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Head studs - what will stop the leak

The order I listed them in are in order of the highest sucess rate according to Permatex in use of wet holes. (This isn’t just a gm diesel issue.)

This is for the end of the stud going into the block.
The nut on top of the head needs the lubricant on threads for proper torque. No sealant, thread locker etc on the nut threads- it will alter torque.

6.2 and 6.5 same torque spec for heads.
 
Will L. said:
The order I listed them in are in order of the highest sucess rate according to Permatex in use of wet holes. (This isn’t just a gm diesel issue.)

This is for the end of the stud going into the block.
The nut on top of the head needs the lubricant on threads for proper torque. No sealant, thread locker etc on the nut threads- it will alter torque.

6.2 and 6.5 same torque spec for heads.
Click to expand...

On the torque, I have seen varied reports for torque values used with success. From 90 - 130 ft./lbs.
I personally went with 12o ft./lbs. with success.
Which makes me wonder just how important the exact torque really is.

The reason I say this is that I did use the lube on the nut threads but I also used sealant on the bottom of the washer as a last resort effort to combat leakage, again with success.
 
So having the heads off often... Do I have to remove and reinstall the studs each time with the other listed sealants? Clearly head removal is going to break the chamfered "oring" of the stuff.

In my bad luck I have had luck of not scuffing a cylinder. And with red threadlocker there wasn't hope or a reason to try and remove them anyway.

Did they mention how long this stuff lasts in years?
 
WarWagon said:
So having the heads off often... Do I have to remove and reinstall the studs each time with the other listed sealants? Clearly head removal is going to break the chamfered "oring" of the stuff.

In my bad luck I have had luck of not scuffing a cylinder. And with red threadlocker there wasn't hope or a reason to try and remove them anyway.

Did they mention how long this stuff lasts in years?
Click to expand...

I think you're dealing with measuring in half-life here, WW.
 
Stop the confusion on torque values! It varies depending on what lube you are using on ARP Studs. (N/A: TTY GM Bolts be covered elsewhere.) You want to use the ARP Moly Lube. period. There are studies of the torque changing if you use 30 weight oil and have to re-install the heads several times. ARP's stuff does not experience the torque changes after repeated uses.

2009 install instructions that may have changed due to wet hole leaking that has come to their attention. Do not use ARP Thread sealer as it will leak.

arp.jpg
 
WarWagon said:
Stop the confusion on torque values! It varies depending on what lube you are using on ARP Studs. (N/A: TTY GM Bolts be covered elsewhere.) You want to use the ARP Moly Lube. period. There are studies of the torque changing if you use 30 weight oil and have to re-install the heads several times. ARP's stuff does not experience the torque changes after repeated uses.

2009 install instructions that may have changed due to wet hole leaking that has come to their attention. Do not use ARP Thread sealer as it will leak.

View attachment 55717
Click to expand...
Agreed over priced sealer i used that stuff on a 383. And it was junk i used black permatex and now with 130,000 miles no leaks
 
So the saga continues...
I didn’t want to post anything about this until everything was “settled” and here is why...

I just got a call back from Felpro. One of the engineers went over the info after he got back. He said do NOT get rtv, anaerobic, high tack, copper coat, etc on their permatorque head gasket surfaces.
There is a priporitory clear teflon that is heat actived on the gasket which ‘COULD’ react chemically causing degradation.

He said that information should have been given the first time by the regular people on the tech line, and all12 or 13 of them will be reinstructed about that. Out of curiosity I called the techline number and asked- and that guy knew clearly not to do it.
They said just have gasket partnway up on studs & remove any excess that comes up out of the hole and clean before sliding gasket all the way down on studs.

Idk about victor reinze or mahle. Think I will call them to find out any adverse long term reactions.
 
Alright..
Mahle -Rob in the tech department knows the 6.5s! Haha. He says “lot of you guys still trying to make the old technology engine run with the new stuff huh?” :)

Both anerobics and rtv are ok on their gaskets, but he says dont get it where it is in the sealing surface. Obviously wont withstand compression areas. Around the dead bolt hole area is perfectly fine. They do not use the teflon felpro does.

