‘98 6.5 TD stalled while driving and current no start

[Indyjoy912]

Hey everyone, I’ve been searching the forum and threads trying to track down some ideas on what could be causing my issue. The truck had been starting and running great, no issues, decent power, etc. While pulling my covered trailer it threw me from 3rd gear, and locked me out of it. I had previously replaced the transmission about 4,000 miles ago so I assumed it was an issue there. I checked my wiring in the transmission, fluid levels, shut the truck off turned it back on. Got back up to 3rd made it about half a mile then it did the same thing. I was at a bad spot to pull over and wanted to get to a better location so ran about a mile further in 2nd gear and right as I was preparing to pull over the engine stalled. Haven’t gotten the truck to start since then. Towed it home and have done some troubleshooting since then.

-Found loose grounds on rear passenger side of the engine coming from the harness. Cleaned and tightened.
-Replaced glow plug relay because I noticed one of the terminals had broken.
-tested fuel shutoff solenoid.
-tested lift pump (runs while cranking).
-tried a new PMD, without harness extension on it (ensure if it works, don’t have a running 6.5 to test it on).
-loosened injectors lines to push air, don’t seem to be getting any fuel to the injectors.
-loosened glow plugs on drivers side to lower compression resistance.
-DTC p0380 still present
-no other DTC

My thoughts are either I have a bad PMD still or crankshaft position sensor? Also does 6.5 have a separate camshaft position sensor or is it done through the IP? ( might be a dumb question but I’m finding mixed results online)

 

[Indyjoy912]

I found the answer to my camshaft question, it is done through the optical sensor on the IP.

I saw recommendations to go ahead and check fuel filters. I pulled the filter in the valley and found some small metal particulate in it. My thoughts were if the return from the IP runs back through that filter housing then maybe the IP shelled and sent the particles back through there. I did fill up the truck not long before the initial stall, so I suppose it could’ve been in that fuel.

 

[dbrannon79]

do you have a scanner to pull codes. the metal filings in the ffm came from the tank. more than likely the galvanized lining is starting to lift from the inside of the tank, Don't be too quick to condemn the IP. there are lots of things that can cause this issue. first thing is first. pull the codes and see what it's telling you.

 

[Will L.]

clear line on ip return tells lots of stories- contamination being one.

 

[Indyjoy912]

Good to know, I do have a scanner and didn’t pull any codes other than p0380 “Glow Plug/Heater Circuit “A” Malfunction”.

I’ve heard the sock in the tank can get plugged and since you mention the lining there I plan on pulling that next. Isn’t there also a screen on the IP inlet? Is that on the IP? I’ve been down in the valley before but don’t remember specifically seeing it.

 

[Indyjoy912]

clear line on ip return tells lots of stories- contamination being one.

I’ll get on that! Is that the return from the injectors to the IP or from the IP to the fuel filter manager?

 

[dbrannon79]

On a DS4 IP the inlet where the rubber hose supplies fuel, there is a screen under the large nut. in most cases the FFM filter will catch all of that from getting into the IP.

for your sock on the pickup tube, most of us just eliminate it completely and splice in a inline filter just in front of the tank before the lift pump.

 

[dbrannon79]

the clear line goes on the IP to the steel return pipe. there is about a 6" section of 1/4" hose in an upside down U shape right in front of the IP. replace that hose with clear tubing. you can get it at any hardware store and does not need to be fuel rated. we have used that stuff and it lasts for a few years till it turns so yellow you can't see through it. using the clear tubing will tell you if you are getting air intrusion from anywhere between the IP back to the tank.

 

[dbrannon79]

Good to know, I do have a scanner and didn’t pull any codes other than p0380 “Glow Plug/Heater Circuit “A” Malfunction”.

I’ve heard the sock in the tank can get plugged and since you mention the lining there I plan on pulling that next. Isn’t there also a screen on the IP inlet? Is that on the IP? I’ve been down in the valley before but don’t remember specifically seeing it.

