got a complete no air flow in the return.

During the cranking I did get the following DTC
-P0251 Injection Pump Metering Control "A"
-P0370 Timing Reference High Resolution Signal "A"
-P0748 Pressure Control Solenoid "A"

Which means Optical Sensor issue?
Click to expand...
IDK what all of that means, there are people in here thats gotta much better clue than i so we will wait on their answers.
If You have crank cycles that are not air free on that return line then be looking for a loose connection between the fuel tank pickup tube into the fuel tank and the lift pump.
Could be something as simple and easy as a loose hose clamp.
 
Ok. First two codes tell us the ip (injection pump) is not happy with fuel situation inside, but when there is not proper fuel flow of good clean & air free fuel flowing through it- that can happen. So we set those aside for the moment because of the third code and more importantly your comment about what you saw in the clear is return line. Your description sounds like the LP is leaking back fuel to the tank and not supplying fuel right away.

I think you do not have adequate fuel supply to the ip or bad FSO. You said
“-tested fuel shutoff solenoid.
-tested lift pump (runs while cranking”
We need to know how this was done because some folks test by just listening for a sound on both.
The LP (Lift Pump) should be tested by a pressure gauge after the rubber hose ends at the ip inlet. It is done at this point to ensure not just the LP but the interior of rubber hoses in all locations are not having issues. MANY MANY ip have been replaced while good because the inside of the hose is deteriorated restricting flow and people replace both LP then ip then have same issue. The proper pressure is 8-14 psi. But as long as you have a couple pounds- it should be able to start and idle ok. When it goes into the negative it causes major damage to the ip & imo is the #1 cause of premature failure of ip. For this reason and speed of diagnosis my long term suggestion for owners is a metal T fitting attached to the ip inlet acter rubber hose ends. The 1/8” port on the T fitting is for a fuel pressure sensor and a permanent mounted gauge in the dash so you see it while driving.

At this point- run a jumper wire to the LP so it is on constant and read the pressure.

You are not getting fuel flowing through all the time like you should.
The FSO (Fuel Shut-off Solenoid) is in question at this point. It could be the electricity is not feeding it properly, or it is not operating properly, or fuel supply to the ip is inadequate.

Your FSO works like this: there is a plunger on the end inside the ip. Key off it sticks out and stops the fuel from leaving the ip. This restriction does not allow new fuel in and shuts off the engine. Pinching the 1/4” return line closed does the same thing. If you ever turn the key off and the engine won’t die- go pinch the 1/4” hose and the engine will cut off.
When the key is on, the plunger in the solenoid retracts allowing fuel flow through the ip and out the injector lines at roughly 4,500 psi- so never put your fingers infront of the metal injector lines.

Removing the FSO is done by unplugging the wire and unscrewing it like a bolt.
With it out & the key on, fuel will pump out that opening. If you unscrew it part way, a little can leak out, but will allow fuel flow through and start the engine-
Also by removing it- you can turn the key on and see it retract- but the LP should pump a bunch of fuel out the threaded hole when this occurs so unplugging the LP first is advisable- unless you want a messy 2 for 1 diagnosis.

You can remove the FSO place the body (not threads or plunger) on the negative battery post and add a small jumper wire from the positive post to the connector and see it activate. Those are the basic versions of testing it most folks do… but seeing it work in place is simply - turn on the key, jumper the LP and watch fuel flow through the clear 1/4” line & knowing you have proper inlet fuel pressure- tells you all that is working properly.

Anytime there is anything in question with the engine running right- step one from GM is clear line test and step 2 is fuel pressure at the ip. So I harp on gauge In dash & leaving the return line clear. Fuel-line.com sells clear line that is rated fuel line to withstand the ethanol in our diesel- it isn’t rated for things rubbing against it so just be intelligent enough when installing it to not let it rub anything. The stuff for the hardware store lasts a few years and needs replacing. Either one works.

Please describe your testing of these in more detail. You need to be 100% about these before going down the rabbit hole you are faced with next.
 
Oh- posting videos of testing, seeing fuel flow through clear line is best option. People use YouTube, bitchute, etc then post a link here.
Or take 30 second video and text it to one or some of us. We can pm phone numbers- don’t ever put that in open forum.
 
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