He didn’t know the new oat and goat coolants were the cause of tty bolt sealant failures. He knew they tried to get bolt supplier to change back in 2000ish but didn’t know why. Over at felpro, 1 guy did and 1 didn’t. Both get their bolts from same supplier as supplied GM btw. Anyways- more proof of what I learned in the fleet- antifreeze- GREEN IAT ONLY!
“Sometimes old tech and new tech just dont mix”. Rob and I at same time- haha

@Twisted Steel Performance - SEEMS LIKE someone saying to use Mahle gaskets did his homework ahead of the class like usual..

So these felpro gaskets go with the tty bolts on my shelf a little longer...
 
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Will, thank you for all the time and effort in getting all this information, I know it took some doing to make it all happen!

One thing in addition to the things that I learned here that I am going to do since it's painless and risk free is the suggestion that I got from my machine shop with many ARP head studs under their belt... I'm going to remove the black oxide coating on the block side threads to help the sealant to adhere and seal better.
 
Will L. said:
@Twisted Steel Performance - SEEMS LIKE someone saying to use Mahle gaskets did his homework ahead of the class like usual.
Click to expand...

I do my best to give accurate info all the time, do I know everything...heck no, and don't want to give that impression anytime. With that said, I have a little experience in other fuel burning power plants and a lot of what works their can be brought into a "all but lost" engine like ours.

Yes I'm a vendor here and am glad to provide products in exchange for money LOL... but I don't revolve around the all mighty buck, I like StarTrec, go where no one else has...
 
Yes, if Mahle makes it- it is qood quality.
I have a habit of felpro or victor reinz because it is easier to find on west coast. Silly thing is it’s cheaper, so more available. But good quality. I don’t always buy the more expensive thing if a couple bucks less is the same quality.

There are felpros on my shelf that will wait for a low boost build and TTY bolts. But unless Chris or Leroy sell Mahle, (Do you guys?) Rock auto is about to sell me a set, i have bought them from them before.

And- Support the daggum vendors even if they are a couple bucks more (currently they are cheaper on most stuff). If they quit making money, we loose forum and we all loose knowledge and help when needed.
 
Gonna ask as reminder - anyone with the ARP paper for recommended torque spec on main studs- please put a pic here so all this stuff is on 1 thread. It will be a while yet before I order my set.

On the sealers, just like torque specs- I like to say show what spec is. Personal deviation is up to the individual. Me- head studs get tightened not snug. Mains get snug not tightened for my belief of whats better.

Chris mentioned he uses spray on copper coat iirc on head gaskets. He has had great success doing it. All 4 mfrs I spoke to (AC Delco also) said put them on dry, not extra sealers of any kind-on compression area especially.

But just like Hanker (loctite) and permatex said- WarWagons red would have eventually given out-

Idk about either of those gus being wrong. They sure had damn good results compared to the pro of ARP’s first choice.

And a big thanks to Chris also on this. I was going to just use blue loctite, then he shared his technique, and I have never had The Right Stuff (black) fail me, under any use, ever. Seals coolant, seals oil, stops vibration, how did I not try that before in these. I did on light weight engine head bolts!

Even though I haven’t been putting wrench to bolt on my build very much, I been “working” on it about 50 hours a week last few months.

Two materials left unanswered yet- Victor Reinz gasket chemical interactions- and Permatex is “field testing” Seal&Lock which sounds like it is designed for this. A thread locker that seals oils, coolants, etc.?!? But they cant do any in-house testing. They sell it on the market and are awaiting responses from industry, racers, etc. All the other stuff all testing is complete- but I am not thier guinnepig. Haha
 
Rodd said:
This is a great thread for head studs. Is any of this viable using head bolts?
Click to expand...

Nope. Applying material to the threads of the tty bolts changes the applied force when torquing. So being able to properly torque the bolts would prove difficult.

The design of the bolts means you don’t need to add more sealant, provided you use iat coolant.

If you have a n/a engine or keep boost stock, there really is nothing wrong with the tty bolts, provided quality gaskets are used.
 
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