So there is no codes and the trans is stuck in 2nd? what kind of scanner are you using, it might not be able to read trans codes.

 

[Indyjoy912]

I’m currently using ScanXL by Palmer Performance Engineering on a laptop. And you’re correct the first time I ran codes it did have transmission codes. I don’t remember the exact DTC numbers but I believe they were titled:

1-2 shift solenoid- electrical
2-3 shift solenoid- electrical

However after I fixed the grounding issue they were no longer reading. Not sure if the ground is what was causing them, or if having the batteries disconnected for a sustained period of time cleared them. since it hasn’t ran and driven again I’m not sure how to tell.

 

[dbrannon79]

I would start it up and run it up and down the road staying near your house so you can still "limp" it back home and see if the trans shifts through all the gears now or stalls out. grounds are the #1 cause of problems.

 

[Indyjoy912]

I would start it up and run it up and down the road staying near your house so you can still "limp" it back home and see if the trans shifts through all the gears now or stalls out. grounds are the #1 cause of problems.

Sorry, not sure if I made it clear but ever since it stalled it’s been a crank no start. That’s why I’m so confused with the problem.

 

[dbrannon79]

Ok, first make sure your batteries are good and charged. connect your scanner and go into where you can read live data, find the RPM value then crank. see if the ECM is picking up an RPM signal. we need to determine if this is a fuel or sensor/wiring related issue.

you should see up around 200 RPM on crank. if all is good, then lets work on fuel.

For fuel, we need to get the clear return line installed on the IP. Then since you had the FFM open, make sure the air has been bled. there should be a screw on the filter cap that you can loosen, iirc on 98 models, you should be able to just turn the key on and the LP will run for a couple seconds. best to have a helper do the key while you crack the bleeder screw and close it up when fuel spurts out.

Once the air is out of the FFM, then we start loosening all of the injector line nuts and crank watching for fuel to start coming out of the IP lines. you only need to loosen the steel line nuts on the injectors, not completely remove them.

remember when you crank on it, it's a rule of thumb. 30 seconds crank, 30 seconds rest, 30 crank, 30 minutes rest so you don't overheat the starter. do this with the batteries hot and fully charged.

when you start to see fuel leaking from the lines, tighten up all the line nuts and it should fire up. might take more cranking and will sputter some but will straighten out and run.

these engines are simple, all they need to run is fuel. as long as the ECM sees RPM it will allow the IP to push fuel to the injectors. the only other thing that will stop it from running electrically is the PMD or the fuel shutoff solenoid, but the solenoid going fubar is rare.

 

[Indyjoy912]

Ok, first make sure your batteries are good and charged. connect your scanner and go into where you can read live data, find the RPM value then crank. see if the ECM is picking up an RPM signal. we need to determine if this is a fuel or sensor/wiring related issue.

you should see up around 200 RPM on crank. if all is good, then lets work on fuel.

For fuel, we need to get the clear return line installed on the IP. Then since you had the FFM open, make sure the air has been bled. there should be a screw on the filter cap that you can loosen, iirc on 98 models, you should be able to just turn the key on and the LP will run for a couple seconds. best to have a helper do the key while you crack the bleeder screw and close it up when fuel spurts out.

Once the air is out of the FFM, then we start loosening all of the injector line nuts and crank watching for fuel to start coming out of the IP lines. you only need to loosen the steel line nuts on the injectors, not completely remove them.

remember when you crank on it, it's a rule of thumb. 30 seconds crank, 30 seconds rest, 30 crank, 30 minutes rest so you don't overheat the starter. do this with the batteries hot and fully charged.

when you start to see fuel leaking from the lines, tighten up all the line nuts and it should fire up. might take more cranking and will sputter some but will straighten out and run.

these engines are simple, all they need to run is fuel. as long as the ECM sees RPM it will allow the IP to push fuel to the injectors. the only other thing that will stop it from running electrically is the PMD or the fuel shutoff solenoid, but the solenoid going fubar is rare.

Sounds good! I appreciate the help and will check back in once I’ve done these